Which Raft for the Franklin River?

[Son of a Beach]

The main challenge for me, if I get a packraft, will be getting enough practice in before February. I'm going to need to get out on white water as often as possible to work up to the Franklin. Currently I'm very nervous about white water, and although I don't want to become over confident, I do want to learn how to handle various scenarios safely (including knowing when to walk around some of the rapids).

[climberman]

nik - prety sure that in Tas there are some w.w. courses avail through TAFE - might be worth looking into. Even if you have to use a hardbody, the safety stuff will crossover wonderfully for the packraft.

[ninjapuppet]

I do want to learn how to handle various scenarios safely (including knowing when to walk around some of the rapids).

When in doubt..... scout

[Nuts]

Wouldn't even remotely think about a cag in a raft. Serious risk of entrapment & drowning in my books.

This is interesting, Where talking about a nylon top with neoprene cuff and hems (like a dry suit top) right? (i bought mine about 20yrs ago but was told (and always assumed) this was a 'cag') Ive always used one in a kayak.. (If this Is a cag), can i ask why not in a raft?

[DonQx]

sounds like a cag.

my comment is specific to a raft, very different from a kayak.

haven't seen a cag on a raft before, so I'm just surmising if you like. am struggling to see how & to what you'd attach it.

an upside down raft is very stable in the upside down position and much wider than a kayak. you'd have no chance to roll up. your only way out is first down, then sideways.

on the Franklin this won't always be possible. rafts are regulary jammed between rocks, wrapped around them or somehow wedged under - partially or fully. in any case I would much prefer to have fallen off beforehand. i imagine that a cag would prevent that from happening.

[tsangpo]

This is interesting, Where talking about a nylon top with neoprene cuff and hems (like a dry suit top) right? (i bought mine about 20yrs ago but was told (and always assumed) this was a 'cag') Ive always used one in a kayak.. (If this Is a cag), can i ask why not in a raft?

This is what I was talking about too. Used in sailing, kite-surfing, rafting etc.

I should probably clarify the miserable statement I made. Would still be a lot of fun but:
- I've heard some pretty horrible stories of rubber duckies durability - I assume the packrafts are a lot better now but their weight still makes me wonder.
- With an adult and all the gear for a ~5 day trip how much space is there going to be? Also the size will mean constantly getting water over the bow (this was why I was suggesting a cag). They also aren't self bailers which means you need a spray deck.

Probably shouldn't have used the word miserable but I think with a packraft you'll need to have slightly better waterproof/warm gear than with a more commercial raft (where often a wetsuit and rainjacket is fine) on decent whitewater.

EDIT:

haven't seen a cag on a raft before, so I'm just surmising if you like. am struggling to see how & to what you'd attach it.

The ones I'm talking about are just like a rainjacket with seals on hips, neck and wrists. No skirt which perhaps is what you're thinking of?

[DonQx]

The main challenge for me, if I get a packraft, will be getting enough practice in before February. I'm going to need to get out on white water as often as possible to work up to the Franklin. Currently I'm very nervous about white water, and although I don't want to become over confident, I do want to learn how to handle various scenarios safely (including knowing when to walk around some of the rapids).

caution is good, but don't be too nervous

in the 80s 100s of bushwalkers took to the Franklin in duckies with no experience at all. Everyone who used a bit of common sense and reasonable caution did just fine.

NP's "When in doubt..... scout" is spot on.

Take a river guide book or 2, and mark the critical bits on maps/GPS.

Don't try to shoot Big Fall even if it doesn't look big at all and quite harmless, but that used to be the only non-obvious problem area.

[DonQx]

ahhheeeemmmm ... sorry guys ... got confused between skirt & cag ... and didn't read your msg carefuklly enuf ... I retract everything I said about cags on rafts ... used to have one meself ... Oldtimers or whatever

haven't seen a cag on a raft before, so I'm just surmising if you like. am struggling to see how & to what you'd attach it.

The ones I'm talking about are just like a rainjacket with seals on hips, neck and wrists. No skirt which perhaps is what you're thinking of?[/quote]

Wouldn't even remotely think about a cag in a raft. Serious risk of entrapment & drowning in my books.

This is interesting, Where talking about a nylon top with neoprene cuff and hems (like a dry suit top) right? (i bought mine about 20yrs ago but was told (and always assumed) this was a 'cag') Ive always used one in a kayak.. (If this Is a cag), can i ask why not in a raft?

[Nuts]

ahhheeeemmmm ... sorry guys ... got confused between skirt & cag ... and didn't read your msg carefuklly enuf ...

i think your getting in deeper..

yer, i guessed you were talking about a skirt, my 'cag' is just like a hoody top/rainjacket thing.
The packrafts have an optional deck, i didnt get one but apparently they are pretty easy to exit from and keep warmer and dryer in rough going.

[climberman]

"I should probably clarify the miserable statement I made. Would still be a lot of fun but:
- I've heard some pretty horrible stories of rubber duckies durability - I assume the packrafts are a lot better now but their weight still makes me wonder.
- With an adult and all the gear for a ~5 day trip how much space is there going to be? Also the size will mean constantly getting water over the bow (this was why I was suggesting a cag). They also aren't self bailers which means you need a spray deck.

Probably shouldn't have used the word miserable but I think with a packraft you'll need to have slightly better waterproof/warm gear than with a more commercial raft (where often a wetsuit and rainjacket is fine) on decent whitewater.

Check out Roman Dial's blog.... he ran the Franklin recently in a packraft http://packrafting.blogspot.com/

[DonQx]

Check out Roman Dial's blog.... he ran the Franklin recently in a packraft http://packrafting.blogspot.com/

excellent post ... so this is what a packraft deck/skirt looks like

The packrafts have an optional deck, i didnt get one but apparently they are pretty easy to exit from and keep warmer and dryer in rough going.

yep, looks like it shouldn't be too hard with the long slit in front of you

BUUUT ... the packrafts in the blog look pretty small (didn't read the details) ... I imagine they behave a bit more like kayaks than the old 4 person duckies that used to be in vogue ... as I said above:

- The old 4-person duckies were about the smallest you'd want to go for. Anyone on smaller rafts would spend heaps more time in the water coz they flipped more easily (unless they were experienced whitewater kayakers). They were long enuf to sleep on them upside down, so I guess they'd been 220 cm long at least.

[frenchy_84]

I had my first ever outing in a Packraft last friday on the Picton river. This was my first ever time in a kayak or raft and it was great fun. The gorge rapid was excellent to run. And the spray decks are easy to slip out of if needed, although i still ended up getting quite wet but this may have just been the way it sat against my PFD. Ive Attached a few photos of HMAS Big Bird and Elmo, unfortunately HMAS Cookie Monster wasnt able to make it. Big BIrd is Yukon Yak and Elmo is a Llama both 2011 models with the big butts.

[Son of a Beach]

Roman Dial has packrafted the Franklin at least twice. There's a good video of him and group doing it recently. I've just read his book, and his chapter on his first trip down the Franklin is interesting reading. He ended up doing it solo (not a good idea in my opinion) because his mate backed out at the last minute. He reckons that two of the days were the best rafting days of his life, and two of the days were the worst ever (and that's because he kept going even when the water level got too high).

Eventually, he decided he'd better walk instead of raft, because of the river level, but found that he managed to walk 3 km through horizontal scrub in about 2 days.

The raft he was using was a custom made packraft prototype design. That design is now mass produced as the Alpacka 'Denali Llama'. So I guess you could say that raft was custom built for the Franklin.

[Nuts]

BUUUT ... the packrafts in the blog look pretty small (didn't read the details) ... I imagine they behave a bit more like kayaks than the old 4 person duckies that used to be in vogue ... as I said above:

I have heard mention of people rolling them but doubt it would be anywhere near as easy as a kayak.

Great to see a few pics frenchy, the new design looks interesting, would be easier to tell one end from the other .

Think i mentioned Nik that a mate did the Franklin solo back in the mid 90's. His biggest concern was loosing his raft.

[Dale]

I had my first ever outing in a Packraft last friday on the Picton river. This was my first ever time in a kayak or raft and it was great fun. The gorge rapid was excellent to run. And the spray decks are easy to slip out of if needed, although i still ended up getting quite wet but this may have just been the way it sat against my PFD. Ive Attached a few photos of HMAS Big Bird and Elmo, unfortunately HMAS Cookie Monster wasnt able to make it. Big BIrd is Yukon Yak and Elmo is a Llama both 2011 models with the big butts.

Hi Frenchy

I haven't given my packraft a whirl yet given the cold weather and my zero experience with rafting.

I can't imagine the temps in Tassie are particularly tropical this time of year - what did you wear to stay warm and how did you find the temps ?

[frenchy_84]

Hi Frenchy

I haven't given my packraft a whirl yet given the cold weather and my zero experience with rafting.

I can't imagine the temps in Tassie are particularly tropical this time of year - what did you wear to stay warm and how did you find the temps ?

I havent bought any packrafting specific clothing yet (bank balance has to recover from the raft purchase). The water was pretty cold due to alot of snow melt at the moment, i was wearing a wetsuit and no sprayjacket. The wetsuit would be too heavy to carry for trips which require alot of walking so im looking at buying a decent sprayjacket and some thin neoprene trousers. The wetsuit did well though my feet and hands were the only cold part of my body as i didnt have gloves and had normal socks which were wet. But the purchase of some neoprene gloves and socks should help matters. The amount of water that made it into the boat was a bit of a worry but i hope with experince and adjustment of the spray deck i might stay abit drier.

[Dale]

That sounds encouraging - if your experience was tolerable in water with snow melt than the local Colo river shouldn't be too hypothermic. I have an unrigged explorer so no plans on rapids - certainly nothing challenging. I haven't even started to turn my thoughts to packrafting gear - mmm... second mortgage perhaps ?