Overland track with 7 year old

[geoffmallo]

Soon I'll be taking my 7 year old son on the overland track. I've posted a bit about why at my blog (http://geoffmallinson.com/2011/1/18/why ... land-track). There have been other posts here about taking kids in the bush and as such so I wanted to document our experiences and encourage others to take their kids on multi-day bushwalks. Reading Richard Louv's book 'Last Child in the Woods' has encouraged me to take my kids outside more (which we've always done a fair bit). One part especially stuck out to me, when outside in unstructured play (not organised sport), kids use all 5 senses to learn, while playing a computer game they'll only be using 2!

We'll be taking in pretty slowly and exploring/playing a lot. The worst part for me will be the weight. I'll be carrying pretty much all the food. He'll be carrying his sleeping gear and some clothes. His grandfather is coming along which should help with the dynamics when he's just over it (and me too).

If you have any tips then please share them to help make this trip a success.

You can follow the blog series (http://geoffmallinson.com/tags/overland-track) and where we are (thanks to SPOT) . Also I'm planning on making some sort of doco of the walk.

Twitter: @geoffmallo
Hashtag: #overlandTrack

[Funky_Bunch]

hey geoff, great to hear that your getting your kids out and about i dont have any tips but just wanted to share my support. dont let any of the naysayers get to you, i think its a great idea.

[Nuts]

Oh, well... all things becoming equal...

(assuming that he's mature enough to not inconvenience all the other walkers if you choose to spend a night in the huts)

Can he think through and be self sufficient enough to spend at least a night on his own and help in getting found?

Better a 'naysayer' than a 'told-you-soer' Richard Louv sells books, doesnt ensure safety. 'Nature deficit disorder', what a breakthrough

Sorry, I know my comments are no more useful than funky bunch's. You are looking for 'tips to make it a success', you seem to have a lot of experience and probably recognise that (as far as harsh reality is concerned) your son will be an induvidual, an inexperienced walker.... The decision has been made, it has been (and will continue to be) done even younger. You mention in your blogg that it is not a hard walk, i would remind the less experienced that (with weather changing everything) it can be as hard as anywhere, especially if anything more than just bad weather works against you. Good Luck

[geoffmallo]

Thanks Funky Bunch for the encouragement and Nuts for reading the blog post.

I don't think we'll be too much of a problem with others in the huts as we'll be in our tents most nights. We aren't doing this to be the youngest, I know there have been younger. But it'll be our adventure and an experience exploring our world together.

What does ensure safety? While there are some additional risks I bet we're more prepared with experience and necessary gear (and know how) than most who attempt this walk. He's been prepped on spending a night by himself, but more importantly IMHO we've put in place ways to minimise the chance of that happening. We're prepared for foul weather and will camp when necessary. Though I don't think it'll be as bad as climbing a 14er in Colorado in winter. But I do take your warning that things can and do change quickly.

I do want to encourage other who have children to take them on adventures in nature with them. A friend of mine recently had his daughter in a park and she got some dirt on her hands when she fell over. A friend's mother ran up and sanitised her hands immediately. He said 'Lame. I really need to work harder to protect my kids from that kind of thing.' It's not a campaign against sanitizer but an encouragement to take kids to the special places that those on this forum have come to love.

[Lindsay]

This sounds like an excellent idea, I wish I had been in a position to do the same when my kids were young. I don't have any advice to offer but wish you a great trip. The young bloke will love it.

[Nuts]

It's hardly dirty hands in a park geoff. As you know you'll be at the least a couple of hours from assistance, perhaps a couple of days if the weather gets bad.
Maybe a lifetime away?
At least hes old enough to be out of that numpty dumpty backpack...
I agree with the sentiment that kids should be encouraged into the bush but yours are adult size goals. Cradle & Barn Bluff....
What innate senses wouldn't be equally served by simple overnighters in the area?

[geoffmallo]

Nuts do you have kids?

I realize the side trips are optional. We'll take it as it comes. He's done more technical and just as remote climbing before and that was the highlight of previous trips. We'll be flexible and if we get to the base of Barn bluff we can just soak it in or try to ascend if our judgement says we should try.

IMHO the limitations of kids are their stamina on long days and their ability to carry weight. We've worked to mitigate both of these. For example if we attempt Barn Bluff it would be a day trip from waterfall valley.we have 12 days to walk 70kms. I'll be carrying his food and his pack weight will be quite low.

Sure we could do day walks in the area. But you know the extra attraction of a longer walk.

I know my son better than anyone else. I'm not a fearless person who takes any unnecessary risks. I plan for and mitigate risks as much as possible and if they are too great we don't go. I have been in situations when haven't climbed up, attempted a mountain or pushed on, i have made that hard decision. But with the right plans and equipment I believe a safe and fun trip can be had in this case. I don't believe we are taking any more risks than an inexperienced walker, less in fact. When I hear of someone running out of a hut with a liquid fuel stove dripping fire I think gosh, imagine if the hut with all their stuff burnt down. They'd spend the night out in possibly freezing conditions. That's far more dangerous than getting part way up a mountain, having the weather turn and turning around and camping early with a kid. Our decisions will be conserative. The pace relaxed.

Thanks for your questions as they encourage me to go over my plans (which already have had significant external input) to make sure I'm not doing anything stupid (while you may disagree).

With the right attitude, experience and equipment children can enjoy overnight bushwalking.

Nuts do you have a philosophical objection to children in remote places?

[Nuts]

Geoff, I did say overnighters, not day walks. I have no objection other than to unqualified support for philosophical over practical...
I guess it wouldn't be 'topic worthy' unless you had some doubts yourself, I guess the response would be an everyday 'so what'. You havent had any specific questions?
It is good to see that you appear to have thought things through in your defence. My comments I throw in here and there, in this case because your topic was listed outside of the Overland Track forum, otherwise I said similar for those visiting there: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5038&p=63511&hilit=children#p63511 and probably wouldn't have bothered.

[geoffmallo]

Thanks Nuts for you input.

I posted it here so others would be encouraged to take their kids walking. It's primarily about that hence why it's in the general forum.

Personally I've been inspired by other who take their kids walking.

[dtougas]

Geoff, I think what you are doing is great. I take my kids out on backpacking trips all the time, and the rewards are tremendous. Provided that you are prepared (which it sounds like you are), I don't think it is any more dangerous that taking your family on a road trip in the car, in fact it may even be safer. The experience and relationship you will develop with your son through at trip like this will be well worth it. If you are looking for some more inspiration, you should check out Granola Girl's blog, she and her son are currently on an 80 mile thru-hike in weather probably a lot worse than you will be experiencing: http://endofordinary.blogspot.com

I am looking forward to hearing how your trip goes!

[walkinTas]

I don't think it is any more dangerous that taking your family on a road trip in the car, in fact it may even be safer.

Well said.

Number 1 important thing as a parent: spend time with your kids. Number 2 important thing as a parent: talk to with your kids and actually listen to what they have to say. Number 3 important thing: do things with your kids so they have good memories of their childhood. Looks like you've got it covered.

My dad told me once that you should do something memorable with the family every year. That way when you looked back over the years you can remember each year by the things you've done. I think my dad was a smart guy!

[Nuts]

.

Number 1 important thing as a parent: spend time with your kids. Number 2 important thing as a parent: talk to your kids and actually listen to what they have to say. Number 3 important thing: do things with your kids so they have good memories of their childhood. Looks like you've got it covered.

My dad told me once that you should do something memorable with the family every year. That way when you looked back over the years you can remember each year by the things you've done. I think my dad was a smart guy!

This part I agree with

I don't think it is any more dangerous that taking your family on a road trip in the car, in fact it may even be safer.

This is often quoted but im not so sure, the media would be those to ask for positive support...

However, the topic does discuss a relatively remote walk and (seeks or) offers encouragement to do such. Obviously, with little left to say once the decision is made, surely individual experience and possible pitfalls deserve a mention! It is up to the reader to decide if the mention automatically makes the writer a 'naysayer' (takes all sorts), I dont see it as anything negative?

To me it appears more that some people (in their responsibilities as a parent) translate their own (perhaps negative?) experiences (or view of the world) into something that Requires over-compensation...

[walkinTas]

Obviously, with little left to say once the decision is made, surely individual experience and possible pitfalls deserve a mention! It is up to the reader to decide if the mention automatically makes the writer a 'naysayer' (takes all sorts), I dont see it as anything negative. ?

Clearly there are a lot of things to consider. The Season, gear, unexpected weather, relative fitness, experience, individual capability, etc, etc. This is true with or without a 7 year old. Taking a 7 year old walking on the OLT is not in itself a dangerous thing to do. Plenty of kids have done the walk. Not paying proper attention to all the other considerations might well be dangerous - very silly at the least. So, yes, read the precautions and prepare well.

[Nuts]

And I guess thats the point where I disagree, considerations like those you mention come from possible consequences (getting lost, hypothermic/hyperthermic, injuries, snakebite even). These consequences are potentially far more dangerous for the younger ones especially in remote locations. At what cost, a delay for a few years or the 'diminished' experience of a simple overnighter closer to immediate help?

Yes, many young children have been Taken through the Overland Track, i see a lot that no doubt gain a positive life experience ...

[walkinTas]

So, yes, read the precautions and prepare well.

And if, after reading and considering and preparing, you still have doubts about your son's ability to cope, then don't go. Do something where you are more certain he can cope. The OLT will still be there.

And I guess thats the point where I disagree

I don't think our differences here are all that big. I agree with you that preparation is important. There is a risk when one over generalises. I actually clipped the quote from dtougas a bit too much because he began with the clause "Provided that you are prepared", and that's the key here. Know what you are up against, be prepared and be sure you can handle it.

[Funky_Bunch]

should blind people be alowed to climb everest, where they cant see cornices, wind slab, crevases. yeah they should as they go with people to support their trip just as you should be able to guide you son through the beauty of Tassie.
A few years ago I was involved in the rescue of a mother and child (much younger than 7) from lake ada, in winter, from what was supposed to be an "simple overnighter" there were a combination of errors which left mum and child seperated from dad who had the pack. we left hobart at 10pm and were on the track by 4am geared briefed and driven to the end of the 4wd section. both found well although a bit shaken and choppered out by 10am.
so even on so called easy walks within the range of safety things happen.
nothing is as safe as the OHS people would like it (the world is being overtaken by the OHS police)

[RodLawlor]

Hi Geoff,

Not so you think I'm stalking you, but I also lurk over here!!

Since Nuts brings up lots of things that could happen, it's worth looking at what you can do to mitigate them.

My biggest deal with my kids was them getting separated, especially since there was two of them, and only one of me. I decided to go with the 'Hug a Tree' plan. Since they were only three when I took them on their first overnighters, I figured it was easier to just practice than explain. The biggest part of this was to get them to realise what 'Lost' meant. ie, at that age, if they're in the bush, and they can't see a grown up, they're 'Lost' Then we worked on what to do if this happens. Basically they find the closest tree, and go sit under it, and blow their whistle until someone comes.

We did lots of practicing this, with me calling out 'Lost' and them finding a tree. This progressed to me ducking behind a tree to call out, so they couldn't see me, and then to me stepping off the track and them realising on their own that they couldn't see a grown-up, and watching them find a tree and blow their whistle. This practice gave them a lot of confidence in the bush, since they now didn't have to be scared of being separated, since they knew what to do. As they got older (5 or 6) we also covered what to do if I got injured, since I was often the only adult out with them.

Snakebite is also a risk. We all wear gaiters on all trips, although with kids, I think bites to the hands are also a risk. Again, we practiced what to do when we see a snake. I think last week was the closest Macs came to one, as we watched a little White Lip wiggle off the Lake Ada track about a metre from his feet. He was very relaxed about watching it go. I always carry a couple of Setopress bandages with me.

I'm not sure I'd be too worried about hyperthermia, provided you use some common sense. Hypothermia can be a risk, especially when they get wet. The standard rules apply. Keep the food up to them. I have stopped taking lollies on kid trips, as I found they went up and down too much. I now stick with dried fruit, nut and M&M scroggin. (I know, but the fat in the nuts and M&MS helps flatten out the sugar spike) DON"T press on to the hut, especially with kids. You need to get the tent up straight away. Whack them in dry clothes if you can do it quickly, then into a sleeping bag with you. If you can't get dry clothes on fast, stick them in a large plastic bag, up to their neck, and into a sleeping bag with you. Remember that they won't be capable of generating their own heat initially, so you need to supply it. Get them right in against your skin, if you can.

Broken bones and sprains are most likely to come from falling off a tent or dunny platform. They'll hurt, but they won't kill you!!


Just to add some balance, Nuts has asked what you get from a trip like this, that you don't get from an overnighter. Well, I know my kids and my wife and I get a great sense of family. We learn (need) to be tolerant of each other, and work together to get stuff done. You can't hide from stuff on a ten day trip like you can on an overnighter. I know it gives me time to put away my impatience, and let kids do things their way. We get to play games that we don't have time for otherwise. We listen to each other better, and are more appreciative of each other. We talk about a broader range of things, more deeply than on a two day trip. We have time to get into a place more. We get a greater sense of adventure and achievement than on a two day trip.

As I said to you earlier, I chose not to take my kids on the OT, but I don't see any reason for you not to. I look forward to seeing some footage when you're done.

Rod

[Nuts]

Good post Rod At least it offers advice (and geoff already seems to have a level of experience)


As some know, I work out there but would hope in this instance that that fact wouldn't matter that much. I always just try to offer an opinion based on the common sense gained from the experience rather than harp on facts and figures, specific pitfalls that have happened (even if many have not been news worthy). It is hard to get across the relevance of a post this way but hopefully it provokes thought that everyone can relate to (regardless of experience). If in doubt (which really means almost Any doubt and covers Most of us), dont go.. Most of my opinions on these things are more general advice for the Average OT walker (after meeting many average OT walkers), just in case one happens to read this topic....I like to stick to general opinions because to give Specific advice I would also feel like i was taking responsibility (either way))

Yes, the topic was about more than just the Overland Track but it is the one mentioned.

I have helped people in trouble and it doesnt take an event to happen to have a guess at just how many have the potential to get into trouble, even adults. Even otherwise intelligent adults.

It should always be assumed that No help will be available! Would you still take them if there was no quick flight out or assistance when things go wrong?

But to give a general thumbs up to also take the kids off into this unknown...From what ive seen there is just too much potential for misinterpretation without someone questioning taking kids so young. Afterall, its always 'someone else' in the news headlines right.. I stand by my concerns...

[geoffmallo]

Great post Rod. I like the hug a tree practice. We've done a similar thing. In our favour for this trip is there are two adults to the one kid. I've replied to your post on my site and we'd be very interested in doing some walking in the future with you guys.

I wrote down some of my thoughts on a risk assessment at http://geoffmallinson.com/2011/1/25/ris ... k-children

While I think separation has significant ramifications, in our situation I feel it is very unlikely to happen.

[juju]

I haven't walked the OT but I've just finished reading an article in a friend's 'Great Walks' mag (August/September) about a family of five who did the OT, mum, dad, two boys (seven and nine) and a girl (four). The article is called 'Mud, sweat and tears'. It has some good info.
I have been walking with my son since he could and he did his first overnighter, a hard 23km, when he was 10 and has done short overnighters each year since. Long walks with younger kids can be hard on parents, just as long train plane or car trips can. Kids aren't silly, it has to be fun or else why do it? Oh the endless games to pick up the spirits if there are boring bits when all you want to do is meditate on your footsteps and keep your own boredom at bay.
But it's worth it.
It you wait 'till your kids are - how old is old enough? you may miss the boat. It's an investment.
I'm not going into the safety stuff, of which I'm sure you are aware (are you an experienced bushwalker or overnight walker?) but isn't the OT track fairly well frequented by other walkers and parks ticket checkers?
Since there will be a man either side of the little one (but let him go first sometimes...he may walk faster) you won't lose him. That young - I wouldn't let him out of my sight.

[Nuts]

It you wait 'till your kids are - how old is old enough?

Good question.

On the parks website they dont commit. I believe the stance is 'we dont recommend taking young children'.. In typical 'please all' fashion they they then offer free pass to those under 5...
(Without checking) I believe most tour businesses set the lower age at 12. For us it is the same (though we do listen to parents of those from mature 10+yo's) The point is not so much made of age but 'capacity'.

To me, it is not enough to simply 'hug a tree & blow a whistle', they need to be able to carry and (have the basic ability to use) equipment that will keep them sheltered overnight.

The fact that these commercial group age limits are set at 12 should provoke thought. They come from combined experience going back to the 60's (here in Tassie) and at the expense of Many lost bookings...

[RodLawlor]

Hi Geoff,

I'll comment here, since that is where my post is. I took a look at your plan, and most of it is pretty much common sense, but still worth thinking through.

I noticed in your separation plan, that Dan should contact other adults if seen. This is very sensible, but it's worth thinking this through just a bit, since you've started down the process. It's possible (likely?) that they will also have no clue what to do with a small unaccompanied child found in the bush!! Have a think about what you'd like them to do with him, write it down, and put it somewhere easy to find and unlikely to get lost (eg pinned inside a top pocket of a pack or shirt) so Dan can hand it over if needed. This could be along the lines of 'If found, stay put' or 'If found, please accompany to the next south bound hut on the OT'

I agree that it's VERY unlikely that you will get separated, but the parents of every child I've ever been on a search for (including 40yo children) thought exactly the same thing. Teaching and PRACTICING this stuff before it happens will help to prevent that absolute gutwrenching trauma if it ever does. Plus it means you know what he SHOULD be doing if it happens, and can plan based on that. I'll dig out the stats when I get home, but most kids are found within I think 400m of point last seen. It's how long it takes to find them that's the problem.

As well as the sleeping bag, my kids also carry a jacket with a hood, and a 240l wheelie bin liner bag. Bag goes in the bin liner bag, jacket over the top of the whole lot. (If you have access to yellow hazardous waste bags, these are even better)

I agree with Nuts, that it's the little stuff that catches you out. A stove that fails, or a tent that burns!! But I also don't think that this is a reason not to go. Would I go out there if there was no quick way out if it all goes wrong.......absolutely. Last trip I did with the family, the Sat phone failed on day two of an eight day walk. I had no PLB as back up. There really was no consideration of not continuing. I've spent enough time around kids to know that it's the lack of adventure and risk taking in their lives that screws them up in the end, not the other way around. I also know that kids have their lives irrevocably changed in a heartbeat, crossing the road in front of school. There's nothing in the bush that scares me anywhere near as much as what I see around me every day in the city. Be aware of the risks, take steps to minimise them, be prepared to be responsible for the consequences. It's really what parenting is all about, isn't it, whether you take your kids down the Overland, or buy them an X-box?

Would I advise that someone who'd never taken their kids on an overnight walk do the Overland Track with them. Definitely not, but Geoff doesn't look like that's the case. I'd rather offer advice that safely gets as many kids and families out there as possible. It's hard to believe that people are impressed that you'd take kids on a four day walk around the Prom Circuit, but sadly it's true.

[RodLawlor]

To me, it is not enough to simply 'hug a tree & blow a whistle', they need to be able to carry and (have the basic ability to use) equipment that will keep them sheltered overnight.

I agree Nuts, but I've spent a few nights in a plastic bag myself (mostly without the sleeping bag) It's not as comfy as a Minaret, but it is kind of fun!! I think one of the main things that worked for my kids was to practice using these skills, and to correct and improve them as we went. (Am I harping on here??) Plus, they LOVED it. Playing 'Lost" was one of their favourite games when they were younger, and we would often spend twenty minutes at lunch discussing the pros and cons of 'lost' trees. eg this one gives better coverage, but you'd be harder to see from the track. That one would be good if the wind changed. Which way does the weather come in from here? I'm still stunned that these lessons seem to now be hardwired when we're out there.

[geoffmallo]

Rod your comments are valuable. We will be practising the 'lost' procedure.

If Dan gets separated he will be carrying a synthetic sleeping bag, sleeping mat, an emergency blanket bag (the type that's like a big bivvy sack so he can hop inside and keep dry), whistle, laminated instructions (like you have suggested), jacket with hood, over-pants, beanie and a small amount of food.

At the risk of being shouted down I have also considered to let him carry the PLB. He has be versed in it's proper use only when in a situation of grave and immanent danger (life threatening). From knowing him I think he would not set it off immediately he got 'lost'. I think he would use it only when necessary, but there aren't really guarantees, so for now I haven't decided about that.

As mentioned in juju's post am I experienced?

While I don't feel the need to justify my level it may be helpful for those who come and read this post who are thinking of taking kids bush.

I can't list the trips I've done because there are too many and I can't remember them all. However I have done (and often led the small party) things like:
Western Arthurs full traverse
Federation Peak (didn't climb it and turned back early due to injury)
Overland track (solo)
A bunch of stuff in the main range (generally in winter and some in summer)
The usual Budawangs stuff (castle, monolith valley, various routes) along with off track stuff
The usual Blue mountains stuff (solitary, kanangra, colo, grose, including off track and Wollemi stuff)
Vic alps stuff like Mt Howitt
Stuff overseas in Colorado, Yosemite and NY including winter ascents of mountains
QLD stuff like Mt Lindsay

Dan's done overnighters and a 3 dayer before generally in the Blue Mountains.

[rogo]

I have walked with both of my boys. I did short walks but still o/ners with my then 5 to 6yr old and its difficulty would equal the OT. He hated it and since then, he is now 12, has refused to come with me. The older boy is a great walking partner and we have done multi day walks together. He is now in his 20's.
I walked the OT last year in peak season. It was the 1st time I have walked the track. I see you are doing the walk in Feb. Is there a huge difference in traffic between Jan and Feb? If not, then the track is like a highway. I don't think we had more than 200 metres on either end of us without another walker. In saying that, I am sure your son will be well looked out for by other walkers whether you like it or not.
Have you thought what happens if the older member of your group finds the walking harder than expected? Do you have the energy to keep 2 walkers motivated and maybe shoulder extra weight from him? I saw this on my walk, a slightly more than middle aged man found the walking really tough and at times, others had to carry his bag whilst he rallied all his strength to get to the next hut. He said he was experienced!
Rest days are great, glad to hear you are taking your time. Take cards and pencils and paper and travel games ( if you can find really light ones),and a squishy ball. Enjoy your time together and I am sure it will be a fabulous time for you all.

Ro

[juju]

this...

Just to add some balance, Nuts has asked what you get from a trip like this, that you don't get from an overnighter. Well, I know my kids and my wife and I get a great sense of family. We learn (need) to be tolerant of each other, and work together to get stuff done. You can't hide from stuff on a ten day trip like you can on an overnighter. I know it gives me time to put away my impatience, and let kids do things their way. We get to play games that we don't have time for otherwise. We listen to each other better, and are more appreciative of each other. We talk about a broader range of things, more deeply than on a two day trip. We have time to get into a place more. We get a greater sense of adventure and achievement than on a two day trip.
Rod

and this...

My dad told me once that you should do something memorable with the family every year. That way when you looked back over the years you can remember each year by the things you've done. I think my dad was a smart guy!

is so good it needs repeating. I wish I'd read the last paragraph years and years ago...
A friend was deciding on whether to do something or not and I asked her 'Do you think you'll regret it if you do it or regret it if you don't?'. I know some careful people might have lots of objections to this and find it quite a rash idea, but you know...I have more regrets for the things I haven't done in life than things I have done.

[juju]

Sorry geoffmallo I didn't mean to question your experience at all - it was a sort of hypothetical. As I see from your site you have your eyes open. I'm quite envious, my son is a teenager now and, well, he's changed from that innocent openly enthusiastic youngster that I had influence over and who wanted to follow me anywhere... Julie

[plaz]

Sounds like a great trip, Geoff. My experiences, for what they are worth: My seven year old will happily walk for about 10 ks over three sessions, as long as the track is interesting. On a fire trail interest wanes fairly rapidly,and in extremes of weather, she voices very quickly the thoughts that we are all secretly having - why are we doing this, its no fun. It is usually hard to come up with a good answer, so we bow to the childhood logic and go back or stay put. In many ways she really likes the camping aspects (the tent,mucking around the campsite playing games the chocolate and bikkies, the sleeping together,all going to bed early) etc more than the walking, and whether we walk 2 or 10 ks makes little difference to her enjoyment of the day. My 10 year old, on the other hand, gets a buzz out of interesting walking,loves a bit of a scramble or creek swim and will accept bad weather without getting miserable as long as she is warm.

We have only done one single night overnight walk with the kids, so I have little real experience (won't stop me from rambling)- it was great, but not any different from car camping and day trips for them. More satisfying for my partner and I as it meant getting back to the sort of walking we really enjoy together. I think having happy parents interested in the world is good for kids, so there is nothing wrong in wanting to get something for yourself out of a trip - in my family if its always all about the kids daddy gets grumpy and then no one is happy.

As for getting lost or separated, I can't really see how it could happen, but I guess that's what they all say. We take little walkie talkies (Aldi $60). Works OK over about a km, allows the girls to go off by themselves and stay in contact. On a long trip battery life would be a problem. We especially use them cross country skiing, where differential speeds are more noticeable. And they are just fun, too - they lend themselves to silly games involving spies and hide and seek.

Another option for teaching bush independence in general is the sport of orienteering. Most big cities have clubs with events open to all comers and skill levels. Kids start off going in family groups until about 8/9/10 when they start doing easy courses by themselves (about half an hour). They learn map reading , compass use and route planning skills, and how to be in the bush alone. Inevitably they will eventually get lost as they get over confident, and learn what this feels like, and either relocate themselves, or learn what it is like to wait for the searchers to arrive! (The kids courses are always set along tracks in ways that ensure they can't stray too far, and as the bush is full of experienced runners doing harder courses a folorn looking child will usually be pointed in the right direction before they get too distressed.) I have found this a good option for those years when there are only a few hours available on the weekends and real walking is curtailed.(Daddy and mummy get to go for a run too on a harder course while the kids are out so everyone is happy - its a change from standing around the edge of the soccer/netball/cricket field watching the kids have all the fun.

Finally (forgive the long post) I have read the book "last child in the woods" and have mixed feelings. On first reading I thought it was great, but as I thought about it more I came to the conclusion that it is just another parenting manual by a baby boomer who has idealised his own childhood and mistaken his own passion and experiences for a universal human need.(baby boomers do this a lot}. It's fine if you like outdoor stuff (like me and you), but if you don't then it is just another parenting recommendation to fail at. And I just don't believe that all those millions of children around the world brought up in very urban cultures, in slums, in highrises, in military camps and on the streets are screwed up because they never got the chance to build forts in the woods. One could just as easily make the argument that there is not enough exposure to music creation (we just listen to cds, we don't sit around the piano and sing, and we all know how important music is for brain development) or drama (we read books, we don't sit around telling stories) or tinkering (we take the car to the mechanic,rather than help dad change the oil)...If a parent is passionate about any of these things then of course they view it as an essential part of childhood...but the child may just say "meh". Louv makes some good points about the effect of technology on the brain etc - but part of me says isn't that just what the older generation always says about the younger - "things aren't what they used to be...."
Literary criticism aside, have a great trip. And hells bells, chillax dudes,its only the overland track and he has thought about it heaps....

Cheers adrian,

[Moondog55]

Is the overland Track any harder that Mt Hotham to Falls Creek?/
my son was 8YO when we did it, biggest problem he had was sheer *&%$#! minded 8YO laziness on day 3, it passed as soon as I put his pack on my back and walked away ( visibility was brilliant and I was always in sight ) he and his older sisters had a ball; we did only one practice camp before setting out.
He did carry ALL of his own safety gear and new how to dress properly, he carried a small pack that held his sleeping bag and Goretex bivvy sac ( His mother was a short-arse so her stuff was the correct size; he was a big 8YO ) he carried his own wet weather gear/ windproofs, warm top, hat and mittens and his own eating stuff and water bottle and he was tired but coped very well with his 8kilo load.
He also had both a torch and whistle and a Cyalume stick, personally i think the light stick was a big physiological boost for him just in case he got lost as the rule to stay was never tested
Hug-A -tree is a really good idea that follows on from basic first grade life saving training ( grab a stick and yell for help) Boredom was never a problem and he ( and his sisters ) slept like logs every night and when it rained he was in heaven.
He is 23 now and he still talks about that trip

[geoffmallo]

We've now set up a landing page on our website and some feed magic for while we're walking. My son's school class is going to be following the trip and learning about the Tasmania wilderness world heritage area too which is awesome.

http://geoffmallinson.com/overland-track

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