Backpacking tent: Single wall or Double wall

[ULWalkingPhil]

Hi, my name is Phillip, I've been lurking about here on the forums for some time now, I thought it was time I made my first post, particularly after getting confused in regards to purchasing a backpacking tent.

Un fortunately I don't have the option of going to the nearest outdoors store as where I live none of the named brand products are sold. I live at Bundaberg in Queensland.

The more research I do the more confused I am, there are so many options out there, which is a good thing,
My old 4 Season tent has seen better days, the fly is very sticky and it's not the lightest tent about, so it's time to upgrade.

It's so difficult when I read one thing on the net and told the opposite on the phone at some of the outdoor stores, for example at Christmas I purchased a 2 man Eureka tent for half price while holidaying at the Gold Coast near Brisbane, salesman told me that the tent can be erected fly first than than the inner tent attached which is a important feature for me. After purchasing the tent I went back home to find it flooded, but that's another story.

I attempted to erect the tent the other day for the first time, half hour later the tent is still flat on the ground, I had no idea how this tent erected, I was trying to follow the instructions given to me by the salesman. There was no instructions in the tent bag, as I thought till I opened the peg bag, to find that this tent had to be erected via the inner tent first than attach the fly. If I had known this I would not have purchased the tent, it rains a lot up here as you all seen on the news lately, and what a nightmare this tent is to put up. So many Velcro attachment points difficult to get to, after some practice the quickest I can erect this tent is 15 minutes. It's gotta go.

Hence my first post, my old tent is a dream to erect, the fly is attached to the inner tent and erects in one, it has sleeves were I slide to poles into, and I can erect without getting the inner fly wet if it rains.

After some research online, I've narrowed my choose down to one of the Exped tents.
I believe in the saying you get what you pay for, so I am willing to spend unto $1000.00 for a quality 2 man backpacking tent that is easy to erect and will last.

[tasadam]

$1000 is a lot to pay for a tent...
Have you researched Hilleberg? Do a search on the forum for "hilleberg" or "nallo" or see this topic for tent - ease of setup in weather.
Here is where I got mine.
This post shows how to get the discount (but BOO - they put the price up a bit)

A bit about the Nallo2...
It's light weight, 4 season. It's a tunnel tent with a large vestibule at one end.
It can be assembled either fly first then attach the inner, or, the usual way - leave the tent inner attached to the fly all the time because I cannot see any need to separate them.
As said on one of those earlier links... 2 pegs at the back of the tent, holds it down (windward side). Slide both poles through the sleeve, the opening of the pole sleeve is tapered so you can easily start to get the pole through. One pole is longer than the other, and it has a red stripe on it. and the sleeve opening also has a bit of red tape. Both poles go in from one side only, and sit into little cups on the other side.
Then you pull the tent taut and peg the front down.
If it's reaining and that process takes more than a couple of minutes, you're wasting time.
Then you can peg the 5 guy ropes down.

Searching for reviews on the net, don't be misled by some early reviews, relating to an earlier model Nallo. They suffered a bit with condensation, but Hilleberg have addressed the issue and redesigned it, I think they added the window at the back. Anyhow, I don't have an issue with condensation in this tent.

I generally research stuff fairly well before spending that much on an item. Hope that helps.

Hope all's okay up there re the flood, you sure copped some water...

PS. I have no association with Hilleberg or Moontrail other than as a customer.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I am considering a Exped Polaris, I'm concerned how it will perform in warmer climates, in saying that most of my backpacking will be at cooler times of the year. Plans are to also walk the Overland Track at Tasmania next year in feb or march. Mostly it will be used in Queensland.

The Exped Polaris is a single wall tent, does anyone know how they perform in warmer climates? From what I can see they appear to have good ventilation.

I have not considered the Hilleberg tents, I like the setup of the Exped tents, they look easy and quick to erect and there also free standing, which is another feature I am looking for.

I really like the looks of the Polaris tent, would love to hear any reports on the Exped Polaris tents in warmer climates.

[tasadam]

I do not know the Exped tents at all, sorry.
I would not recommend a single wall tent for Australian conditions.
The one single-wall tent that I considered when looking was the Bibler Tempest.
Much reading and asking led me to the conclusion that single wall tents are really only good for very cold conditions with dry air. The mountains in Australia aren't really high enough to accommodate that criteria, so they suffer from condensation issues.
As in this review, I don't reckon it leaked, I reckon it had condensation... If it was wet AND cold, and two people inside...
Try and steer away from single wall tents is my advice. IMO you should get a tent with dual walls, and one that holds a good gap between the inner and outer.

I found this topic, don't know if that helps, but reading it, seems you should not have those sorts of issues with a quality tent.
It seems no-one has ever mentioned the Polaris on this site until now.

Hey, maybe THIS will interest you...

[ULWalkingPhil]

From the few days research on the Polaris, the earlier models where made of event material, the newer models are now Canopy fabric: Waterproof/breathable, 3-layer PTFE-laminate fabric with fully taped  seams.

The earlier event model, I've read some great reviews, but the newer model, I can't find any user info on it, I guess it is a bit of a risk for our warmer climate here,

I've also looked into the Exped Orion Expedition, it's got a fly made out of Silicon Nylon. I've read some good reports on this fly material. Problem is I can't find anyone that stocks them, both here or overseas.
I liked what I read about this silicon nylon that it does not go sticky over time. My 4 season backpacking tent has gotten very sticky, it is 15 years old, so I got a good life out of it, although I still expected it to last a lot longer. I think heat and high humidity and being always packed in it's sack has contributed to the fly sticking, also all the tape sealing has lifted up and the tent is a little heavy at almost 4 kg. Time for a new tent.

[Bluegum Mic]

Phillipsart I just googled and mainpeak in WA stock both the exped Polaris ($900) and the Orion ($720). I've bought plenty of stuff from them (I'm in syd) and it usually delivers via courier the next day. In fact they seem to have a big range of their stuff if that's what your sold on including the tents footprints etc. Just go to their home page and search by brand.

http://www.mainpeak.com.au

Cheers

Mic

Edit: I have no affiliation with mainpeak other than happy online shopping experiences

[Franco]

Exped Polaris...
It is still the same material as it was.
When GE took bought eVent from BHA Technologies to avoid law suits (eVent is flammable) stipulated that shelters made from it could only be 70 cm high.
That was to restrict the design to bivies. (IE, no cooking inside it...)
So Rab re named their 85c cm high two crossed pole freestanding tent a 70 cm bivy and Exped changed eVent to 3 layer PTFE fabric (different name, same thing...)

I like this one a lot. One of the best designs of its type (4 season/expedition 2 person tent) .
In fact I like it better than the Biblers because it has way more ventilation options , breathes better (BPL tests ) and it is a true freestanding design including the supported and rain protected vestibule.
(too heavy for me...)
Bogong used to stock them.
Franco

[ULWalkingPhil]

Thanks Franco for clarifying that info on the Exped Polaris tent material. I read the same lines as you did in regards to the event material on this tent in regards to the flammable issues. I was not aware it's the same material and just a name change.

I looked into the Hilleberg tents, seen some free standing tents on the website, I'm not fussed on there design,

I think the Polaris is now back to the top of my list. I'm hopefull to make a decision by tomorrow morning and place a order as I want to use the new tent on a 4 day walk planned at Fraser Island in the next two weeks.

Anyone tried these tents out in our climate?

[durks]

I would not recommend a single wall tent for Australian conditions ...[snip]... single wall tents are really only good for very cold conditions with dry air ...[snip]...

For what it's worth, I agree. Modern single wall tents made from breathable fabrics are designed for mountaineering use. If you use them for bushwalking in Australia then, in rainy conditions, I think you'll get a lot of condensation. (In warm and dry conditions where you can vent the tent, there'll be no problem - but then, in those conditions, you don't really need a tent at all!)

A long time ago, we used a Snowdon Mouldings 'Limpet' single skin Goretex tent for a two week trip, and that's what we found: when it rained overnight, we got rather damp inside.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Condensation concerns me, Hate to spend this sort of money and get wet. That's the last thing I want.

More research needs to be done, There's not a lot of info on the web in regards to this tent, apart from a couple of videos on youtube from Exped themselves.

A free standing tent I would prefer, but there don't appear to be one out there with the features I am looking for that are in stock. Hilleberg tents look impressive, but I don't like the setup on there free standing tents, Much prefer the method similar to Exped tents, whereby you just slide the poles into a sleeve on the tent fly.
My old tent of 15 years has this feature and it's great.
Don't like anything you have to tie down or hook on. This Eureka tent I have here is a nightmare to put up in the rain, impossible to do with out soaking the inner tent.

[tasadam]

I wouldn't want to rush into a single wall tent for Australian conditions. At the end of the day it's your decision, but I for one have been down thge explatory path of tent replacement - my old tent lasted me well but, well, it got old... So I did all the research and found out about the single wall problems in Australian conditions. It might be onthe forum somewhere, haven't dome a search yet.. Many members don't visit every day, so you are likely to get more input as people discover this topic.
Best of luck. Oh, and I wish you were here so I can show you my Hilleberg in the flesh. Is there any reason why you prefer a free standing tent over say a tunnel?

[ILUVSWTAS]

I can vouch for Tasadams comments on Hillebergs. They are amazing!!

Dragged my Minaret out for a car camping trip recenlty, I forgot how good tunnel tents are, it is just a fantastic design, fastest tent I have ever set up (probably takes 1-2mins) absolutely bombproof, never gets condensation... I just wish it was 1kg lighter!!!

[tasadam]

I can vouch for Tasadams comments on Hillebergs. They are amazing!!

Dragged my Minaret out for a car camping trip recenlty, I forgot how good tunnel tents are, it is just a fantastic design, fastest tent I have ever set up (probably takes 1-2mins) absolutely bombproof, never gets condensation... I just wish it was 1kg lighter!!!

Isn't Minaret a Macpac?

[ULWalkingPhil]

I wouldn't want to rush into a single wall tent for Australian conditions. At the end of the day it's your decision, but I for one have been down thge explatory path of tent replacement - my old tent lasted me well but, well, it got old... So I did all the research and found out about the single wall problems in Australian conditions. It might be onthe forum somewhere, haven't dome a search yet.. Many members don't visit every day, so you are likely to get more input as people discover this topic.
Best of luck. Oh, and I wish you were here so I can show you my Hilleberg in the flesh. Is there any reason why you prefer a free standing tent over say a tunnel?

Hi tasadam,

Thanks for your help, I'll take your word on the single wall tent. I'll stick to the double wall. I didn't mind the looks of the Hilleberg you have, done some research on it in the past half hour, Looks to have plenty of room, I didn't mind the Model with the extra large vestibule. I wish I could see your tent. It's difficult spending so much money without seeing the product first.

I thought it would be a great feature to have a free standing tent. Just pick up and shake the sand out and move about with ease if I don't like the location or direction of tent.

[Nuts]

I'd agree Hilleberg or Macpac over Exped with that sort of money to spend. If your set on single wall make sure its big enough so you dont touch the sides. Exped do make good gear though. No experience with the Polaris myself.

Hilleberg do make freestanding tents just as capable as the tunnel designs (if a bit heavier). Check the Hilleberg website 'specials' bin first if that's the way you go

[ULWalkingPhil]

Looks like one of the Hilleberg tents it will be, With such great reports, i'd be a fool not to purchase one.

What's the story with the fabric? I never heard of the material used on the Hilleberg tents before, Is it a silicon coated Nylon?

[Nuts]

Their Kerlon fabrics are silicon coated (inside and out) they use both nylon (mainly) and polyester. Very light weights yet waterproof and strong.
The only caveat being that there are many lighter (overall) weight tents now on the market. Many people are prepared to work with these lighter tents compromises in order to save weight carried....

[ULWalkingPhil]

I'm considering this tent, I think with the sandy environment I need the heavier material. And the extra vestibule will be handy.

Hilleberg Nammatj 2 GT

[tasadam]

Those GT vestibules are huge, I've heard you can store a pushbike in them.
When are you doing the Overland track, and can you hold off til then so you can come and see my tent? Devonport area, Tas...
I don't want to change your mind, I just want to help you make sure you are making the right purchase for your needs...

[ninjapuppet]

Hi Phil, just got back from a trip cut short due to a friend getting bit by a snake- but that's another story.

I was a tent newbie not long ago and made the mistake you nearly did by shelling $1000 on a single skin BD lighthouse without much research or knowing it's intended use. Don't go that path unless you are mountaineering.

From your 2 choices, I have an exped Orion and have used a friend's a nemo Tenshi which is the only other tent that's made of eVent. The tenshi is the least condensing single skin I have used, but it still condenses. I guarantee you that it will condense in humid qld- it's a hardcore tent that belongs on everest. Pm me any questions you may have.

Hillebergs quality surpass exped handsdown. I have seen both kerlon 1200 and 1800 in the hillebergs and would believe the namatj is an overkill for your usage since it's desgned for extended epeditions. If you aren't going on any expedition soon, then go the lighter kerlon 1200. It's plenty stong for a significant weight saving. If you must get freestanding, I can recommend the Jannu.

[ILUVSWTAS]

I can vouch for Tasadams comments on Hillebergs. They are amazing!!

Dragged my Minaret out for a car camping trip recenlty, I forgot how good tunnel tents are, it is just a fantastic design, fastest tent I have ever set up (probably takes 1-2mins) absolutely bombproof, never gets condensation... I just wish it was 1kg lighter!!!

Isn't Minaret a Macpac?

Yes it is, sorry I should have made that clearer, I have a Hilleberg Akto. Also a Macpac Minaret. Both great tents, the Minaret is just too heavy though.

the Hilleberg is amazing, doesnt need seam sealing, the material is much stronger than other tents, quite light at 1.5kg, and very pretty.

[Nuts]

Yer, just remember also that a proper 4 season tent is designed to handle the worst weather, at the compromise of being ideal in the best weather. If i was buying a hilleberg tent mostly for summer or Queensland i'd look at also getting the hilleberg inner mesh tent option. the usual inner would be too hot (or think of getting a (lighter?) dedicated three season tent)

[Lizzy]

NP,
Don't forget to tell us that snakebite story- hope all is well!

[bluewombat]

Just to throw one more option into the mix, I have used an Aarn Pacer for a couple of years now, silnylon, absolutely bombproof due to the big alloy cross pole and the use of walking poles, free standing and the weight is under 2kg. Fantastically quick to set up, it has been out in heavy heavy rain and wind, no problems at all. I also have a single skin sil nylon that weighs under 1kg, I use this when I know the weather forecast is not too foul and I am not going to be out for days
bw

[ULWalkingPhil]

Hi Phil, just got back from a trip cut short due to a friend getting bit by a snake- but that's another story.

I was a tent newbie not long ago and made the mistake you nearly did by shelling $1000 on a single skin BD lighthouse without much research or knowing it's intended use. Don't go that path unless you are mountaineering.

From your 2 choices, I have an exped Orion and have used a friend's a nemo Tenshi which is the only other tent that's made of eVent. The tenshi is the least condensing single skin I have used, but it still condenses. I guarantee you that it will condense in humid qld- it's a hardcore tent that belongs on everest. Pm me any questions you may have.

Hillebergs quality surpass exped handsdown. I have seen both kerlon 1200 and 1800 in the hillebergs and would believe the namatj is an overkill for your usage since it's desgned for extended epeditions. If you aren't going on any expedition soon, then go the lighter kerlon 1200. It's plenty stong for a significant weight saving. If you must get freestanding, I can recommend the Jannu.

Hi ninjapuppet, The exped Orion was one of the tents on my list, if I could have found one with the Silicon Nylon Fly. No one has them in stock. I'm now more keen on the Hilleberg tents, I like the material used on these tents. The reason I'm seriously considering the Kerlon 1800 over the 1200 is something I read on the Hilleberg website in regards to the difference between the two Materials. Manufacturer recommends to use the Kerlon 1800 if your going to do a lot of camping in high wind sandy area's. One of my favorite area's I like to go camping is along our coastline, which is very exposed to the strong south easterly winds we can get, the sand is so fine here in places, that it feels like thousands of pellets are hitting you as you walk, and they can sting. Sand gets into everything, zippers etc. Hilleberg recommends to use the stronger 1800 material and they also come with a more heavy duty YKK zip than the 1200. Theres some pretty harsh conditions up my way. The tent will be used a lot in the mountains as well, particularly in the Mt Perry and Biggenden area's just west of us, as well as lot's of long walks at Fraser Island. I live just across the water from Fraser Island and I also go camping a lot in the mountains west of the Gold Coast, such as the Border Ranges and Lamington National Park. All these locations are very exposed to the elements. Hence my decision on one of the Hilleberg tents with the Kerlon 1800 and the stronger zippers. I think the extra vestibule can come in very handy in these conditions. My old tunnel tent has a very small vestibule which has been a pain in the past in stormy weather.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Those GT vestibules are huge, I've heard you can store a pushbike in them.
When are you doing the Overland track, and can you hold off til then so you can come and see my tent? Devonport area, Tas...
I don't want to change your mind, I just want to help you make sure you are making the right purchase for your needs...

Not till Feb or March next year tasadam before I tackle the Overland track, Most likely on my own. I'm heading of to do the Fraser Island Great Walk in the next couple of weeks.

[ULWalkingPhil]

This is another option I'm looking at.
Hilleberg
Nammatj 2

[iGBH]

I think if you do end up going for one of the heavier 1800 fabric Hillebergs you will be shopping around for a lighter tent shortly. I use a Nallo 3 GT which is an awesome tent, and for around 2.8kgs is on the heavier side. This of course uses the lighter fabric. My experience with it though is the quality is second to none and the strength is unquestionable. I would really be surprised if you really needed to go for the heavier fabric in QLD, after all they are more designed for extreme arctic conditions.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Thanks all, I've made my decision and ordered my new tent in the past half hour. After listening to all your advices. I've made a decision to purchase a Hilleberg Tent.

Which one you ask?

I've considered all suggestions and stayed away from the single wall tents.
The Hilleberg tent is made from the material I wanted, Silicon Coated Nylon.
I've went for a Tunnel Tent, as I'm familiar with the Tunnel tents after owning a 3 pole 4 season for 15 years.
Ease of erecting the tent is a very important feature I was looking for in a tent, The Hilleberg Tunnel tents look quick and easy to erect from the youtube videos I seen.
A free standing tent would have been a nice feature, but I didn't like what was offered. Looked a bit to fiddly to erect. and heavy for what they are.
Another very important feature was long lasting, I want a tent that's going to last me many years. This is a long time investment for me and a tent that's going to cater for my needs in the future, and very important offer comfort and plenty of room even when it rains.
After some very serious thinking and spending hours upon hours on the net, I've decided to purchase a Hilleberg Nammatj 2 GT from Moontrail at the US, also with the bonus points they offered I purchased a Exped Downmat 9 Deluxe sleeping mat and Titanium Pegs to keep the weight down on the tent.

I decided to go for the Heavier 1800 fabric. Even though it's a heavier material, all up the tent is still over half a kilo lighter than what I was carrying for the past 15 years, and I can save weight in other areas. My pack weight is just under 18Kg with my old tent and that's with a One Planet Mcmillan. I do own a excellent Therma-rest I purchased some 12 or 13 years ago which is still in great condition but it's heavy and takes up a lot of room in my pack. The Exped Downmat packed up is a third of the size of my Therma-rest

[ULWalkingPhil]

Oh, almost forgot to mention, I went for the Red color and not the green. I love bright colors. lol

I'll post some images when I receive my tent and offer reports on it after my trek on the Fraser Island Great walk in a couple weeks time. I hope the tent arrives in time, otherwise, I will put the trip of till the tent arrives.