Another whinge about Forestry Tas

[ILUVSWTAS]

So a mate of mine broke his ankle on a walk yesterday, they wouldnt send a chopper to him because he was on a road.... I dont know the full story as I wasnt there, but what im hearing is they couldnt get the correct key off FT to open the gate. They had to bring in a bulldozer to clear a path around the gate so they could get a vehicle past.

Am I the only one thinking this is incredible slack and bad form. Surely the keys must be kept nearby, or the SES needs a master key for situations like this??

The poor *&%$#! was forced to wait on the road for hours and hours in agony for them to finally get to him.

[gayet]

Perhaps the walkers should have had a key, or advised FT they were going to be in there? I don't know the protocol of this but surely there is a responsibility on both sides? And I do not mean to suggest your mate was solely at fault and so should not complain. Far from it, just that a little bit of forethought (easy to say with hindsight) may have made it easier for all.... I agree, resuce authorities should have access when needed, without having to resort to bulldozers to get round a gate!

[ILUVSWTAS]

Thats a good point Gaye, we usually always do inform FT/landowners when we are going to access areas, and if it's a long road walk or drive, we will get a key. BUT if it's only a few k's, we just walk the road as organising a key and leaving the deposit money is sometimes a pain in the backside.

However, as you said the authorities should be able to get instant access.

[Taurë-rana]

As I suggested on FB but might get more comments here, re the helicopter ride, what are the rules for setting off a PLB when you have friends who can walk out and get help I wonder? Sounds like it would have been better for all concerned if a helicopter had come in to pick the person involved up, and it would have been paid for by the federal government rather than the state.

[Azza]

Okay lets not get too carried away..

I was actually at the scene, rather than people passing judgement and making assumptions lets clarify a few things first.

The land owner had been contacted and a key was obtained. Unfortunately it was the wrong set of keys.

Descending the boulder field he gotten separated from the rest of the party, he does tend to do a lot of solo walking so he was just going his own way.
And yes, there is plenty that can be said about that. At the bottom of the boulder field he broke his ankle.
He managed splint his leg and drag himself ~ 400m through the scrub to the road, where he activated his spot device.
A short while later we found him on the road. We waited for a hour but decided that we needed to go out for help, because there was no guarantee that help was on its way.

I got out and made contact with the police, who were aware of the beacon being activated. My understanding was that because of the location being close proximity to a road they were sending out a vehicle and had an ambulance on standby. I gave them his GPS position - which was very difficult as they really didn't seems to any idea. The police who had been dispatched to investigate suddenly appeared while I was still on the phone, we had a chat, they went off to get the keys from the Farm Manager. Somehow between the Farm Manager, Police Operations etc. they got mixed up and were given the wrong set of keys. Police Operations sent the ambulance to the wrong location. At this stage I'd driven back out with the police and were trying unsuccessfully to open the gate. The Farm Manager - kept insisting the keys were correct, but wouldn't come out to the location. I think he thought we were somewhere else, all of this was being communicated through the police radio room.

The neighbour came over and offered to clear a path next to the gate with his tractor as it was just getting ridiculous by that stage. He been out there 4 hours, the temperature was 4 degrees and getting colder. It was at the stage where we were considering pushing the ambulance stretcher the few km down to road to try and get him.
Failing that the helicopter was next. Basically they weren't sending the chopper unless it was confirmed as life threatening.
We were well prepared - he would have been fine if stuck out there overnight, just a little cold and the small matter of a broken ankle..

The police at the scene and ambulance people were great. It would just seem that something that should have been reasonably simple to sort out was hampered by miss communication.

In reality he didn't need the helicopter and the police did the right thing in quickly dispatching a vehicle to assess the situation.

Those gates are pretty damn tough..... designed to keep you out.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Yep I did say I wasnt there so only going on what I've heard.

Thanks for giving us the facts Azz.

[north-north-west]

Thats a good point Gaye, ...

Stop being reasonable. You know the basic rule: Always blame FT.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Thats a good point Gaye, ...

Stop being reasonable. You know the basic rule: Always blame FT.

Im glad you showed up. I need at least ONE person to be on the same page as me.

[north-north-west]

Forestry are a pain. I recall when the '05 fires were raging there was all this bull being spread around about lack of access for the firefighters, with Parks Victoria being blamed. They just ignored all the facts, like the major fires ALL starting in working forests, and the easy access to them didn't help stop them spreading

It should be mandatory for all emergency services to have keys to any gate they may have to negotiate to carry out their duties.

[stepbystep]

It should be mandatory for all emergency services to have keys to any gate they may have to negotiate to carry out their duties.

A very sensible suggestion.

[ILUVSWTAS]

It should be mandatory for all emergency services to have keys to any gate they may have to negotiate to carry out their duties.

A very sensible suggestion.

One which I made in the first post of this thread, but you didnt tell me it was a good suggestion.

Oh hang on, this isnt in the private forum is it... hahahaha ooops

[Nuts]

Farm managers keys weren't they

anyhow.. whatever, sounds painful, all the best to mjd

[ILUVSWTAS]

Farm managers keys weren't they

anyhow.. whatever, sounds painful, all the best to mjd

forestry road/gate. farmer holds set of keys I think was the set up

[Nuts]

arr right... yes, for *&^%$# sake of course ft, ses and police should have keys then.. or master keys... or a cordless grinder ( ) ...

[ollster]

forestry road/gate. farmer holds set of keys I think was the set up

Not quite right. It was a shared gate, forestry and private. There was a pivot on either end of the gate with a separate key for each lock in the respective pivot.

It was still a total clusterflap getting access for the ambos. SOMEONE should have had a *&%$#! key to one of the locks!

[Ent]

So every land holder must have a lock that can be opened by the ambulance?

Frankly me thinks that the ambulance crew should have been issued with a universal key, otherwise known as bolt cutters and have the legislative protection to use them, properly that is. In fact Tas Police have the power and the legal protection to force entry if the situation requires it. As anyone who has managed common keys will tell you people lose them and the cost of re-keying is massive. Also locks fail or some are so fickled that some people can open them and others can not, "all in the wrist".

Does seam strange that the ambulance crew had no option but wait for someone else to open the gate or get around it for them. Worthwhile with the "concerned" parties following up with Tas Ambulance and Police.

Oh and thanks Azza for a accurate and on the ground summary with "situational awareness" to help out the site's resident "arm chair experts"

Regards

[ollster]

a universal key, otherwise known as bolt cutters and have the legislative protection to use them, properly that is.

Not sure how many forestry/boom gates you've seen, but their bolt cutter would need to be as big as a bulldozer, as this gate (and most others) had shielded locks.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Dont they have some kind of air pressure thing they can put against the lock and blow it open? Or is that more Hollywood crap im thinking??

[Stibb]

You are so dramatic. Liquid nitrogen + gentle *tap*

[doogs]

I had a coffee with the paramedic who attended the accident this morning. He was a little disappointed with the police that they couldn't get a key in several hours, they had one job and failed basically. It certainly would be reasonable for every police station to hold a forestry master key in their safe.

[north-north-west]

It certainly would be reasonable for every police station to hold a forestry master key in their safe.

Precisely.

Most private gates could be dealt with by bolt cutters, but not the FT style gates.
Although parks use the same sort of thing up here, and I've seen them ripped out of the ground by large 4WDs with winches . . .

[ILUVSWTAS]

It certainly would be reasonable for every police station to hold a forestry master key in their safe.

Precisely.

Most private gates could be dealt with by bolt cutters, but not the FT style gates.
Although parks use the same sort of thing up here, and I've seen them ripped out of the ground by large 4WDs with winches . . .

Yes a group I know of once was told they would find an open gate many many many miles down a road. When the gate was found locked they told me they had to ....... the gate.
He would say no more.

[ILUVSWTAS]

You are so dramatic. Liquid nitrogen + gentle *tap*

Sounds good though right?

[Ent]

Hi

I would be interested if Tasmap showed the road with a locked gate and if this might have made a difference to the recovery planning. By the looks of it this should have happened.

Private roads are very common in Tasmania. Also remember as part of National Competition Reforms the community obligations requirement got tossed out so there is limited reason for any semi government body to deal with the matter apart from maybe filing trespassing charges. Which is probably what a private landowner would if they listen to their lawyer's advice to head off any damages claim.

Oh, on the safety front, after the sixties bush fires in Tasmania it was legislated that Councils, State Government Departments, and Emergency services must have a common communication channel to co-ordinate ground crews. Very good idea but one that got stuffed up by various Federal Government Communication reforms and various State Government's lax approach Time heals but also causes memory loss.

We are living in an increasingly crazy world. Still do what I do. Contact your local friendly member. And remember this includes more than one party so if you have faith to to vote them in then check to see if this faith is well founded

But do not worry compass reference Victorian Parks is hiring foresters so you should have lots of burnt parks soon as that is what people want That is people that like living close to the bush. Um? Rather strange people seeking what they want and this leading to them destroying it. Yes a crazy world.

Regards.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Hey Brett. Yes the gate is marked on maps. It is even mentioned in the Abels book as being always locked.

[Ent]

Hi Mark

Then that is you way to hammer the point in your approach to the authorities, that being the Tasmap markings

I think Abels might not be considered an official book despite your desire for it to be In fact is it not on Parks' book burning list or is that just a myth

Cheers

[ILUVSWTAS]

Probably not Brett, but im pretty sure they do have maps......................

[Ent]

Hi Mark

Hopefully better maps than what Tasmap flogs us. If you have some time check out the Sophia 1:100,000, Cradle Park Map, and the 1:25,000 map (Pencil Pine?) for the track to Reynolds Fall. Sophia has it, Parks Cradle Map has expunged it from the records, and the 1:25,000 map was last updated 1984 (reviewed 1987) so does not know about it. And that is not uncommon Oh yes, the person that I voted top of the ticket has a rather Ent like email to deal with. Took them two weeks to acknowledge it but they have. Now will my faith be rewarded in the political process

Cheers

[north-north-west]

But do not worry compass reference Victorian Parks is hiring foresters so you should have lots of burnt parks soon as that is what people want That is people that like living close to the bush. Um? Rather strange people seeking what they want and this leading to them destroying it. .

Regardless of where you live, fuel reduction burns are good sense. It's not possible to stop the bush burning, so it's far better to have a lot of small controlled fires thus helping prevent the massive uncontrollable fires.

Parks are being stuffed even worse than usual due to the change in Government up here. I will be commenting further on this elsewhere.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Hi Mark

Hopefully better maps than what Tasmap flogs us. If you have some time check out the Sophia 1:100,000, Cradle Park Map, and the 1:25,000 map (Pencil Pine?) for the track to Reynolds Fall. Sophia has it, Parks Cradle Map has expunged it from the records, and the 1:25,000 map was last updated 1984 (reviewed 1987) so does not know about it. And that is not uncommon Oh yes, the person that I voted top of the ticket has a rather Ent like email to deal with. Took them two weeks to acknowledge it but they have. Now will my faith be rewarded in the political process

Cheers

I can kind of understand that in regard to the cradle area. The ammount of inexperienced ppl who go there probably think oh look a track to a waterfall.. thinking it might be as good a track as in the rest of the park. Easier to just get it off the map, and leave it to those in the know yeh???