Starting out: First trip and traps to avoid

[bailz66]

Hello

My wife and I have recently decided our next holiday would be an 8 day Track on the overland trail in Tasmania. We have previously only done a few long day walks and are not very experienced in the walking/hiking game. We do like to do things ourselves so no tours or anything for our Trek we will just arrange transport and do the walk together.

We plan on (Depending on price) buying a full kit of gear with the intention of using it on this trek as well as many future trips we hope to do over the next few years and other smaller trips in the lead up to our Tasmania trip which we plan to do in February. We like the idea of being able to use the gear anywhere. Snow, Sun, wind ect. We plan on carrying all the gear where ever we go so weight and waterproofing is probably the two most important factors although we dont want to be spending too much getting kitted out but understand that its not a cheap endevour

We have had a look through Ebay a brief look at Kathmandu and at a few online catalogues.

Are there any stores that overcharge and should be wary of? any brands to look out for? Brands to avoid? Things to watch out for

Tent
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Mattress
Packs
Jackets and Waterproof clothing ect

Anything else we should know?

Thanks in advance for any advice you may be able to help us out with


___________________________________________________________________________________

Purchases so Far

Zamberlan Boots Zeneth GTR(Bec) - Mountain Design: $259.95
Macpac Socks (Bec) - Macpac : $14.95


______________________________________________________________________________________

Notes:

Tape for strapping toes
Foam for waist (Possibly)
Thin Socks -wigwam possibly to stop rubbing under socks

[Lindsay]

Hi, there are so many options for bushwalking gear that it's hard to make specific recommendations, especially if you are starting from scratch building up your equipment. You need to work out How much you want to spend, how often will you use the gear, where will you do most of your walking etc. Just browsing these forums will give you a good idea of the type of gear that is around and what it costs. There are people here far more knowledgeable than I on equipment, but I might suggest that for your first trip you hire some of the more expensive stuff instead of buying it. That way you can see if something works for you or not without a huge outlay.
cheers

Lindsay

[Wolfix]

I work in an outdoor store and don't mind telling you that there isn't a HUGE difference in quality between cheap and mid-range gear. The stuff I unpack in our store seems to be increasingly cheap and ill-conceived and prices aren't changing that much.

Having said that, you can walk comfortably with cheaper gear. I did the OT (younger and fitter) with mostly crap gear that did me fine.

There are some industry benchmarks that you can't argue with, though. Gore-tex (GTX) and eVent outer shells are a must for waterproof comfort. Pay more and you won't have to buy another shell for a very long time. Granted, they don't make them like they used to but you can expect to get 3-5 years from your GTX which beats cheaper, less comfortable fabrics.

Make sure your outer shell is FULLY SEAM SEALED. Critical seam sealing is common in cheaper jackets but will not be totally waterproof. The seams on the shoulders and arms are sealed but the rest are not and moisture will get in. Cold and clammy = horrible.

If you can afford it, trade up synthetic for merino. Most major outdoor stores have their own stuff now. Icebreaker is lovely but still the most expensive. Mountain Designs uses the same fabric and is marginally cheaper. I have traded my underpants, t-shirts, thermals, socks and fleece all for merino and I am so comfortable. Try it on and you'll see what I mean.

Get your pack LAST, along with your boots (if you need them.) That way you can put all your gear into something that you select to fit it and that feels comfortable when packed. Try it out in store. Dedicate a whole day (at least) when you go to buy gear so you're not rushed into making a decision or confused out of buying anything. Tell the staff upfront that you need a whole lot of gear and they will treat you like royalty. You don't have to be guilt-tripped into buying it all. We're used to being let down.

Try out your mat, sleeping bag and tent altogether. Pack and unpack the lot, especially the tent. Don't let the salesperson do it all for you - you should be able to experience it for yourself but they may want to guide you through specific features so let them help.

The Overland track is wet at the best of times. I used my waterproof pants more as a windbreak but they are handy. Simple, light ones are adequate in moderate rain. Shorts, thermal leggings and gaiters did me for the rest of the hike. Depending on the time of year, you can get away with a pretty basic outfit. Gaiters are glorious when you're negotiating mud.

I have a LOT to say about tents. There are huts at every stop and you'll usually get a spot in them but definitely take a tent. Anyone who tells you not to bother with a tent is insane and has never considered their survival needs.

I also have a LOT to say about packs. If you don't want to spend a lot, major retailers (e.g. Kathmandu, Mountain Designs) make good, cheap packs. They're mostly fine for occasional use and if you can keep your gear weight down they're mostly fairly comfortable but if you really want to experience comfort like you never imagined try an Aarn pack. In Sydney go to Adventure Megastore. Only one of their staff members is fully versed in Aarn packs so call in advance to see when he will be working. They are expensive but SO GOOD.

I'd be happy to talk to you in more detail about gear if you want to PM me.

[Wolfix]

Oh and don't pay RRP. You never need to. Outdoor retailers are perpetually on sale now. Second hand gear is readily available too but try it out in store first so you don't waste your money.

[Wolfix]

Budget suggestions mid range gear:

Tent $200-400
Pack $150-300 each
Sleeping bag $150-300 each
Sleeping mat $80-130 each
Rain jacket $200-400 each
Waterproof pants $80-150 each

Cheap/Strong/Light: you can have any two but not all three (generally true)
Consider what is most important to you. Make lists of options. Take details of weights etc and try different combos for a good compromise.

[bailz66]

Thanks for all the information guys!

Really appreciate it. Wolfox really appreciate the effort of your reply and the prices above where about what we were noticing for the gera when we were looking around

So far we have spent some time looking at everything and like the look of a few tents

Vango F10 Helium 200 2 person Hiking Tent 1.3kg

Is probably the proffered one at the moment at about $350.

I have noticed a few sleeping bags around that are from China on Ebay should i be avoiding those?

I have a meeting in Sydney today (Am in melbourne) but will probably have lots more questions about other products over the next few months. When i get into something i normally throw myself in 100% and try and learn everything i can about it.

We may look at hiring some of the good gear to see if we like it however at $80 a go its not that much more to buy outright some of the stuff. Anyway with 8 months we will keep an eye out for second hand gear as well as new

Cheers

[Dale]

Good advice from Wolfix.

Whatever gear you decide to go with, try and complete as many overnight hikes as you can before your Overland trip. Have a great time and happy trails

BTW Macpac have their Winter sale and in my opinion are one of the superior manufacturer/ retailers.

[frenchy_84]

BTW Macpac have their Winter sale and in my opinion are one of the superior manufacturer/ retailers.

Oh so its called the winter sale now... didnt really seem to be any time between that and the autumn sale.

Retailers seem to think that consumers are stupid (and any1 who pays full prise probably is) and put a ridiculous RRP and then come up with a miraculous sale where everything is half price so you get yourself a bargain when in reality your paying what would be a reasonable RRP. Retailers then *&%$#! and moan when people by things on the internet but at least on the internet you can buy gear at a reasonable price. So once you know what gear you want buy online.

[Dale]

BTW Macpac have their Winter sale and in my opinion are one of the superior manufacturer/ retailers.

Oh so its called the winter sale now... didnt really seem to be any time between that and the autumn sale.

Retailers seem to think that consumers are stupid (and any1 who pays full prise probably is) and put a ridiculous RRP and then come up with a miraculous sale where everything is half price so you get yourself a bargain when in reality your paying what would be a reasonable RRP. Retailers then *&%$#! and moan when people by things on the internet but at least on the internet you can buy gear at a reasonable price. So once you know what gear you want buy online.

I personally think the frequent ‘sales’ behaviour from our outdoor retailers is great for the consumer (providing you wait for the ‘sale’ of course ). Even better that we now have Macpac, a high quality manufacturer / retailer, taking the game to their competitors.

I don’t have a problem with Macpac’s frequent sales, it makes good commercial sense. They didn’t start the trend, they’re just making sure they’re not roadkill in the stampede of ‘sales’ which is now business as usual for the outdoor gear companies. I’m hoping they pull market share from Kathmandu et. al. and attract the ‘casual’ shopper who occasionally goes outdoors, but can do so with better quality gear and advice.

Also, most people starting out in this hobby won’t necessarily be comfortable buying online until they are more familiar with gear, so the retailers will be their main source of equipment.

[frenchy_84]

but its hardly a 'sale' when prices are inflated to start with and then reduced to what would be a reasonable RRP just so people think they are getting a bargain. And its really irritating to have to wait for these sale events (even though they seem to never end). At least on the internet the prices are pretty consistent with a few real sales thrown in.
Macpac has also gone the way of internet sales but as mentioned on a different topic (i have not tested it out so im not sure if this is correct) you cant buy gear off their NZ website and ship to Aus to make good use of the weak NZ dollar you have to buy it from their Aus website where the price difference with the current exchange rate is approx 50 bucks or more on some products.

[ninjapuppet]

Yea, I did see a Macpac Olympus on sale in NZ, and once converted to Aussie dollars, it was only about $450 AUD.
Great news for those heading over there.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

My wife and I were in the same boat as you about three years ago - planning to do the Overland, wanted to buy gear and do it ourselves.

Your gear won't have to be too fancy on the Overland, and cheaper gear will get you through, but won't last if you plan on walking a lot.

The two main questions are
1. How much do you have to spend
2. What sort of difficulty/frequency of walking will you do in the future.

We bought middle of the road gear which did us well, but since then have already upgraded some of our equipment.

Like others have said, if you want cheap/strong/light/durable it costs A LOT of money. If you buy really cheap stuff you will end up replacing it because it will break. If you buy middle of the road it's better because if you decide to upgrade to top stuff, you can probably sell off a lot of your other stuff on ebay.

[Wolfix]

Macpac I like for tents. As you will read, only Macpac and Wilderness Equipment make tents with hardy floors to suit Aus/NZ ground. You don't need a footprint so the extra weight is offset and the floor is more waterproof.

If you can't pay far an Aarn pack, I like Mountain Designs and Macpac for cheaper packs. MD packs are cheaper than Macpac and new harnesses have been much more successful with a lot of people but uncomfortable for some. I work for MD but will give you only personal opinions (and hopefully not get sacked!) Their BAR harness system is very bulky and cumbersome but seems to be a hit with many customers because you can adjust it fully while wearing it. Aarn packs are also adjustable in use and the purpose in their case is for a range of settings for different terrain. I adjust my pack fairly regularly while walking but feel much more comfortable as a result and don't lose time or effort in the adjusting.

MD tents are reasonable but heavy or with thinner floors. Eureka tents are fairly reliable and cheap. WE tents are strong but many are heavy and they can be annoying to set up. MSR tents, like Marmot tents, are a dream to set up and their designs are pretty well thought out but they are thin and susceptible to floor damage (in my experience and based on some user reviews.) The floor won't be a problem if you're on tent platforms on the OT.

As for GTX, again, MD is the cheapest stuff I have seen (Macpac sale price is close to MD RRP) and it's good. As good as any of the gear around these days, anyway. Mountain Hardwear is also good and you can get a lot of it on clearance at the moment at MD and possibly the same price at Paddy Pallin. I thnk Marmot use eVent. Never worn it but always wanted to.

If you want a great bargain shop wait for a Mountain Designs Family & Friends offer and you can get 30% off clearance price. Usually that's cheaper than my staff discount so I wait til then too! (again only speaking of what I know, not trying to promote the company as I do not have a share in profits nor do I care about anyone who does.) I will post the offer in the relevant thread when the time comes.

Have a look in the Marketplace section of this forum. I for one am going to be selling some barely used gear soon. Others often do too.

[ninjapuppet]

If you want a great bargain shop wait for a Mountain Designs Family & Friends offer and you can get 30% off clearance price. Usually that's cheaper than my staff discount so I wait til then too!

Really!?!?
they actually make you BUY the stuff at higher prices than when its on sale to the public?

[north-north-west]

If you want a great bargain shop wait for a Mountain Designs Family & Friends offer and you can get 30% off clearance price. Usually that's cheaper than my staff discount so I wait til then too!

Really!?!?
they actually make you BUY the stuff at higher prices than when its on sale to the public?

You VILL buy ziss tent NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Somehow I don't think so. Although I'd love to see it . . .

[bailz66]

Thanks for the replies guys. It sounds like Mac Pac is a good place to start although they do seem quite expensive on their website. Everything is in the upper bracket of what we are looking to spend.

The tents are quite heavy 2.1KG for the Olympus which i must say does look like a great tent but at $629 (2.1kg) its a bit pricey for what we are after.

I made a comment about the Vango F10 Helium 200 2 person Hiking Tent 1.3kg ($349.95)
http://www.wildearth.com.au/vango-heliu ... p-799.html

Does anyone have any thoughts on these?

[ILUVSWTAS]

Thanks for the replies guys. It sounds like Mac Pac is a good place to start although they do seem quite expensive on their website. Everything is in the upper bracket of what we are looking to spend.

The tents are quite heavy 2.1KG for the Olympus which i must say does look like a great tent but at $629 (2.1kg) its a bit pricey for what we are after.

I made a comment about the Vango F10 Helium 200 2 person Hiking Tent 1.3kg ($349.95)
http://www.wildearth.com.au/vango-heliu ... p-799.html

Does anyone have any thoughts on these?

I think the Olympus is 3.1 kg, not 2.
Also, yes I have a Vango, it's rubbish. Very weak material, poor design, heavier than they state. You'd buy and kill 20 of them before a macpac tent died on you. And there are several brands i'd suggest before Macpac.

[tsangpo]

With the sleeping bags consider getting $100-$150 synthetic models rated to about -5C along with a silk liner. I've slept in one in well below 0 before just by putting on more clothes. A sleeping bag is probably one thing that is good to make the jump from lower average to a good (but expensive) down once you're sure you want to invest in the hobby. On a student budget my sleeping bag is probably going to be one of the last things I'll upgrade.

Also another good cheap option if you can do a bit of DIY is an alcohol stove like this:
http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html
Should be able to get a pot and make a burner and windshield for around $25 and then you can upgrade to a really good ~$200 set-up later on without having lost much.

Waterproof pants are another area you can skimp on initially. You can get cheap non breathable pants from KMart or similar that work serviceably for the occassions that you need them.

For the tent look at the Nallo 2 from Hilleberg - you will have to get it from the states and it costs a bit but it is supposed to be an excellent tent.

[bailz66]

Thanks for the replies guys. It sounds like Mac Pac is a good place to start although they do seem quite expensive on their website. Everything is in the upper bracket of what we are looking to spend.

The tents are quite heavy 2.1KG for the Olympus which i must say does look like a great tent but at $629 (2.1kg) its a bit pricey for what we are after.

I made a comment about the Vango F10 Helium 200 2 person Hiking Tent 1.3kg ($349.95)
http://www.wildearth.com.au/vango-heliu ... p-799.html

Does anyone have any thoughts on these?

I think the Olympus is 3.1 kg, not 2.
Also, yes I have a Vango, it's rubbish. Very weak material, poor design, heavier than they state. You'd buy and kill 20 of them before a macpac tent died on you. And there are several brands i'd suggest before Macpac.

Thanks see if i wasn't here then that would probably be one of the ones I would have looked and and possibly bought. So based on your advice I will look at something a bit better quality.

For the tent look at the Nallo 2 from Hilleberg - you will have to get it from the states and it costs a bit but it is supposed to be an excellent tent.

I will take a look at one of these now

With the sleeping bags consider getting $100-$150 synthetic models rated to about -5C along with a silk liner. I've slept in one in well below 0 before just by putting on more clothes. A sleeping bag is probably one thing that is good to make the jump from lower average to a good (but expensive) down once you're sure you want to invest in the hobby. On a student budget my sleeping bag is probably going to be one of the last things I'll upgrade.

Sounds like it might be the way to go at this stage as we really dont want to over stretch our budget on our first trip. Perhaps we will hire some sleeping bags although that will make it hard for our inital few hikes as our current sleeping bags are cold at the best of times.

[bailz66]

Building a big spreadsheet with a cash budget and a weight budget at the moment to get an idea of where we want to spend and how much.

And your right about the Olympus being 3.1kg

[bailz66]

Also, yes I have a Vango, it's rubbish. Very weak material, poor design, heavier than they state. You'd buy and kill 20 of them before a macpac tent died on you. And there are several brands i'd suggest before Macpac.

Which brands are you referring to?

[ILUVSWTAS]

Hilleberg, MSR. Terra Nova. Maybe even Nth face. MD make some ok tents as well.

I have the Vango Helium 100, it's junk
I have a Hilleberg Akto, it's awesome
I have a Terra Nova Photon Elite, it's amazing
I have a macpac Minaret, it's the best tent i've ever seen, just too heavy for one person

[bailz66]

Looking at the minaret it is only 2.4 which is comparable to other tents isn't it?

Right now we are looking at

Nallo 2
Olympus
Minaret

But will look at a few others over coming days. We will probably attempt not to skimp on a tent as it's a pretty important item I believe

[Dale]

This is a recent survey on double wall lightweight tents. You need a subscription or you can buy the article:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... _2010.html

The emphasis of course is on lighter tents and many of these you would need to order from the US.

[Nuts]

Looking at the minaret it is only 2.4 which is comparable to other tents isn't it?

Right now we are looking at

Nallo 2
Olympus
Minaret

But will look at a few others over coming days. We will probably attempt not to skimp on a tent as it's a pretty important item I believe

Hi Bailz (good year that ),

Those three tents are all 'top shelf', all tunnel tents designed to handle very rough weather. Ive used the Nallo and Olympus. Bare in mind that in this price bracket they are only better 'by degrees', they all have limits. The Olympus (with its three poles) would be the pick for snow but then (as you have found) its heavier, the Minaret is lighter as is the Nallo. In being good snow tents though, none of these vent as well as any of dedicated three season tent ive used.

I'd personally choose the Nallo but to make it truly comfortable year round the optional mesh inner is a good idea (and (besides weight 4 space) the main reason i'd choose it) (Only id go with Nallo3 as the extra 200g makes a lot of space difference)

If you want to save some money Eureka, Big Agnes, Sierra Designs are all just as well made (from those ive seen) and much cheaper. They would also likely be more versatile 'year (and aussie) round'

Macpac/Hillebergs mentioned will give you a tent that is about as 'bombproof' as commericially available, something to avoid is any feeling of 'piece of mind' it may be tempting to get from the purchase. Ive survived a full flying ice gale in a kmart tent and seen one of the above rendered (immediately) useless with a pole rip in similar conditions.

While a bivy bag isnt everyones idea of comfort, it's inherent 'safety' (it wont blow away, break a pole, tear a tie out) is a good starting point to think about 'shelter' at its most basic level. This may seem like reinventing the wheel, you might 'just wanna buy a tent' right... Even if thats the case it probably helps at some stage to think of these things at a basic level and imagine the 'whatifs'

I'd choose the Olympus if doing a lot of snow camping but then it would be a heavyweight hogg in a lot of warmer and summer climates...

I know this might not help, just advice to not narrow the field too quickly, there are dozens of good options, the ones listed here just got good press (they do deserve it but i believe it was more of 'what was available' with macpac and 'what had been round longest' with the hillebergs (back ten or so years ago when the transition to wiki knowledge made us all instant experts and critics and soon after the economy paved the way)

Of course, excess funding' blurs the purchase. If moneys not so critical, just spend up, someones sure to come along after you, feel they Need the same stuff and buy it off you... the wheel turns..

Also, dont dismiss the reality, 'what to do when your new bombproof tent fails'?? With this in mind, who knows, it might not take long to imagine the advantage of something simple (and much lighter) as in the cheaper options above or those listed on Dales link.. (Even those in the survey are all fairly conventional by 'lightweight' standards)

edit: should add Tarptent to the list. Other local manufacturers/retailers (Wilderness Equipment/One Planet come to mind) have solid reputations, perhaps better after sales service?)

[tsangpo]

While a bivy bag isnt everyones idea of comfort, it's inherent 'safety' (it wont blow away, break a pole, tear a tie out) is a good starting point to think about 'shelter' at its most basic level. This may seem like reinventing the wheel, you might 'just wanna buy a tent' right... Even if thats the case it probably helps at some stage to think of these things at a basic level and imagine the 'whatifs'

At the moment I'm using about a 10 year old Mapcpac bivy shelter (hoop around the head for wet weather). I've mostly used it on rafting trips where a tarp was handy if necessary. I've used it a couple of times for bushwalking and a couple of times had to pitch it when there was rain. When there is rain it's a struggle if you're out for more than a night because your breath causes massive condensation on your sleeping bag (put a rain jacket inside the bivy and on top of your sleeping bag and it's sort of okay with a synthetic bag but not a down bag as there is still quite a bit of condensation) and your pack can get pretty damp.

For the overlamd track, given the amount of huts I would only really consider a bivy neceessary (addendum: it's always good to sleep inside a bivy in you are in a hut etc just to protect your sleeping bag), however for other trips the confort that being snug inside a tent during terrible weather provides is well worth it. Honestly, any tent that can pitch the inner and fly together will be fine which means any $350+ tent from overseas ($5/600+ in Australia)

Disclaimer: Personally (for a one man set-up) I've ordered a lightweight Hilleberg tarp ($150 as opposed to much more for a good quality tent) to go with my bivy bag depending on the weather forecast so I can use it in bad weather around my head/pack. Having your head in the open in good weather is an amazing feeling, one that really can't be overstated, it can be a struggle in bad weather though.

[bailz66]

Thanks for all the input guys.

We are traveling as a couple so Bivy bags would probably make it a bit strange as it would be hard to have a conversation ect. So we will defiantly be getting a tent. We actually plan on skipping most of the huts and just setting up on platforms but that may change when we are there.

Anyway i am going to be away for a couple of days and be back Monday.

Once again thanks heaps for all your advice so far!

[Nuts]

Yes, no of course! I wasn't suggesting using a bivy... Ive slept in some (on there own) and they aren't much fun without some sort of fly. I always carry one in winter, regardless of what else is being carried, even with a hilleberg. This isnt my point but perhaps closer to it. If your not using a 'snow' tent in winter, on snow, there isn't much point buying one! If you are then it is as much the tent as the backup & experience that will keep you 'safe'. Assuming that you don't plan anything too extreme a cheaper 3 season tent may be more suitable & practical.

It often happens here that new walkers are recommended a narrow selection of tents (and other gear) made for the arctic... its just not always necessary (or 'the best' for everyones circumstances..)

[Lizzy]

How about SIerra Designs tents;
http://www.campsaver.com/camp-hike/tent ... -camp-2011
I have the Lightning 1 person which is very light & compact- haven't used it heaps but it did withstand some crappy, I mean standard Tassie weather of hail/snow/ rain/ wind Could be worth a look at anyway....
Lizzy

[Wolfix]

If you want a great bargain shop wait for a Mountain Designs Family & Friends offer and you can get 30% off clearance price. Usually that's cheaper than my staff discount so I wait til then too!

Really!?!?
they actually make you BUY the stuff at higher prices than when its on sale to the public?

What? No... no - 30% off clearance price is up to 80% off. The best we get is 70% off in periodic pro deal offers. Not a lot of stuff hangs around on clearance but sometimes you get lucky. I bought a Prolite 4 Small last time for something like $35. But yes, they make us pay for gear usually. Not much for free in this world (except effort and overtime!)