Down V Synthetic Warm Stuff?

[Nuts]

Reading some reviews and discussion on a US forum about this topic. From what ive noticed most Tassie walkers seem to have always used down sleeping bags and (in colder months) down jackets and so on.
It was interesting to read a couple of comments from those in the north west states. They were describing the need for synthetics in conditions (at times of the year) that sound remarkably similar to Tassie (in the minuses, lots of rain).

I'm looking at getting some lighter weight personal gear, winter sleeping bag, jacket, maybe some insulated pants. I have noticed (after being out for several wet days) that down stuff does tend to start to 'feel' a bit damp. There is mention that its wise to have at least some synthetic layers or a synthetic bag. I did notice that the constant wicking through my down bag last winter was leaving the shell wet, perhaps the moisture still inside was building up over days..

Any thoughts?

Anyone use insulated pants?

[alliecat]

I have a down quilt and I chose a synthetic insulated jacket for exactly the reasons you note - it's a little bit of insurance if the down gets wet. I haven't used synthetic insulated pants but only because I have a pair of fleece pants that I use. If my quilt got soaked, I'd be okay (not really comfortable if it was really cold perhaps, but safely okay) with all my clothes on as long as I was out of the wind.

I think the combination of synthetic insulation and down is a good compromise. You could go a synthetic sleeping bag with down pants and jacket if you preferred.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Drifting]

My climashield sleeping bag does just as well as down, and weighs less too. But it does not pack down as small. Same for my wife's, which is a different brand. It is MY OWN, PERSONAL opinion that down is overrated for the price.

You may now fling your rotten tomatoes.....

[Nuts]

Er... who me? I had a marmot synthetic bag a few years ago and have used down since as i thought they were unnecessarily bulky and heavy. I have recently been looking at some of the more modern designs, especially some of the cut down quilt type both down and synthetic.... Thinking of a good sleep 'system' (combined with insulated clothing) for local winter use.

What particular bags do you use?

Whats sort of quilt AC?

Iv'e been reading about the BPL Quilt, odd idea but may be a way to get the best of both (it only weights around .7kg).... (and has synthetic fill):

bpl_ul240quilt_md.jpg (59.7 KiB) Viewed 10133 times

[Liamy77]

i use a synthetic bag (kayaking so size and weight less of an issue) just as warm as a down bag and comfier as it cushions more than down under compression i think....warmer damp too..... also have a down vest for colder nights.... would like to add a downmat in for comfort at some stage (nallo 2 first, then new boat...)
could have them already but have to buy food dammit

[alliecat]

Whats sort of quilt AC?

These ones: JRB large quilts.

We (my wife and I) got two - one Mt Rogers and one Katahdin. In the summer we just use a double silk liner and one quilt over us - plenty warm. In cooler times we take the two quilts and drape them over us both with the sides tucked under our sleeping mats. On solo trips I take one and either use it as a quilt or do up the velcro and use as a normal bag. So the two together gives us lots of versatility; that's the main reason we got them.

I wouldn't mind a lighter synthetic quilt for solo use (either the BPL or the MLD quilts would do) but I can't really justify the expense when what I have works fine.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Tony]

Hi Nuts,

I have been using a BPL 180 quilt for a few years now, I use it alone in the warmer months and to supplement my LW winter bag when cold.

I have used the 180 quilt alone in sub zero temps, the performance is quite good, the only issue I have is that I do not like the opening at the back, I find that when I roll over I get a cold back, I would like to zip it up sometimes.

The main advantage of synthetic insulation is that it performs better than down in cold damp conditions but it does not last as long as down, it does loose its lofting ability much quicker that down. I do not compress my BPL 180 too much to try to keep it it in good condition for as long as possible.

Here is a good article on insulation

Insulation: Sleeping Bags, Quilts, Etc

and a BPL debate on down vs synthetic insulation.

Tony

[Nuts]

Liam, looks like a good plan, i think you could do better than that mat but they are warm and comfortable.
AC, what a great idea those quilt designs look.
Tony, thanks for the links I will read through. That was my thought with that quilt. I sleep mostly in the recovery position so might have some trouble.
Have you seen these :

klymitpad.jpg (60.28 KiB) Viewed 10020 times

[MJD]

I have some reservations about getting down wet and it becoming useless, therefore I do own a number of synthetic items. However, I find down to be considerably warmer. In anything but winter I use a synthetic sleeping bag (mountain hardwear ultra laminar) with either a thermolite or silk liner depending on the forecast. I have also just got one of these magnificent down jackets (Crux Plasma Jacket) that has an Event outer shell. Yet to be used in wet conditions but it certainly passed its first test the other weekend. The outer shell is noticeably more robust than other down jackets that I have owned or seen.

http://www.crux.uk.com/en/down-clothing ... product=24

[Dale]

That Crux jacket is a nice piece of kit. All you need now are matching pants and you'll have a complete condensation proof sleep system ! Then you can leave the sleeping bag at home

[Nuts]

That does look like a nice jacket, not overly heavy with a waterproof shell, nice one. Ive heard people say Crux make great stuff!

I ended up with lots of layers but actually lighter than what I had.. Havent tried a synthetic quilt but mixed in some synthetic insulation and under layer clothes.

[Stibb]

I have also just got one of these magnificent down jackets (Crux Plasma Jacket) that has an Event outer shell. Yet to be used in wet conditions but it certainly passed its first test the other weekend. The outer shell is noticeably more robust than other down jackets that I have owned or seen.

http://www.crux.uk.com/en/down-clothing ... product=24

Ooooh! That is a nice looking jacket indeed. *adding jacket to my really-want-list*

MJD, I would be very interested to hear how you two will get along in various conditions

[MJD]

Had the Crux Plasma Jacket in the Walls ofJerusalem over the weekend. It was about -3C at breakfast and the jacket was perfect. Had a baselayer on (Under Armour BaseMap Relaxed Fit) and lightweight trousers (Montane Terra).

Nuts - what event bivy?

[mattmacman]

Time to weigh in =D
I personally love down, as everyone knows down fails epically when wet, i use a mountain hardware banshee with a fully waterproof shell and i can say its bullet proof, ive tipped three litres over the shell (a slow pour) and it was fine. Combined with the fact that i always use a tent (never a stinjy tarp setup) and that all my gear is in individual dry bags i am super confident that it will be fine. As for the matter of security i carry thin merino base layers and a thick fleece, for some reason that i dont know it is imposible to get a cold when the merino is soaked even if you are (not sure how it works it just does). For a synthetic bag the synthetic tech is getting better, look at snugpack bags they use a insulation called softie that is curled with machines that lofts more like down rather than beign straight fibres that dont loft as much.

[Stibb]

Had the Crux Plasma Jacket in the Walls ofJerusalem over the weekend. It was about -3C at breakfast and the jacket was perfect. Had a baselayer on (Under Armour BaseMap Relaxed Fit) and lightweight trousers (Montane Terra).

Great! Thanks for the update

[Bluegum Mic]

Must say a tyvek sleeping bag cover also does wonders to help condensation probs with a down sleeping bag. Last night I was camped by a creek (bordering on a river so reasonable body of water) and the condensation was crazy. Within two minutes of pitching the tent it had condensation on it inside and out (we didn't get in the tent for another hour). I slept in my down bag and tyvek cover and remained bone dry at all times. I actually over heated at around 11pm (funnily enough when some rain started) and even then I would have expected some moisture coming off me but nothing. It was very good at allowing the moisture out but not in. Overall very happy. My little tipi also did as it should and allowed the condensation to just roll down it's walls. Not a drop came down on us or landed on the nest.

[Bluegum Mic]

Double post. Sorry

[Nuts]

Given the right conditions the condensation could blow off, i like some sort of waterproof covering. Tyvek is nice and cheap.

My latest bivy mjd ( i go through them) is a rab summit (?) event one (it was less than a hundred $..). I'm thinking its ok for winter or as backup in a shelter but has no mesh. I have a mld biv and its really nice but not waterproof. I like waterproof... who cares what the tent does, right

Im thinking if mld start making their event top/cuben bottom bivy again i'll grab one, theyre very light for a w/p breathable bivy. (hmmm maybe b/gum will make me one.. )

mmm...I can understand the attraction of a 'waterproof' shell sleeping bag in a tent (especially one that doesnt handle condensation well), other than that there are usually lighter options in the same models. In anything other than a traditional 'tent' a waterproof bivy must be a better choice, despite the jug test, no sleeping bag is truly waterproof in the same way a bivy is and inside a bivy a very light shell sleeping bag lofts easier.. A sleeping bag with perhaps an event shell (or breathable cuban but i dont think its passed testing yet) sounds ok but it would need to have minimal seams and be light enough to let the down loft..

[mattmacman]

To clarify, yes nuts you are completely right as i mentioned thought i only ever use a tent (unless of course theres huts avaliable <3 ) and a 'water resistance' shell like the conduit that can withstand three litres of water is my defenition of waterproof in the way of bags. I see what you mean though in the meaning of waterproof you mentioned as in a shell that when youre tent gets ripped to shreds and litre after litre of water rains hell youll be warm as a bug in a rug. And was the RAB bivi you bought the bivi tent? I was looking at getting a rab tent bivi (summit superlite) however theres no reviews ANYWHERE! Cheers in advance nuts!

[Nuts]

just their flat everday type event bivy matt, i sleep under either a big tarp or some form of tarp style structure a lot so it gives a bit of 'piece of mind' Ive always used the OR goretex bivy till now, havent used this one much (just a night in a leaky hut so far tbh ), i expect it to act the same way waterproof wise, hopefully 'breathe' better. Time will tell.

[Franco]

About that Rab Summit Superlite, it is a tent not a bivy (except for the official definition)
The 70cm height is at the entrance not the apex . This is to comply with the eVent specs set up by GE.
Similar in size to the Bibler i Tent/(BD Firstlight

Looks like this :

(I am 172 cm tall)
Franco

[MJD]

There is a "Rab Superlight Bivi" as well that looks more like the "traditional" bivy bag.

[sailfish]

I am thinking of getting a G-Loft jacket, about 700g -15 C (whatever that means).
Looking around a bit, it seems about on par for weight and price with down jackets, in fact lighter than some.

G-Loft AKA memory insulation is supposed to be a bipolymer crimped hollow fibre, recover loft very quickly even from long periods of compression. Anyone use it, know other trade names or recommend a better fill?

Regards,
Ken