on the hunt for a new jacket!

[belle]

so im getting a new jacket soon and am just looking for suggestions or recomendations. Im looking for something that is suitable for day walks and also overnighters, pref waterproof. Prehaps something that can be worn for everyday use also. Thanks in advance =)

[ILUVSWTAS]

How much are you willing to spend?

[belle]

upto $300-$400, im not realy sure of jacket prices as my current is a hand me down, can you get a good jacket for that amount?

[Ent]

Hunt around on special and aim for a Goret-tex type jacket such as the Stratus from MD as that should be in the price range. If after a more compact jacket then the Pac-lite versions are ok but not really suitable for heavy scrub but still tough enough for the occasional accident. Best if you find something you like post on that as I am sure someone out there will have one and makes some good comments.

Cheers Brett

[belle]

thanks Brett, a friend informed me of a brand called 'Hydronaut'. They said that it was like goretex but a bit cheaper. Does anyone have any experience or comments on this brand or is it not even worth looking into? Thanks, belle

[pazzar]

I have a Mont Hydronaute jacket, and it is fantastic, but if you are after something that is waterproof, and can be worn as an everyday jacket, I would look at an MD's Alto. They are $400, but are a stylish Goretex jacket. The other option would be a strong windproof soft shell. MD's, Mont and Macpac all have good soft shells for around the $3-400 mark. Hope this helps.

Jared

[belle]

so today i went into snowgum, mountain designs, mountain creek outdoor, passion8 and mac pac and only found 1 that i liked which was in snow gum, which i think was because the guy was lovely and very helpful. Its called the snowgum Majella NeroTEC, the other one i found is online and its called the north face womens ventura. I think the reason i didn't find anymore i liked was because the staff weren't very helpful. I haven't purchased any yet as i dont want to rush into buying something thats not right. Does anyone have jackets from snowgum? What are they like? Thanks =)

[pazzar]

NeroTEC is another Goretex like membrane, like Hydronaute. I haven't personally used it, but I have heard that it is fairly good. Quite a bit cheaper too. I think you just need to keep shopping around until you find something that you are comfortable in. There are plenty of options out there.

[Nuts]

Personally id avoid the various proprietary fabrics (with perhaps the exception of hydronaught for a tough pair of waterproof pants), tried several and the marketing hype is never reality. Stick with either Goretex or Event.
Then again, you mention 'preferably' waterproof...
(Oh btw, Avoid 'lovely' salespeople, they will be cosy with their feet up while your shivering on a mountaintop, soaked through in your fashionable jacket)
Hope this helps?
Personally wasnt too impressed with Snowgum when they were here, lots of their clothing and shells looked of kathmandu quality.

[Ent]

Hi

I agree with Nuts on the brand name breathable fabrics as a lot do not measure up, with Tritec being no better than a plastic garbage bag in my opinion. eVent has a lot of hype but is still rather new compared to Gore-tex so there are some mixed reports on it re the jackets wetting out. Still have not heard how one person faired with their warranty claim, did not look promising based on their last post. Nuts has the Montane eVent version and that is a neatly styled jacket compared to the more tradditional styles I use. Mammut makes good looking jackets out of Gore-tex but they are not cheap unless they are on throw out special.

As for overlight jackets just be careful as there is not much sympathy out there if you slip and the jacket destructs

Cheers Brett

[juney]

TNF Ventura is a PU laminate, not a membraned jacket. Basically that means you get a lightweight jacket that has pretty good (but not excellent) breathability and a lower price than a high end membraned jacket but you forfeit some durability. Not a bad option as a first jacket though if you want to keep the price and weight down. I reckon TNF gear tends to be a bit pricey for what you get, but if you like the styling and will use it for city use rather than just the bush then it's probably worth the extra.
I use a Mountain Hardwear PU laminate jacket as my day walk rain jacket, but I wouldn't use it on multi day walks.(due to lack of durability and beathability) Mind you, I have seen a number of people using them on long walks in Nepal and Tassie in facebook photos. That goes for gore tex paclite jackets too - ie, I only use them on city and day walks.
Goretex performance shell will generally get you a more durable and breathable jacket, and better again in both breathability and durability is goretex pro shell. Keep in mind this is only a generalisation, as it depends on the face fabric and liner used in conjunction with the membrane and this varies. Best to ask a shop assistant - in theory they should know about what they stock.
I have heard good things about the breathability of event, but havn't used any myself. The breathability of my Arcteryx that uses goretex pro shell is unbelievably good, but unless you find one on a crazy clearance, it wont be in the $300-$400 price range.
Snowgum gear doesn't have a very good reputation amongst people I walk with in QLD, but I believe the Hobart store has better range of products
Hope this helps. Fire away with any more questions.
Cheers,
Juney

[belle]

ok (note to self: avoid lovely sales people) lol =) iv written down suggestions and things to avoid etc so i know what to look for when i head back in. There were also alot of down jackets around, how would a lightweight down jacket compare to these suggestions? Sorry about all of the questions!

[juney]

hmm,
not sure what you're asking.
A down jacket is a warmth layer, while the jackets previously discussed are wind/waterproof outer shells. If it's cold and rainy you wear both. When cold, just the down and when rainy but not cold, just the shell.
So, if it's just for city use in Hobart then the down jacket would be my choice. But if you're heading somewhere that you cannot take cover if it rains AND it's gonna be cold, then you'll need the shell AND either down or fleece as well.
The basics of down jackets:
1. The loft rating of the down. The higher the no. the better. ie 450 poor, 650 very good, 850 excellent.
2. The higher the % of down to feather the better (lighter and warmer)
3. Jackets vary in the amount of fill. The more fill the warmer the jacket.
So, 300g of 650 lofting down will obviously be warmer than 200g of 650 lofting down, but if you are comparing 300g of 450 lofting down to 200g of 850 lofting down, then the jacket with 200g of 850 fill will be warmer.
There is more to it than that, but that's a start.
Last months "Outer Edge" magazine reviewed and explained down jackets. Maybe you could track it down at the library. It was men's jackets, but all learning is good.
Cheers,
Juney

[belle]

oh i see. Im quite new to this so didn't know that you needed both! Silly me. Ok thanks for explaining it too me =) sorry for the confusion. Will track down the magazine and check it out, thanks again

[belle]

the down jackets that i have in mind are the Kathmandu goose down hooded jacket v2. It is 700 loft. I like it because it has a hood and feels realy comfortable. Its only $264.99 save $264 as they have a big sale atm. So i figure good bargain? I know kathmandu doesn't realy have a great reputation for quality but the others i tried were either to restrictive (tried upto size 10, the reversable) or didn't have a drawstring hood, or didn't have my size, or realy super puff (mont. one) i know kathmandu doesn't have a good reputation for quality but its soo cheap and its only my first jacket. . .?

[pazzar]

Kathmandu isnt bad for the price you pay, same as MD's down jackets. The extra that you pay on Macpac, Mont, Mountain Hardwear is for the extra loft. They will keep you much warmer. That is not to say that a Kathmandu wont keep you warm, its just a mid range jacket. At that price I would grab it. How is the hunt for a waterproof jacket going?

[Nuts]

belle, your question is not so easy to answer. i'm not likely to give you much to help, there is a steep learning curve with outdoor gear.
That jacket would never be 'worth' its regular retail price. Kathmandu have an everyday (ie suckers) price and a 'sale' price which is approaching its true (domestic) value. Sounds like the fit/style is probably important on your list though just something to be aware of (technical point that may (or not) interest you at this stage):

The '700 loft' put simply refers to the quality of the down they have put in the jacket 700 fill is usually at the bottom end of the range from most known brands. It equates to less warmth for the 'puffiness', higher quality down will be as high as 850-900 'fill' ( Many people here also regard lightweight as a selling point (which is usually also found with the higher quality fill))

In Australia these are expensive, less so from overseas but you would need to either see one locally or take a chance ordering online. Eg you could probably pick up a '700 fill' hooded jacket for $150 delivered and '8/900 fill' for $250.

Good 'Oz' jackets are likely Mont, Macpac and so on while from OS Western Mountaineering, Marmot, Montane, Montbell all make good gear (that ive tried)

Gets confusing eh? and thats just the down.

(I see pazzar has touched on similar things while i was posting)

[blacksheep]

and you'll find the macpac jacket in that range with a hood and water resistant shell (the equinox) is box walled baffled throughout the torso also, whereas the others are mostly sewn through construction (baffle walls will be a lot warmer as there is no direct heat loss/the loft is not counteracted by an area of zero loft)...make sure you hold and apple up to an apple!

[belle]

ok thoroughly confused now!
Pazzar- thanks! Its on hold at the moment until i get a down jacket then ill go back to looking for a waterproof one.
Nuts - I thought that 700 loft was good? Iv been reading through archives and thats the impression i got. I plan to wear it to and from tafe and also on bushwalks. But i have the worry that if i get a say 8 or 900 fill that it will be too hot for getting around ?
Blacksheep - thanks, is the hood detatchable?

Thanks guys!

[pazzar]

A 700 loft is a reasonably good rating, provided that the weight of the loft is high. I would think that the Kathmandu is around the 200g mark. I think for what you want the jacket for, you don't need an 8 or 900 loft jacket, unless you are willing to spend a lot more. For wearing around Tafe, 700 loft should be more than enough, as for bushwalking, well you aren't going to walk in the jacket, it is more for around campsites. The quality of jacket that you need will depend on the places you plan to go. For more extreme conditions, such as can occur in the Southwest, especially in winter, you might need a higher loft. In the end, as long as it's warm and comfortable, and you are happy with it, then you have made a good decision. Keep looking around, try on some different brands, and see what suits you best. You don't want to be spending hundreds of dollars on something unless you are happy with it. Good luck!

Jared

[blacksheep]

ok thoroughly confused now!
Pazzar- thanks! Its on hold at the moment until i get a down jacket then ill go back to looking for a waterproof one.
Nuts - I thought that 700 loft was good? Iv been reading through archives and thats the impression i got. I plan to wear it to and from tafe and also on bushwalks. But i have the worry that if i get a say 8 or 900 fill that it will be too hot for getting around ?
Blacksheep - thanks, is the hood detatchable?

Thanks guys!

yes, the hood is removable. quite frankly, I do not believe you need expensive down for a versatile down jacket- no need to buy super expensive 700+ loft for most people- the jacket that macpac sells mostly for the use you describe is the sundowner, which uses 600 loft down, or sundowner XP which adds an improved water resistance to the jacket and use 650 loft. we have made 800 loft down jackets, which are ultra light, but they are very specialised and high end customer that wants to count every gram and is willing to pay for it!! maybe over kill for what you need ?
ALSO....
the k'du jkt you mention does use 700 loft, but only 157gm!! if you do the math you'll calculate that it offers 5.3oz @ 700cu/in fill = 3710 cu/in of insulation potential in this jacket. Compare that to the macpac sundowner xp which uses 210gm of 650 loft you'll find it is 7.1 oz @ 650cu/in=4615 cu/in of insulation. ie: almost 25% more insulation value in the macpac. use this method to see how warm the jackets are perhaps as a guide? also, a water resistant shell add several degrees as warmed air doesn't get pumped out of the insulation as you move around (same applies for sleeping bags!)

I am sorry if this adds to your confusion, but I wanted to stress the mistake of purely being guided by loft power alone.

[Nuts]

yer, pazzar is on the mark, they may not be available from 'local' outlets (not sure, havent bothered to buy locally for some time...) but you can get 800+fill jackets with less fill (ie warm but not bulky)..
Here's a page of down jackets as an example from OS (though i also wouldnt buy from b'country and my last down jacket was Montane brand (purchased from the UK). Warning, there are some not so pretty ones available:

http://www.backcountry.com/store/group/ ... ckets.html

700 fill is 'not bad' but would be at the lower end of what you would expect from the better brands (some start at 5/600 fill) I guess that the only reason for not buying top shelf would be to save $ (my point about OS sources and getting more bang for yer $) Being able to try on this gear (particularly 'fashion items') may however be a good enough reason for not buying from O/S

This is a better source than backcountry (thanks whoever originally linked it ) :

http://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/ ... thing.html

I have a montane jacket from here, especially like the waist (as well as hip) drawcord....

None of these links may impress the other posters here but 'hey' ive stated their case also....

[Nuts]

PS whether or not you 'need' an expensive jacket is entirely up to you (and the bank account) but what advice is there besides a reason for quality?

[blacksheep]

high loft down is fine, just make sure you use total information (ie: muliply the fill qty by fill power to give the insualtion power!)

ie: here is our 800 loft jacket for you http://www.macpac.co.nz/shop/en_nz/gear ... goose.html
but like most similar garments, it has around 125gms of fill, so is more ultra light and compact than the ultra warm sundowner of equinox...but choice is good..just informed action is better .

[Ent]

Hi Belle

Nothing quite like information over load and someone trying to sell something, maybe in black For bushwalking a good waterproof and windproof jacket is a necessity while a down jacket is a nicety. Concentrate first on a sensible membrane type jacket and then when the money comes look at a down jacket.

As for Katmandu and other single brand stores pricing is a more to do with marketing designed to convey an impression of value and savings so take the advertised full price with a grain of salt. In down jackets Kathmandu recommended retail price for a 550 loft jacket is almost twice what a North Face 700 loft jacket is at full price at say Paddy Pallin. The North Face is a much better jacket. However, assuming you are a standard size then as Nuts has said more than once you are financially much better off to buy direct from USA. My long arms means very few jackets are long enough so I love my 700 loft water resistant Mont jacket as its cut suits me but it cost me twice what a similar quality jacket would have cost brought direct from the states. Now water resistant means the fabric is (Hydronaut) but not the stitching so more designed to survive a wet trip to and from the toilet than a days walking in the rain. I do have a water proof down jacket with all seams sealed made out of a breathable fabric but I would have to be at the poles or Everest to want to wear it while walking. Great for dodging down town on a Launceston winter day though.

The Pro-shell Gore-tex jacket is a great thing and does work, at least mine does, in adverse conditions but more in the $500 to $800 range. The Performance shell is as tough if not tougher and cheaper so is worth looking at as many jacket set in the $350 to $450 price range. Pac-lite is lighter and often cheaper but while more than acceptable for on track walking is not as tough if you are a scrub basher.

Can not suggest too much that if you find something you like post and nearly always you will have someone familiar with it. It is a step learning curve and one that cost me a huge amount of money, and the more honest of might admit to a similar experience, but hopefully not as extreme as mine.

Cheers Brett

[belle]

all of the information is a bit of an overload as im only quite new to bushwalking and aren't very farmiliar with brands etc. so im just going to name a few that i like and you guys can tell me if they are ok or not. sorry if this is annoying.

TNF Nupste
TNF Aconcagua
TNF Redpoint optimist
Mont Helium (maybe)
and the ones previously stated
Macpac equinox

Could someone please state the pro's and cons of each ( if you can be bothered!)

[juney]

TNF Acongagua
is the only one I've actually seen in person. It is a travesty!! Normally TNF gear is good quality, but this thing is the worst down jacket I have ever seen! I don't have the specs, but I know a fair bit about gear just by looking and feeling and this would be lucky to keep me warm in Brisbane winter. If a jacket is this thin, then it has to have excellent quality down in it to be effective (like TNF thunder jacket with 800 lofting down - thin, but excellent)
Right, just looked it up - it's 550 loft. I remember the fabric is super shiny and thick. It's a bit of a pretend down jacket and would be more at home in a "in da hood" skit. These were around last winter and I reckon TNF must have been having a no coffee week or somthing. It's a lemon.
I am moving to Tassie soon and think I'll get a Mountain Hardwear sub-zero parka. See if anywhere in Hobart stocks them and have a look. For $350 you get a super warm (not super light though), excellent quality, 650 lofting down jacket with a hood and quite a long body. They also do a "downtown" jacket, which is a bit more fashionable, but you don't get the hood or long body. I have(expensive) light weight down jackets for hiking, but I reckon this is a great one for round a bout cold weather living. Sorry to add another to your list, but it is pretty awesome.
Re. internet purchases, I have used backcounty a no. of times, adn regretted it with clothing, as it is so hard to get the right fit. Gear sure, but I won't get clothing again - had a no. of misfits...which actually I must get round to advertising for sale on this site.
Cheers,
Juney

[abowen]

Hi Belle,
For a not bad down jacket have a look at this sale of Outdoor Research down jackets from a NZ company: http://www.bivouac.co.nz/ I have just noticed that the sale ends this Sunday.
For a good waterproof bush bashing jacket I like the Earth Sea Sky gear - now available at Passion 8 in Hobart. Refer to: http://www.earthseasky.co.nz/ I have some of their gear and it has lasted several years. I generally like anything that has been made for and tested in similiar conditions to Tassie. Well worth a look. I should say that I have no commercial link with either of the above companies, but like to stick by reputable brands that I know will last and where the manufacturing quality is good.
Cheers
Andrew

[geoskid]

so im getting a new jacket soon and am just looking for suggestions or recomendations. Im looking for something that is suitable for day walks and also overnighters, pref waterproof. Prehaps something that can be worn for everyday use also. Thanks in advance =)

For bushwalking (day or overnighters) I would definitely suggest keeping your warmth layers and waterproof outer separate. There will be times when you will need to separate them - to avoid overheating.
For around town or at the ski lodge - a totally different kettle of fish, you can happily integrate the two layers in one fashionable garment.
If the new Jacket is primarily for bushwalking - I'd suggest getting a good waterproof shell first ( your warmth layer(s) can be cheapish microfibre).

[ninjapuppet]

Thanks Andrew!!!!

so much stuff on sale at 50% off!!!!