My new setup.

[ninjapuppet]

just received my HMG windrider pack: the final piece of the puzzle in my quest to go ultralight. I had a lighter pack but it had no frames so this is ideal.
To be honest, i feel very comfy carrying a 20kg base weight, but i do this just for fun.

Managed to dip below 3kg for my full setup whilst still being reasonably comfortable (ie, bug protection, hot meals)
Here is my setup for a 3 day/2 night trip into the blue mountains in summer.

TOTAL BASE WEIGHT: 2993g

Hexamid full setup .....................270
Cuben groundsheet.....................61
MLD spirit quilt..........................389
Neoair....................................396
HMG windrider pack....................660

60ml metho in bottle...................64
Long spoon to eat freeze dried........11
Jap lighter...............................15
MLD 850 pot.............................99
Caldera ULC set.........................36
Caldera Inferno set......................51

Drinking bladder.........................147
Filter cloth.................................4
Steripen..................................125
Tektowl....................................14


Caribiner towel............................25
Dermasafe knife...........................8
Tenkara set + flies.......................172
Photon light.................................9

Mini first aid kit...........................75
Maps.......................................140

Hygeiene kit ..............................222
Cuben drysack, toothbrush set, snow peg *&%$#! digger, toilet paper, deodorant, detergent, deet, soap, sunscreen, hand sanitisers, mozzie head net (to get the BPL one)


NOTES can go lighter by:
- Using a zpacks’ blast at 210g. I experimented with a friend’s zpack, but i prefer my framed pack.
- Ive got a multimat that weighs 1/3 of the neoair, but neoair is comfy.
- Ditch the Tenkara, but that has a permanent spot in my pack.
- Hygeine kit has really droped thanks to those mini dropper bottles
- inferno set incase i run out of metho or catch fish, i can burn wood.
by replacing a few things, its possible to get down to 1.7kg but that is just silly and uncomfortable. with my 3kg setup, i still feel quite comfy.

Gonna give this kit a shot next weekend and report back how it goes, especially going about gutting fish with a toy knife, or getting stuff done with a mini led light.

That maps not much lighter than gps, but still prefer to navigate the old fashion way.

[Son of a Beach]

That does sound like a more comfortable weight to be carrying!

Do you really need deodorant, detergent and soap? Removing these could cut your weight even further (admitedly by very little). The detergent and soap are particularly frowned upon by some people in the wilderness (I have no problems with a small number of people using a small amount, but it does have the potential to cause problems in sensitive environments). I've never carried either and never missed any of them while bushwalking. I don't take hand sanitiser either, and have never got gastro, but I'm careful what I do, and I don't think it's likely to have environmental problems like soaps and detergents could.

I guess I'm a stinky dirty mess though, while walking.

[Tony]

Hi Ninjapuppet,

Nice list, with the Hexamid tent what do you use for your pole and pegs and are they included in the 270g.

Tony

[Drifting]

Ohhhh if I could only get away with that in Tassie! My bae weight is something like 9 kg if I'm walking alone, or 12-13 if I'm with my daughter.

[ninjapuppet]

The hand sanitiser is mainly to squirt abit on the toilet paper as tinder if required. it burns very long!
the soap and detergent arent generally used, except maybe in the odd occasion i manage to catch a fish because handling fish tends to leave a lingering smell on my hands.

The hexamid weight is cheating abit because i didnt include the weight of my walking poles. but i used a tree branch on the weekend and it worked well enough and thats the thing i like about these types of tents. I cant do that with conventional tents.

Its definitely not a setup for tassie with the quilt and tent like that, but might give some people an idea of what to get for general bushwalking in other parts of the country.

[Son of a Beach]

the soap and detergent arent generally used, except maybe in the odd occasion i manage to catch a fish because handling fish tends to leave a lingering smell on my hands.

Ah yes... now THAT I can understand.

[andrewbish]

Hi Ninjapuppet

Is that the NeoAir small? (Am wondering about the sleeping experience of a less than full length mat with the quilt)

Also, I notice you don't carry a PLB - measured risk?

Bisho

[ninjapuppet]

Thanks andrew, forgot the PLB. I first thought it be unlikely for me to suffer a serious mishap in my local national park, but probably a good idea for the sake of saving someone else.

ive been going over Andrew Skurka's gear list on his adventures and for everything bar the most wild expeditions, he doesnt carry his sat phone with him. A calculated risk I presume.
http://www.andrewskurka.com/hikes_index.php.

That neoair is the full length 180cm version. I found the 2/3 air mat increased the lumbar lordosis too much and couldnt keep the vertebrae aligned to neutral.

[ILUVSWTAS]

That neoair is the full length 180cm version. I found the 2/3 air mat increased the lumbar lordosis too much and couldnt keep the vertebrae aligned to neutral.

Interesting. I use a 3/4qtr size NEO, and I suffer back pain. Now you've got me thinking. I do however carry an inflatable camp seat and use this at the bottom of my NEO so it is practically a full length mat.

You've definately given me something to think on though......

[Jellybean]

Nice kit NP. I will be interested to hear your report. (I'm particularly interested to hear more from yourself and Tony about the performance of the Hexamid over time in various conditions). One of these days I think I'm going to have to try a Caldera set too.

Re the Neo, because the full length mat is still so light, I agree that it's better to use the full length mat rather than try and reduce weight a little further by using the shorter version. I'm more than happy to carry that little extra weight for the comfort provided.

Cheers,

JB

[andrewbish]

Hi NP

Had a look at the Andrew Skurka site - amazing stuff. I am pressed to find 3 days to get away, let alone 3 months or more! Jealous.

I have a 25yo 3/4 Thermarest. No back issues..yet. Do you see any potential issues of using a quilt like yours with it?

[Macca81]

I have a 25yo 3/4 Thermarest. No back issues..yet.

i suspect your 25yo thermarest would be no more than 25mm thick, where as the neoair is considerably thicker, as such the drop off while sleeping on it is greater... i dont think a normal thickness thermarest(or simmiler) will give issues for back etc...

[andrewbish]

Hi Macca

For the record my old mat is 3.4 cm thick. However, I had a look at the Neo Air and at 2.5" (6.4cm) it's almost twice the thickness of my 'classic' Thermarest - so your point is still valid.

I am def going to take a closer look at that quilt..

Cheers

[ninjapuppet]

Sounds good. Thanks!

Having a full unfold would be handy - was it an additional cost?

Also, did you go with the eVENT FOOT AND HEAD STRIP option?

Ron didnt charge extra, but he would charge you extra $30 if you wanted to go with the momentum 50 fabric to shed off another 100 grams

I didnt bother with the eVent strips since i'd always have my bivy with me or the net inner with a pyramid setup. Also, its synthetic so even if it did get wet, its less stress and easy to dry anyway. i will use it as part of a sleep sytem like tony's to take me well into -10 degrees C
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5123

[Bluegum Mic]

Hi ninjapuppet,

Just a thought but perhaps you could use the antibacterial wet ones that come in a soft pack. Mind you I haven't checked weight of them but i find them super at getting fish smell of hands not to mention you could use instead of ze squirt of sanitiser on the loo paper. I usually carry a roll of toilet paper (us gals do use a bit more) and a pack of wipes. Also good to freshen up under the arms etc after a long day.

Oh and I can vouch for the potential to carry a PLB even on your local trail. Before having kids I would walk this track most weekends and could almost do it blindfolded. That didn't stop me from catching my toe on a rock and tearing the ligament between the tibia and fibula for about 5cm and cracking my talar dome in my ankle. I was just lucky I had some handsome friends with me to carry me out. Wasn't such a bad outcome after all

[Nuts]

Your bivy doesnt appear on the list?
What bivy do you have np? I have the superlight from mld with that momentum fabric /event foot. Very light but curiously, I find that it gets a lot warmer (plastic bag like clammy) than the (much heavier) goretex OR bivy i was using. I spoke to them about a full event top but (more curiously) they think it would be even warmer (and heavier)... Maybe in their local conditions they dont notice as much 'breathability' as an issue...?

[Nuts]

A 15 pack o wet ones is 75g (just happened to have them n the scales in front of me

[ninjapuppet]

Ive got the bozeman mountain works Vapr bivy in size large which uses pertex quantum. apparently your momentum fabric is more breathable than mine so I'm abit worried about feeling clammy. never used it on hot nights before.

dont usually use it with hexamid when going light since the length of the hexamid is 2.75m long so my head and foot dont touch the edges.

I actually just set up camp in the blue mountains now and realised i had my iphone with me and surprised theres reception. got everything with me on that list above + PLB + iphone + GPS. conditions at the moment are pretty calm with no wind and the temp is about 20.5C.

[Nuts]

the wonders of modern communications

yer, ron(?) reckons the momentum fabric is the go, ill probably work with it as its nearly half kg lighter than the OR bivy though im not convinced on the fabrics. The OR (gore resp +ve) would get warm over summer but just never felt sticky /clamy. If MLD think (as he said) that the event is not as good as momentum why make the footbox out of it...(edit, perhaps just for the extra 'waterproofness'? It does seem to be working better heat wise in the footbox section...) I noticed event bivys on Sierra TP on sale, would be tempting to give them a go but they are back up around the OR weight.... Really like the mld superlight design with full side zip, i would call it more a s/bag cover or emergency bivy. Got the 'half moon' window but id choose the full mesh style if buying again...

[Maelgwn]

8) the wonders of modern communications

yer, ron(?) reckons the momentum fabric is the go, ill probably work with it as its nearly half kg lighter than the OR bivy though im not convinced on the fabrics. The OR (gore resp +ve) would get warm over summer but just never felt sticky /clamy. If MLD think (as he said) that the event is not as good as momentum why make the footbox out of it... I noticed event bivys on Sierra TP on sale, would be tempting to give them a go but they are back up around the OR weight.... Really like the mld superlight design with full side zip, i would call it more a s/bag cover or emergency bivy. Got the 'half moon' window but id choose the full mesh style if buying again...

Yeah the mld superlight is often used as a supplement to a tarp or floorless shelter. It is strange that you find it bit as breathable as a full gore-tex bivvy. The momentum fabric is not strictly waterproof, only water resistant, so it should be more breathable than gore-Tex. From memory, mld bivvys often used a non breathable floor so this "could" lead too it actually being less breathable. Is the OR significantly larger or held away from you sleeping bag better?

[Nuts]

mld is size large and i'd imagine a bit bigger than the OR Aurora bivy. Its just something ive not noticed in a few summers of using the OR bivy, even zip open, its clammy from waist to feet (then the event must be doing something as it seems ok again at the feet). The floor is just Nylon, perhaps this does heat the bivy up more... Either way, i do like it, it is a bit warm with a +4 sleeping bag but i think it is also likely bumping the rating of the bag up also (maybe i need an even lighter sleeping bag with it) Imagine in winter it will be fine (with warmer bag of course)

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/sh ... ucts_id=30

[andrewbish]

Ive got the bozeman mountain works Vapr bivy in size large which uses pertex quantum. apparently your momentum fabric is more breathable than mine so I'm abit worried about feeling clammy. never used it on hot nights before.

dont usually use it with hexamid when going light since the length of the hexamid is 2.75m long so my head and foot dont touch the edges.

Hi NP

Just wondering in what circumstances you would choose to use the bivy?

[cams]

How tall are you? I'm assuming you're using the small MLD quilt for it to be that light. Or are you only using it to cover up your bottom half and use jackets etc for the top?

Can't wait to get your thoughts on the pack.

[ninjapuppet]

just back from my weekend trip to test some new gear:

Macpac Nemesis pants: got these for an upcomming mountaineering trip after my macpac rockover pants disintegrated the first time i sat on some rocks. they are thick and warm, but wick moisture very well. more comfy than the rockover pants and highly recommended. might be slightly too warm on 30C + days.

Inov-8 Rocklite 315:
http://www.inov-8.com/Products-Detail.asp?PG=pg1&P=5050973101&L=26
Ive always used boots previously and these are the 2nd pair of shoes ive got for bushwalking. My first pair the flyrock 310 were a size too small and this is the risk you take when buying stuff online. Inov-8 cant be bought in Australian shops but 315s turned out to be really comfy and had no problems breaking in.

cuben groundsheet:
http://www.zpacks.com/shelter/cuben_groundsheet.shtml
i liked these better than the polycryo sheets i used previously because they're tougher. only difference is that they cost $100 compared to $5 polycryo. they weigh abit more per square meter but actually less than what is listed on the zpacks website. I never would have thought i'd pay this crazy amount for a groundsheet but i guess it was a spur of the moment thing at 5am. the edges can be connected to the corners of the hexamid to raise up the edges more.

windrider pack.
http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/pr ... -pack.html
My most anticipated item turned out to be a dud for me. From reading reviews, my impressions of this pack were really good and there is yet to be a bad review about this pack all over the net. This is probally the first time this pack is being slammed. ok, here it goes: firstly, the velcro stitching at the top of the pack looked like the sewer was drunk when sewing the thing together. it wasnt a straight line and kinda curvy in a non-intentional type of way. surely enough the first time i put shut the pack and opeend it again, the velcro stitching came apart. (ok, no big deal). The real problem came when loaded up. each time my left foot and right arm swung forward with a step, it felt as though the pack tried to drag my shoulders back. (same with the R foot/L arm). Ive got many packs and this is the only pack that reduces my cadence like this. feels as though i waste energy trying fight the pack's resistance. The hole for bladder tube is slightly too small and i have to kind of shove it thru and ripped the corner abit ever after taking the mouthpeice out. I couldnt test its waterproof claims yet, but my search for an ideal 35-40L pack continues....

MLD 45 quilt:
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=133
Once again, MLD doesnt dissapoint. Its an awesome pice of equipment! it is the regular sized version and came in slightly under its claimed 396g, measured at 389g. Claimed to be suitable for people under 1.75m. I'm 1.70 and it just fit perfectly so if you're any taller i would recommend to go the next size up. Its supposed to be suitable down to 7 C but it got nowhere near that cold on the weekend. If I Had gone with the new momentum 50 fabric, It could have shed off another 100 grams! I choose this because it was relatively cheap compared to the other major players. the only lighter quilt i could find was enlightened equipment's epiphany but i wasnt too keen on cuben fibre for a summer weight

bivy wasnt used with the hexamid, but i generally use it when bug protection or condensation protection is required with single skin shelters.


Photon light:
http://www.photonlight.com/products/Photon-Freedom-Micro-LED-Keychain-Flashlight.html
I should have known beforehand that i wasnt comfortable using a petzl e-lite, let alone this little thing. found that i was using the iphone for light more often than this thing. maybe i'll give it a few more tries before I ditch this idea. I'm no flashaholic, but i like it to be bright when i need stuff done.

Dermasafe knife:
http://www.derma-safe.com/folding-utility-knife.html
didnt even use this. Gone are the days when i used to carry my Ka-Bar army combat knife and now I sometimes question if i ever will need a knife. I did catch 2 rainbows but released them. If i know i need a knife beforehand, then the $10 folding fillet knife from rays outdoors or the mora 2000 are my current favourite blades. That new bear grylls Gerber knife looks tempting tho...

Caldera for 850 MLD pot.
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=113
I previously used a caldera Fosters keg and thought that was the lightest system to heat water on the planet, but then realised this new setup is actually lighter because the caddy isnt required. I can also actually cook if really needed, and have the option of going wood fire without buiding a camp fire where its prohibited. I dont drink tea or coffee so drinking water out of the bladder suits me fine. the 60ml of metho i used was enough to boil 800ml x 2 nights and still have some left over.


It still appears that only a very small % of bushwalkers come across this site because I met a number of people over the weekend and in the past and they've never heard of this site. This site is great for sharing new ideas.

[Nuts]

I like your reviews.

Interesting about the pack np. Ive been looking through u/l reviews and this does get good ones.
Ive tried the golite packs and decided they (while not even that 'ultra' light) just sacrificed too much in the harness and back support (and were too hot). Many in the category also mostly save outside weight by using a lot of flimsy mesh. These seem common features among many U/L packs (lots of exceptions obviously eg.mld offer full dyneema, OMM have a 'harness' etc).

Over the last two summers ive been using a Lowe Alpine pack, its 'heavy' (and big,the one ive been using) but its 'adaptive' harness and front pull adjustment is the best ive found. Ive noticed LA have now started a lightweight range (dyneema), using a similar harness:

http://www.lowealpine-usa.com/index.php ... =Hyperlite

some are not yet available, most aren't 'ultra'-light but perhaps a good compromise? (especially for someone trying to go U/L with any back issues..)

The larger models get a mention on BPL:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... epton.html

And BP geartest:

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews ... %20Easter/

(sorry, probably deserves another topic, maybe dyneema (and mass production) is 'last year', i get the the feeling cuben fibre is more fashionable... anyhow, was looking for an excuse to post these links )


The smaller Yocton is 35L, i guess it's a bit heavier than the WW pack:

http://www.webtogs.co.uk/Lowe_Alpine_Yo ... 02826.html

[jouni]

Hi Nice set up you have there.
I have been looking at MLD spirit Quilts for my summer camping, but I have never used quilts before. I also use neoair regular for 3 season camping.
What are your thoughts of quilts and particularly MLD ones.
I am also keen to hear of your experience with tenkara rods? I would like to combine bit of fishing with bushwalking.
Cheers
Jouni

[curlywood]

Caribiner towel............................25
snow peg *&%$#! digger, deodorant, detergent, , soap,

Why do you need a towel?
A stick works well as a poop digger.
And why would you need, deoderant (you're in the bush), detergent (use dirt or sand), or soap (use dirt or sand also)?. I've been fishing for years and have never had a problem getting rid of the smell by scrubbing my hands with dirt or sand and water.

[Bluegum Mic]

I must say I use a lite weight towel but I use it by day (it's my little piece of luxury and is often only the size of a face cloth or slightly larger). I hang it through the chest straps of my pack and if I get hot I put a little water on it to freshen and cool my face. It's nice!

[ninjapuppet]

Ive only used the MLD quilt in non-testing conditions so cant really comment on it with great experience other than to say that its abit bulkier than i thought - but lighter than I expected. went out with it last weekend and it worked well enough for the warm night.
heres some reviews and pictures of it: http://networkedblogs.com/dEEPG

heres a bunch of photos to give you a better idea: http://www.randonner-leger.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=13979
used it last night outside, and didnt even feel that i needed it (its 40 degrees yesterday and 42C today). The good thing, that being being a summer quilt is that i didnt feel the sticky sensation with the momentum fabric against the skin. I did consider the Bozeman Mountain Works 60 quilt, but they werent in stock on the BPL website, and BMW guys didnt answer my email about making me one............ They lost my business.

The cr@p digger comes with my kit because it also doubles as a standard tent peg to hold my tent down. Yes sticks can work as a digger and also hold your tent down when used as pegs, but they're generally not as strong as a tent pegs and they take longer to dig a hole.

Just realised i havn't really used the deoderant/detergent/soap for my past few walks when camping near a good water supply but i'd like to have it for my luxury kit. I have gotten my base kit down to 1.7kg before, but its simply less comfortable. You can wipe down excess tent condensation with a little towel if required.

i cant really tell much difference between 1.7kg and 3kg on my back.

[under10kg]

Hi NP

Had a look at the Andrew Skurka site - amazing stuff. I am pressed to find 3 days to get away, let alone 3 months or more! Jealous.

I have a 25yo 3/4 Thermarest. No back issues..yet. Do you see any potential issues of using a quilt like yours with it?

I use a full length neo with a top bag.
I do notice you get cold in tasi on a cold night.
I plan to take some extra thin insulation for the top of the neo or to purchase one of the new blow ups that have this installed.