AAWT hiker found

[anne3]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/hiker ... 1el16.html

Good outcome.......having walked this section of track I can fully understand why he let off his EPIRB, especially if he got lost coming up from the Black River. I was lost, or I should say... I was off track navigating in this area in January, twisted my ankle and spent two days walking out to get phone reception, if the weather had been that bad I would of set off my beacon in a flash. Hope he goes home, gets dry and sets off again.

[Bill P]

Thanks anne3 yes a good outcome. I expect whether it was an Emergency will be the subject of discussion. I've been lost twice and I know the terrific panic which arises, I wonder now if I'd had a PLB those times whether I'd have set it off.

Is he gunna continue the walk?. Bill P

[Nuts]

Not too many facts come out in these news grabs do they. These incidents seem to have happened almost weekly over this last summer. Does that mean that in the 'good old days' before beacons we would have had one walker perishing each week? ie in a 'real' 'emergency'..

There is an obvious move on the part of rescue services to not lay blame on those rescued but the amount of times they are labeled 'experienced' is a bit much isnt it... In the many incidents recently the only 'skill' highlighted in the headlines has been that of carrying and knowing when to set off the magic button...

I'm not convinced beacons (with a role in trip planning) arent actually as responsible for getting people into situations as much as
a tool for removal from them. I know this has come up before but really... the guy was alone! Not so long ago this would have been frowned on, has anything changed other than being able to purchase a beacon...

[photohiker]

has anything changed other than being able to purchase a beacon...

I guess if you ask the question, you think not.

An awful lot has changed. Our perception of safety and the ability to call in a rescue remotely is just one of them.

Our society has become accustomed and even worships people who are seen as adventurers and capable of existing solo in the wilderness or on the sea. We hail the marvelous escapades of our solo mountaineers and adventurers who tackle difficult terrain or kayak across huge distances with little or even no support.

Why would we be surprised that people set out to emulate this behavior? Why would we consider someone is doing the wrong thing just because we hear that they have been beset by circumstances that cause them to press the magic button?

Its not like this sort of thing is only happening in Australia. Solo escapades over vast distances and in difficult terrain are not uncommon all over the planet.

So yes, I put it forward that lots has changed. Society values around enabling personal challenges in the environment is one of the core changes IMO. We also have much better access to information, time and equipment than we mere mortals have ever had.

Darwin sorts out the rest.

[marangaroo86]

I am glad to see He was found.
broke my leg buskwalking in January. I wish I had a PLB at the time.
It would have saved a lot of people a lot of pain , effort and time. Even with contact with police and mobil phone it still takes a lot of effort to be found , helped and removed to safety. ( hiking partner, police, SES,Air Ambulance,Ground Ambulance on location as back up, hospital on readyness for Helicopter, Family and many others involved on the day)
Any emergancy in the bush, lost, Illness, Injury, Weather is a big deal for a lot of people. And any tool that can help is worth its weight in gold
I have no problems with solo hiking as long as they are prepared and equipped appropriately.
PLBs should be carried and used when needed. It may save you and others.
I bet the police are glad He used His PLB and it was not a search for a missing walker.

P.S Love This forum have read a lot in the last 4 months ( Still not back at work)

[Mike Harding]

A good outcome. However I do wonder if being lost and in bad weather is an
appropriate reason to trigger an EPIRB? One of those "You have to be there"
to give a fair answer I guess.

I'm interested in the details if anyone knows them?
Was his EPIRB a Spot or a UHF PLB?
If UHF PLB did it have a GPS?
I assume the helicopter couldn't operate because of bad weather?

I note it took around 19 hours from the triggering of the EPIRB to help
arriving so we should be reminded an EPIRB is not an instant "Get out of
gaol free" card - you'd do well to last 19 hours from a significant snake bite
etc.

My utmost thanks to the three officers who walked in there, much of it in
the dark and freezing weather and in very tough country. Good on yer guys!

Mike Harding

[Nuts]

So yes, I put it forward that lots has changed. Society values around enabling personal challenges in the environment is one of the core changes IMO. We also have much better access to information, time and equipment than we mere mortals have ever had.

Darwin sorts out the rest.

hmmm an interesting post! Whoever people look up too, whatever set of values they align with, whatever access to time, information or technology they have still changes very little when the $h*$ hits the fan...

'Modern' concepts of things that are needed to live a full life I dont really grasp, I suspect if I was from one of our major mainland cities I may understand more..

Its not really about the plb, its use, merits or any particular circumstance.

The point was about planning but even moreso about the direction 'society' seems to be accepting that all is good. Obviously anyone being funded to help in rescue isnt going to stick their hand up and question anything... the dilemma also prevails that they dont want to be seen to be responsible for anyone Not using their plb out of fear of reprisal..

This is fine, whatever... but not being in such a gagged position I feel it worth mentioning that I still think there is likely a fair %age of numpties with dexterous thumbs amongst those rescued. Perhaps (as has been discussed before) they would be better of not having a beacon in the first place... staying at home or being forced to learn all the things them will keep them Out of trouble first I guess those things arent so neatly packaged and accessable to the credit card..

There, avoided question marks this time, it Was a rant!

PS good points Mike...

[Bill P]

Good discussion,

I suppose Emergency services can't not encourage the carriage, and therefore the corresponding activation of PLBs, especially for solo walkers.

If a cyclist gets squashed by a truck , and is not wearing a helmet, then the armchair critics scream "Idiot. It's obviously his fault!" . Similar if a solo walker get into strife , and does not have a PLB, we now get to hear their "Idiot, its his fault" cries.

So do solo walkers, hovever experienced, now need to carry PLBs to not appear irresponsible?

Bill P

[north-north-west]

Since when is Shillinglaw either 'rugged' or 'remote'? The summit is less than 1km from the Jamieson Rd. It's an easy half day from Champion Spur Rd to the Jamieson Rd on that route, the only issue being the crossing of the Black River, and maybe a little overgrowth on the knob west of Shillinglaw.
Sure, the weather would have been an issue - it was unlucky to be out when that cold snap hit - but otherwise why couldn't he just have hunkered down and seen it out, if he wasn't injured?

And why not alone? Having another walker there with the same level of experience and equipment wouldn't have changed the conditions.

[andrewbish]

Photohiker - Have I understood you correctly that you are frowning on solo walking? I am sure there are a lot of people on this forum that would disagree with you.

Solo is my fav way to walk. I know there are risks and I do what I can to calculate and manage them. I don't carry a PLB yet, but I plan to do so when my walks get more adventureous. That said, I would have to be pretty lost or incapacitated before I would activate a PLB - part of the challenge is getting yourself out of a predicament. I do carry a GPS, which adds a significant margin for error.

Like NNW, I wonder at the walker activating a PLB in the circumstances as reported.

Andrew

[photohiker]

Photohiker - Have I understood you correctly that you are frowning on solo walking? I am sure there are a lot of people on this forum that would disagree with you.

No, you have misunderstood me. My post was an attempt to explain the shift in society attitudes towards solo outdoor pursuits.

99% of my walking is solo - over 500km since January. I'd be the last person to be arguing against it...

[Nuts]

I know this has come up before but really... the guy was alone! Not so long ago this would have been frowned on, has anything changed other than being able to purchase a beacon...

Was me that mentioned solo walking. Not that I personally think there are too many more dangers.

It is interesting that the general consensus is that solo is fine and that 'one' would have to 'argue' against it.

Taking a stabb but this is one of the consequences of modern technology.... and the point... : If we were having this discussion 20 yrs ago i can almost guarantee that there would have been a far stronger element scoffing at those walking alone, the old sayings, the media at the time, in the minds of all the old timers 'less than three shall never be'...all that...

Motivations leading to the increase in people getting 'out there' really dont come into it, the dangers are still just as real...

'Without a plb shall never be' (?)

[Bill P]

Good article in latest 'Wild' mag called 'Going Solo" which discusses soloing, PLBs, politicians adventures etc.

Seems group sizes are getting smaller and solo is just the latest party size.

That's a relief for me, I thought maybe I didn't have any friends. Bill P

[north-north-west]

Robert Rankin, in Classic Wild Walks of Australia:

"Some people, however, prefer to walk alone and there isn't, nor should there be, any rule against it. To walk alone is not a matter of being irresponsible, it is more a duty to be very responsible."

[anne3]

Sorry that I started this post.........I have always believed that I would only use PLB if I was in a life and death situation...now I will take into account how much bagging I will get if some one posts a news article about me on a bush walk forum. Sorry to the guy involved. The weather in this neck of the woods has been shocking with snow falling in the township of Erica, so I can only imagine what it is like up there.
To say " a little bit of undergrowth" makes me wonder when you were last up there last ? NNW

[marangaroo86]

N.N.W Love that " To walk alone is not a matter of being irresponsible, it is more a duty to be very responsible"

Anne3 Dont be sorry for starting the post. Its always interesting knowing whats happening to others out there. There may be lessons for us to learn.

Bill3 No, a soloist does not need to carry PLBs to show how resonsible they are. But the are of great help for you and the people trying to help you if you need help .

[Nuts]

I guess Robert Rankin is someone of great experience to be admired... worshipped? (ph)



anne3, i probably got this off track though what really can be said from a few words in a news article.

I always follow the links on these things and look for outcomes but they are rarely more than one shot reports. With this in mind, discussing rescue in general is where the topic usually ends up, thats not such a bad thing right?

At the end of the day the only situation worse than someone being rescued that didnt really need it would be someone not activating a beacon who really did. In this it seems the reaction of the rescue services is understandable. To me though it is just that.. a reaction. Its general community attitudes that lead (probably via politicians) to the status quo..

In an ideal world neither you nor this poor guy should see anything negative about anything that's said. Even the few facts reported are likely wrong.

[marangaroo86]

"Even the few facts reported are likely wrong " Your not wrong Nuts

When I broke my leg in January it was reported in the media I had fallen of a cliff, two broken legs and even spinal injuries. None of this was true.

[davidmorr]

A good outcome. However I do wonder if being lost and in bad weather is an
appropriate reason to trigger an EPIRB? One of those "You have to be there"
to give a fair answer I guess.

My club had a sergeant from the Police Rescue talk to us at a meeting recently. The subject of when to set off a PLB was raised.

His answer was that you should use it if you think it is necessary.

He also said that they would never penalise anyone for setting it off. This is clear from the report I posted of the search for four fellows on the Colo last year, where the alarm was raised because one of the girlfriends had a dog at the vet and didn't have the money to get it out. She needed her boyfriend's wallet at home to pay for it.

[north-north-west]

To say " a little bit of undergrowth" makes me wonder when you were last up there last ? NNW

I think I said 'regrowth', not 'undergrowth', but same difference. Ummmm, about two months ago, maybe a little more. Just before Tassie, anyway.

[gbedford]

Since I don't know all of the facts I wouldn't pass judgement on the rescued walker and there is nothing bad about being rescued. However I agree with Andrew Bish and North North-West. I like solo walking and asking for rescue would be my last resort. I am not saying I would never but I would have exhausted other avenues first. It is too easy to give up these days compared to days gone by when one had to depend on your own resources.

Regards,
Gordon

[MartyGwynne]

I was glad the walker had a PLB and was found safely within 1 day of setting it off. I would rather that than to get a call out to help search for someone who is overdue for more than 1 day. I volunteer for the Victorian Bushwalkers Search and Rescue (BSAR) which is run by Vicpol search and rescue. I was dreading the call to help search in that sort of weather, having myself been a bit lost in that area before during poor weather in November. The Vicpol S&R guys are well trained to do such a search and should be complimented upon achieving such a good outcome in such a short time in such poor conditions.
I also question the choice of time of year to do the walk, but given what we have had over the past couple of years the weather would have been OK to do the walk solo. I can't comment on weather the person was capable or not to do it.
I think he made a good call in setting off a PLB/spot and staying put.

Martin (a solo walker and PLB carrier).