My new Western Mountaineering multi use sleep system.

[Tony]

My new multi use sleep system arrived yesterday, it consists of a Western Mountaineering Summerlite sleeping bag, a Western Mountaineering Down Hooded Flash Jacket and a pair of Western mountaineering Flash Down Pants. The bag and clothes appear to manufactured to a high quality.

The idea of the down jacket and pants is to use the down clothing around camp and then on cold nights be able to wear the clothing inside the sleeping bag to increase the rating of the sleeping bag, for the extremes of winter I am considering adding to the system my BPL 180 Cocoon quilt which weighs an additional 572g.

Western Mountaineering Sleeping bag

The Sleeping bag in storage bag weighs in at 600.9g, without the storage bag 574.4g, the manufacturers average weight for the 180cm Summerlite is stated at 525g. this sleeping bag is rated at 0ºC and is filled with 275g of 850+ rated loft down, the bag is made in the US.

Western Mountaineering Down Jacket

The Down Hooded Flash Jacket weighs in at 310.2g, there was no storage bag and the manufacturers average weight is stated at 311.8g, the jacket is filled with 85g of 850+ rated loft down, the jacket is made in Canada.

Western Mountaineering Down Pants

The Flash Down pants weigh in at 214.5g, the also was no storage bag, the manufacturers average weight is stated at 180g, the pants are filled 57g of 850 +loft down and the pants are made in Canada.

Total weight 1125.6 g

The manufacturers average stated weights add up to 1016.8g which is 108.8g lighter than actually measured, as a lightweight gear freak I am a bit disappointed by the amount (10%) of the difference.

I am planning to use the sleeping bag and down clothing on a trip up Hannels Spur to the Main Range in Australian Alps at the end of November.

Tony

[Franco]

Nice stuff Tony.
I just used the Flash jacket with my HighLite a few nights ago when the temp dropped at around 4 AM. Worked very well.
I purchased the Highlite before the Summerlite came about. The Summerlite would have been more versatile ..
I have been drooling over the pants, not available when I got the jacket.

Are the pants a close match to the jacket ? (feel/loft)

Be prepared to loose several feathers (plumes) every time you use that jacket . I catch some of them (pull them back inside) but still miss others.
I suppose the pants will be the same.
I store the jacket inside a largish light sil bag (larger than your SB sack) to protect the rather thin fabric in transit.
The pack compresses that down to whatever space is available.
Franco
(a pic of the jacket and pants together would be nice...)

[Rod]

Hi Tony
Sounds like a great system.I'm jealous!A friend is about to go to the US and has offered to pick up any gear I wanted -obviously with the strength of the Aussie dollar it is a great time to buy!Very tempting...
I have considered the same top and bottom combo (or the montbell variation as per BPL tests) along with my one planet cocoon 500.The bag is obviously not as light but not too bad....
I will be interested in hearing how you get on.
We are heading over the do the Gillespie pass in NZ late Nov and was looking at using the gear there-will be something like the conditions of your intended trip ,and about the same time.
As a side issue a tenkara rod may come back with my "courier"-how are you going with yours, and do you think it would be useful in NZ at all ?
All the best
Rod

[Tony]

Hi Franco,

Nice stuff Tony.
I just used the Flash jacket with my HighLite a few nights ago when the temp dropped at around 4 AM. Worked very well.
I purchased the Highlite before the Summerlite came about. The Summerlite would have been more versatile ..
I have been drooling over the pants, not available when I got the jacket.

Are the pants a close match to the jacket ? (feel/loft)

Be prepared to loose several feathers (plumes) every time you use that jacket . I catch some of them (pull them back inside) but still miss others.
I suppose the pants will be the same.
I store the jacket inside a largish light sil bag (larger than your SB sack) to protect the rather thin fabric in transit.
The pack compresses that down to whatever space is available.
Franco
(a pic of the jacket and pants together would be nice...)

A choice of bag was a tough choice, I decided to go for the summerlite for the weight and reviews that I had read. Thanks for the tip on the feathers. I am 182 cm tall and 75kg I got the L size and the jacket and pants seem to fit OK I will see how they go in the field. I have attached a photo of the front and rear of the pants and jacket, the pants have a different material on the bottom area.

I meant to say in my previous post that I dealt through Back Country Gear and found them tops to deal with, I had an inquiry about sizing and they got back to my within 30 minutes, after processing the payment the gear was dispatched promptly.

Please note Back Country gear will not send Western mountaineering gear direct to Australia but will allow purchase from Australia if sent to a US address.

Tony


Back

Front

[Franco]

Thanks Tony , you are a star.
I had forgotten about the nylon bottom. Nice touch.
I would love to have the Summerlite but can't justify right now to sell the Highlite and by that one.
BTW , I bought my jacket when the AU$ was 63c US (ouch!)
Franco

[photohiker]

That looks to be a good setup Tony.

I've got the WM Ultralite bag. It comes in under your total weight (nyaaa, nyaa) but I have to say that I have often found it too warm so you should be happy in the lighter bag with options to go warmer if you need to.

I've also dumped my silk liner and gone with some fine silk thermals from Terramar. So much better I couldn't go back. When sleeping in the unzipped bag, they reduce that hot/cold effect you get and are very comfortable. No wonder the girls have been keeping silk to themselves, but the secret is out now

[Tony]

Hi photohiker,

That looks to be a good setup Tony.

I've got the WM Ultralite bag. It comes in under your total weight (nyaaa, nyaa) but I have to say that I have often found it too warm so you should be happy in the lighter bag with options to go warmer if you need to.

I've also dumped my silk liner and gone with some fine silk thermals from Terramar. So much better I couldn't go back. When sleeping in the unzipped bag, they reduce that hot/cold effect you get and are very comfortable. No wonder the girls have been keeping silk to themselves, but the secret is out now

The Summerlite will go well with my other five sleeping bags 2kg, 5 tents, 6 packs (I think), I also have stopped using a silk linner, I just wear thermals, now I can add some down clothing.

I will let you know how the new gear goes after my next trip.

Tony

[ninjapuppet]

Tony, is this the quilt you use?
http://www.bozemanmountainworks.com/?do=showproduct&id=42

Unless its an old model, I cant seem to find any quilts matching your description on the BPL website. The only one i see is the 240 gram quilt.

Does the weight of this quilt allow enough room for the summerlite to loft adequately?

[Tony]

Hi ninjapuppet,

Tony, is this the quilt you use?
http://www.bozemanmountainworks.com/?do=showproduct&id=42

Unless its an old model, I cant seem to find any quilts matching your description on the BPL website. The only one i see is the 240 gram quilt.

Does the weight of this quilt allow enough room for the summerlite to loft adequately?

Yes, the quilt in the link is the one I have, I do not think it is made anymore, the 240 is its replacement, I did seriously consider the 240 over the summerlite, The reason I decided on the Summerlite over the 240 is because of bulk, the type of synthetic insulation that is used can suffer long term from being compressed to much to often, so I do not compress my 180 as much as I would like too and it takes up a bit more room than the summerlite.

I have not used the 180 with the Summerlite but I have used the 180 inside my old (pre macpac owned) Fairydown Superlite bag in the Alps. I slipped into the summerlite for the first time yesterday and it is a bit tighter fit than my Fairdown bag, While I would prefer to have the 180 inside the summerlite I have yet to try out if I can fit the 180 into the summerlite. I was considering the 6'6" summerlite but in the end decided on the lighter 6' bag, as I could always get the 240 and the 6'6" summerlite later.

Tony

[north-north-west]

The Flash Down pants...

I'm sorry, I know I should try to take this more seriously, but that really is an unfortunate choice of name. *snigger*

[Liamy77]

The Flash Down pants...

I'm sorry, I know I should try to take this more seriously, but that really is an unfortunate choice of name. *snigger*

c'mon... thay have been called that for "many moons" now

[ninjapuppet]

I took a similar setup to tony's to the cascade saddle in NZ and my friends and my weather meter both registered a minimum of -7C overnight inside my shangrila-5 tent.

We had 4 people sleeping inside and I remember it was significantly much colder outside the tent than inside when i went out at 5am. I would say that the outside temp would have easily been even colder than -10C and I should have left one of the weather meters outside for comparison.

clothing setup was:
- injinji socks
- mapac hiking pants
- icebreaker tshirt
- mapac merino top
- Eddie Bauer downlight jacket (not as good as WM jackets)
- WM summerlite
- on a neoair mat.
- 1L of boiled water in a nalgene.

we really didnt expect the temp to drop so low nor did we expect a dump of snow in late Nov, so I left the WM flash jacket and WM pants home.
My friend's all had their -15C bags so they had no problem.
I was quite cold at around 5am from the ground, but that is a limitation of the mat rather than the sleep system.
i got my deflated packraft and placed it under the neoair then managed to sleep soundly till morning. It was cold, but not cold enough to wake up.
I can now confidently state that a WM summerlite + WM jackets/pants can be safely taken down to -10C with a suitable mat.

Apparently we were the first party to go over the cascade saddle this season so we had the whole mountain to ourselves.

[nickL]

Hi NP

great pics - what about a trip report in the international section?

looks like a great adventure

nick

[Liamy77]

I am 1.82 cm tall and 75kg

now i've heard of short and rotund but......

[Tony]

Hi Liamy77,

I am 1.82 cm tall and 75kg

now i've heard of short and rotund but......

I have been wondering why my Doc has told me to loose some weight.

thanks for pointing out the typo .

Hi ninjapuppet,

Thanks for the review of the Summerlite sleeping bag, it is nice to know that it can be used in -10C temps, sounds like a great trip you had.

I used my Summerlite for the first time last weekend on a walk around Mount Kosciuszko, it was not that cold (5-10C) but it was very wet and windy, I took the Down Hooded Flash Jacket but did not use it. I found the sleeping bag very confortable and it fitted my 182cm/75kg frame very well, it was the first time I used my new Neoair mat too and I liked it too.

My new Lightwave Ultrahike 60 backpack performed beyond expectations, I am writing up a review on it and will post soon.

Tony

[Franco]

Liam
"c'mon... thay have been called that for "many moons" now "
I wish that I had thought of that

ninjapuppet
Thanks for the report. Still bothers me that I have the Highlite and not the Summerlite but nice to know that (as I suspected ) you can extend temps like that.

Tony
Do the trousers compress down to a similar size as the jacket when stored ?
I previously commented on that reinforced seat area; I had another look at the WM site and now I know why I had not noticed that before.
That is because it does not show on the WM pics ...
BTW always hard to compare because there are so many variables but I have felt colder at + 5 in humid weather that at or just below 0 in dry weather.

Franco

[climberman]

ninja - how are the injinji socks AND how was the packrafting ? Would love a report.

Innerestred in the socks as I get a bit of toe rub when doing long days. I tape but would rather not.

[Liamy77]

so now we know who to try n hit up for 2nd hand gear!
sounds like you had a great adventure!
not a bit envious though!

[Tony]

Hi Franco,

Tony
Do the trousers compress down to a similar size as the jacket when stored ?
I previously commented on that reinforced seat area; I had another look at the WM site and now I know why I had not noticed that before.
That is because it does not show on the WM pics ...
BTW always hard to compare because there are so many variables but I have felt colder at + 5 in humid weather that at or just below 0 in dry weather.

Franco

The pants pack slightly smaller than the jacket but not much.

Tony

[Franco]

Thank you very much.

Franco

[Franco]

I finally managed to test the Summerlite/Flash Jacket and pants "sleep system" down to about minus 4- 5c.
(I got a reading of -3.8 (inside the tent) at about 7am one morning and -2.7c the other morning .
With the above I also had on my merino wool (200) T top and bottom leggings as well as on and off , my merino/possum wool hat (very warm).
Also had a pair of Coolmax socks and one of a mix wool type socks.
my mat was an Exped DM 7, no doubt that helped balancing the system.
Note that all of the above clothing are the same that I use at camp before or after I walk.
If I were able to sleep still, that is not turning as often as I do, I could go a few degrees lower and still be warm.
Franco
(I have a new toy, a Kestrel 2500 weather thingo..,)

[Tony]

I finally managed to test the Summerlite/Flash Jacket and pants "sleep system" down to about minus 4- 5c.
(I got a reading of -3.8 (inside the tent) at about 7am one morning and -2.7c the other morning .
With the above I also had on my merino wool (200) T top and bottom leggings as well as on and off , my merino/possum wool hat (very warm).
Also had a pair of Coolmax socks and one of a mix wool type socks.
my mat was an Exped DM 7, no doubt that helped balancing the system.
Note that all of the above clothing are the same that I use at camp before or after I walk.
If I were able to sleep still, that is not turning as often as I do, I could go a few degrees lower and still be warm.
Franco

Hi Franco,

Thanks for the report, I used my Summelite SB a few weeks ago on a trip to the Budawangs, on the second night we had a heavy frost, I did not have a thermometer so I will only say that the temp was less than zero, on that night I was comfortable up until just before dawn, when I grabbed my Mont down jacket and slipped it over me inside the bag, I was very warm after that.

Edit: I was sleeping on a STD neoair in a cave.

IMG_4512.jpg (125.42 KiB) Viewed 14483 times

I am looking forward to using my complete WM sleep system in the snow in a few weeks time.

Tony

[ninjapuppet]

Last week I took the summerlite camping with only a layer of merino thermals on to test. The tent was a hubba HP double layer.
It got to +3C overnight and I was actually cold enough to wake up if I lay supine on my back. If i got into the foetal position, it was warm enough to sleep but then my hips started hurting from rocky ground due to the thin multimat adventurer pad being too thin. I should have taken a thicker & more comfy sleeping pad so I would have been ok on a neoair, but would have had to curl up into the foetal position to stay asleep.

by 4am, it got too uncomfortable so I just put on extra clothes and slept soundly till 8am.

Makes me wonder about the setup of the summerlite's rating. I thought the rating was meant to be conservative for males with only a layer of thermals on, but for me, I have discovered it's -2C rating will involve me wearing my thermals + long pants + fleece top. This contrasts with my experience last year taking it down to -7C with extra clothing and warm headwear on.

[Dale]

On Aus Alps Trail I was good in the Summerlite / Big Agnes pad to low minuses with micro fleece pants, thermal top and 300 weight merino top. Woke each morning with frost on the inside of the Sublite and was still warm. Compare that to a recent walk camping next to the Colo River in a Squall 2 and WM Apache, same mat and just boxers and a polypro top. Started feeling the cold a bit early in the morning on my legs. How does that work for a -10 bag ? It can't have been less than 3/4 degrees ? Now the Squall is a very well ventilated tent and I was a few meters from the river. Go figure ?

I have now concluded that praying to the sleeping gods before bedtime in the bush is the best solution.

[Franco]

Just to add to my comments...
Packing for the trip I started with the Summerlite, then temporarily packed the Ultralite (rated -7) but then opted again for the Summerlite because I wanted to test the system.
I was going to take the puffy jacket and pants for camp anyway so adding up the down in the Ultralite and the one in the Summerlite/jacket and pants the latter has about 1 oz less, making me think that it could handle the expected minimum temp. I was actually asleep when the minimum temp hits but we probably went down to -5.
From memory the "comfort" temp given by WM (for men at 32f/0c with the Summerlite) assumes that you are wearing a thermal top and bottom.
BTW, because of having those layers on, I did not take , as I usually do, my silk sheet. So that saved a bit of one use weight.
I also intended to take my new WM Flight booties but because there was a chance of rain I did not bother. The camp/spare socks did the job.
I put some pics of the trip here :
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=49859
Franco

[Dale]

Hi Franco

Looked like a lot of fun !

Are they TT Moments in photo ? I couldn't make out the middle tent.

Did you use the Downmat for this trip ?

Cheers

Dale.

[Franco]

Hi Dale
Yes , you see two Moments (is that about 5 minutes?) and one WE Second Arrow.
Matt used his WE fly only with an eVent bivvy (Integral Design)
I did use my new (I gave up on the old one...) Exped DM7 and that is very much part of the reason I was warm. No cold spots from under the Summerlite.
Discussed at BPL is the possibility to shift more down to the top of the bag but that does not work for me because I turn and take the bag with me as I do so the bottom is occasionally on top.
Every time I turned I also pumped out some warm air but I never managed to learn not to toss and turn.
BTW, independently, we all had the same mat and the same BD poles.
Like Tony I also use the Neo Air and did so on the snow last year with a home made concertina type solid foam mat under.
The two mat system is still lighter and maybe safer but the Exped is warmer and more comfortable . I will still use the Neo in warmer weather.
Franco

[Empacitator]

Last week I took the summerlite camping with only a layer of merino thermals on to test. The tent was a hubba HP double layer.
It got to +3C overnight and I was actually cold enough to wake up if I lay supine on my back. If i got into the foetal position, it was warm enough to sleep but then my hips started hurting from rocky ground due to the thin multimat adventurer pad being too thin. I should have taken a thicker & more comfy sleeping pad so I would have been ok on a neoair, but would have had to curl up into the foetal position to stay asleep.

by 4am, it got too uncomfortable so I just put on extra clothes and slept soundly till 8am.

Makes me wonder about the setup of the summerlite's rating. I thought the rating was meant to be conservative for males with only a layer of thermals on, but for me, I have discovered it's -2C rating will involve me wearing my thermals + long pants + fleece top. This contrasts with my experience last year taking it down to -7C with extra clothing and warm headwear on.

There are many factors in this beyond the rating of the bag- the type of ground insulation you are using (not familiar with your pad), were you well fed and warm when you went to bed, were you well hydrated etc, were you physically exhausted from the day's activities?

All of these things will have an effect on your sleep which is probably why there can be such variations with other people with the same equipment. Makes it hard to test sometimes I've been warm down to 1C and with exactly the same equipment I've been chilly at only 6C... These days I have a warm but lightweight pad, and a sleeping system which incorporates a quilt, down jacket and down pants for a weight of ~900 grams which will also keep me warm and comfortable around camp