Cutting the Grams, inc 48g Stove [split]

[Tony]

the lightest commercially produced canister stove (48g) that I have seen which cost only $35. http://www.de-maritime.com/titanium-camping-stove

Admin: This topic has been split from another topic, with the above quote having been copied into this post for context.

Hi corvus,

Tony,
Thanks for that post and I agree the prices are really good ,do you think I should add another stove to my collection
corvus

That is my problem too, do I really need another stove, I must have over 10 comercial canister stoves as it is, though the thought of saving 12g from my kovea supalite is tempting.

Did look at buying even signed up however the old drawback from US suppliers, freight cost $19.95 US for a lightweight item just puts it out of contention at $54.90 US I will just need to troll eBay for a supplier from the country of origin to feed my addiction

You have a good point, lets do some figures, the Kovea Supalite at 60g costs A$90 normal retail, the 48g DE-Maritime stove would cost A$61 delivered, a saving of 12g and $29.

Tony

[corvus]

Hi corvus,

Tony,
Thanks for that post and I agree the prices are really good ,do you think I should add another stove to my collection
corvus

That is my problem too, do I really need another stove, I must have over 10 comercial canister stoves as it is, though the thought of saving 12g from my kovea supalite is tempting.

Did look at buying even signed up however the old drawback from US suppliers, freight cost $19.95 US for a lightweight item just puts it out of contention at $54.90 US I will just need to troll eBay for a supplier from the country of origin to feed my addiction

You have a good point, lets do some figures, the Kovea Supalite at 60g costs A$90 normal retail, the 48g DE-Maritime stove would cost A$61 delivered, a saving of 12g and $29.

Tony

Tony,
I just could not justify spending $60:00 odd dollars to save, in my instance the equivalent of 1 pkt of Cup A Soup, much as I like the look of the stove (may be loosing my addiction) and perhaps because I have just shed a few grammes (and spent my "allowance" ) by purchasing a Scarp1
corvus

[Tony]

Hi Corvus,

I just could not justify spending $60:00 odd dollars to save, in my instance the equivalent of 1 pkt of Cup A Soup, much as I like the look of the stove (may be loosing my addiction) and perhaps because I have just shed a few grammes (and spent my "allowance" ) by purchasing a Scarp1
corvus

I do understand, my gear budget has blown out from buying a new tent too (Zpacks hexamid) and a new UL flyfishing rod, but to me the saving of 12g is important.

I look forward to your review of the Scarp 1, it is a tent that I am looking to purchase myself.

Tony

[sef]

12g?

You'd put that on with sugar in your coffee.

[Tony]

Hi Sef,

12g?

You'd put that on with sugar in your coffee.

You have brought up a very good point here, reducing the weight of our heaviest piece of equipment, ourselves, is also important. Besides I do not have sugar in my coffee or tea.

Just imagine how much weight could be saved if we could reduce the weight of each and every item in our pack by an average of 12g.

Tony

[whiskeylover]

No offence but is that really worth it and for what price? Even if you had 50 items in your pack, which I hope you don't, you'd save a whole 600g. I might strive to save that off one item but 12g, pffft, really.... why bother, sweat it off instead.

[Son of a Beach]

Different strokes for different folks. 600g (or even 300g) is a big deal to some people. Doesn't concern me a whole lot, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate goal. Some people want to cut down so much that every gram counts for them. It's not that much of a priority for me, but if other people consider it to be important then good on them!

[Tony]

Hi Whiskerlover,

No offence but is that really worth it and for what price? Even if you had 50 items in your pack, which I hope you don't, you'd save a whole 600g. I might strive to save that off one item but 12g, pffft, really.... why bother, sweat it off instead.

You have brought up a some very good points why try and save 12g and at what cost, but the point I was trying to make is that if you can save weight from every piece of gear in your pack the weight savings start to add up.

As for cost, a $61, 48g canister stove is cheaper that the next lightest 60g canister stove at $90.

I would to knock off 600g from this gear list which I will be using at Easter



Tony

[tasadam]

Different strokes for different folks. 600g (or even 300g) is a big deal to some people. Doesn't concern me a whole lot, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate goal. Some people want to cut down so much that every gram counts for them. It's not that much of a priority for me, but if other people consider it to be important then good on them!

Precisely what my take on the whole UL thing is.
I'm all for saving weight, but the last big weight saving I made was halving my tent weight from 4.2kg's to 2.1kg's.
Saving 12 grams for $29, that ratio makes the sums of making my pack weigh nothing about $5000.
I could pay someone less than that to carry it for me for a couple of walks, but after time the sums stack up in the favour of gram cutting, what, about $2.40 a gram with the given stove example.
Good on you if you want to do it, and can afford to.

Some of this discussion might need splitting off to an UL discussion?

[ninjapuppet]

Ive got pretty much everything i need, but my gear is wayyy heavy (pack was over 32kg for a 8 dayer). I'm in the process of changing everything i got and going lightweight myself. based upon what i have now, i go by the principle of $1 per 1 gram saved as the limit i would spend.

eg, if i spend $30 grams to save 30 grams by going to a titanium cup, then so be it.
spending $270 for a new tarptent to save 900 grams from my current tent, seems like a better ratio so i went with that first.

In your case a 48g DE-Maritime stove would cost A$61 delivered. I have a pocket rocket at 86 grams
For me, that would be spending $61 to save 38 grams and would not be a good purchase unless the technological advances in that stove were beyond the pocket rocket.

[tasadam]

I bought a titanium cup, and it was heavier than my plastic one. But the plastic one was old and starting to leave funny tastes in things, can't be good for you.

[Tony]

Hi Adam,

Different strokes for different folks. 600g (or even 300g) is a big deal to some people. Doesn't concern me a whole lot, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate goal. Some people want to cut down so much that every gram counts for them. It's not that much of a priority for me, but if other people consider it to be important then good on them!

Precisely what my take on the whole UL thing is.
I'm all for saving weight, but the last big weight saving I made was halving my tent weight from 4.2kg's to 2.1kg's.
Saving 12 grams for $29, that ratio makes the sums of making my pack weigh nothing about $5000.
I could pay someone less than that to carry it for me for a couple of walks, but after time the sums stack up in the favour of gram cutting, what, about $2.40 a gram with the given stove example.
Good on you if you want to do it, and can afford to.

Some of this discussion might need splitting off to an UL discussion?

Splitting the 12g discussion into the UL discussion would be good idea.

The $ per gram saved is a good real world way to look at it, it also can be looked at in a different way, sell my old 60g stove for $60 2/3rds the new price and 12g is gained for no cost.

Tony

PS I cannot sell my old gear, I still have most of my gear from the 70s.

[Tony]

Hi ninjapuppet,

Ive got pretty much everything i need, but my gear is wayyy heavy (pack was over 32kg for a 8 dayer). I'm in the process of changing everything i got and going lightweight myself. based upon what i have now, i go by the principle of $1 per 1 gram saved as the limit i would spend.

eg, if i spend $30 grams to save 30 grams by going to a titanium cup, then so be it.
spending $270 for a new tarptent to save 900 grams from my current tent, seems like a better ratio so i went with that first.

In your case a 48g DE-Maritime stove would cost A$61 delivered. I have a pocket rocket at 86 grams
For me, that would be spending $61 to save 38 grams and would not be a good purchase unless the technological advances in that stove were beyond the pocket rocket.

32kg wow, that would break my back these days, when I did the OT one person had 36kg+, 36kg was all that he would admit to.

As you pointed out a lot of weight can be saved by a lighter tent, this is the same with pack and sleeping bag.

I only look at the end result, how much my pack weighs, not that I have that a bottomless pit of money.

Tony

[Son of a Beach]

Splitting the 12g discussion into the UL discussion would be good idea.

The $ per gram saved is a good real world way to look at it, it also can be looked at in a different way, sell my old 60g stove for $60 2/3rds the new price and 12g is gained for no cost.

Tony

PS I cannot sell my old gear, I still have most of my gear from the 70s.

We might have to add a "Gear Tragics" forum for you and Franco and others to reminisce in.

Tasadam and I had a quick look at splitting this topic earlier, and it may be difficult to do it without one or the other of the resulting topics being a bit untidy. I've had another look and figured out a way to make it work, with a minor edit to one of the posts.

[climberman]

Tony,

Nice list. My gear for four days this easter is a little heavier overall but I should sneak into less that 10kegs for three nights, with four days fishing.

[corvus]

You can purchase a Kovea Supalite for $80.40 delivered on line from http://myworld.ebay.com.au/wildearth-australia/
corvus

[corvus]

Freight cost for the stove in question at $19.95 US is way to over the top for a 48gm item when you can get the heaviest Tarp Tent shipped for $40.00US (minimum cost $25.00) cannot see how they can justify it ,will contact them and ask why.
corvus

[Son of a Beach]

Good point Corvus. That is a rather expensive shipping cost for an exceptionally light, and presumably moderately small item (even including packaging).

However, it's a good price for what appears to be a great stove. If the shipping cost can be made more reasonable, it would be a great deal (assuming it lives up to its promises). I got a Kovea supalite recently (60g), and am very impressed with it, but I like the idea of the wider burner for no extra weight (less weight in fact).

[sthughes]

I recently purchased some air bag things for my car suspension, they wanted to charge just over $200 postage on top of the $88 part, weighing about 4lb (whatever that is). So I have gone through 'Price USA' and it cost just under $200 all up even with shipping to an address in the USA, repacking and shipping to Aus and a fee for doing all that. Some places are just a rip off for postage. (Although even at $200 postage the part was still about $60 CHEAPER than getting it in Australia!).

On topic, I think I'll keep my Superlite and save the $60. :-p

[Franco]

Maybe a point that is overlooked is that there is a chance that someone needs to buy a stove, for example their first gas stove, so this could be a good start...
Franco

[Earthling]

When buying new gear and justifying the purchase I ask myself:

1. Is it going to reduce my base weight?
2. Is this piece of equipment compromising my safety further than I am comfortable going?
3. Is this piece of equipment compromising my comfort further than I am comfortable going?
4. Can I get it cheaper?
5. Have I the spare caaaaaaash?

If yes to all the above....da ching!

I recently spent around $60 and saved a whole 56 grams of my back, whilst increasing comfort and not compromising safety....money well spent.

Money is only as good as to what it can buy you.

[Tony]

Hi Franco,

Maybe a point that is overlooked is that there is a chance that someone needs to buy a stove, for example their first gas stove, so this could be a good start...
Franco

A very good point, after reading Rogers report in the original thread on the stove viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3782 , it would be a very hard to beat for a first stove.

Tony

[Area54]

the point about reducing body weight is very valid indeed. The average person stores approx 200,000 calories (adipose tissue, not glycogen stores), consider your basal energy demand of around 2500 cal per day (varies with work output and ambient temps etc) you can then start to calculate the food needs for a trip - and save a bit weight there with careful food selection. Shrink your stomach with smaller portion sizes to reduce your meal size for satiety, you'd be surprised how little you need to eat to satisfy your nutritional needs.

On my Audax bike I have replaced most of the steel bolts with titanium bolts, small weight saving but it makes me feel good. Plus they don't rust. Is there a performance gain? Hardly, but chasing the grams is part of the adventure, and to push the envelope of minimalist travel.

But yes, losing bodyweight could be the biggest advantage out there. My new raceweight diet has seen a 4kg drop in bodyweight (real adipose loss too, not just fluid or food in the dig tract) and already upped the ante on training rides in the hills. It would cost me several thousand dollars to shave 4kg off a road bike.

I remember reading a story about a hardcore cycle tourist who slept under a tarptent pitched off his bike, slept on bubblewrap and ate dry packet noodles. Minimalist and cheap. Not elegant, but UL.

[DE-Maritime]

Hello, my name is Greg and I am the chap running DE Maritime. I have been reading this thread with interest, and wish to address the issue of freight costs.

I know the postage is high, it's the one thing that we hate most. Local rules here in China mean express companies charge more than almost anywhere else, which is a real issue for us. Therefore, we have set prices in such a way as to have very low margins for us, in order that the combined goods+freight cost is competitive. By way of example, the Ti stove ships to Australia for just under usd$55. The same stove is for sale online in the UK for a hair under usd$54, plus shipping. It's imperfect, but until we get a local distribution point, it's the best we can do.

The alternative is to hold stock in Australia, either with a fulfilment service or with an Agent. However, for our camping gear we don't currently have an Agent in Australia. We would welcome expressions of interest.

Believe me, we'd love to reduce the freight burden - the reason we got into this game was because we wanted to put good gear in the packs of our fellow bushwalkers at prices we ourselves would be prepared to pay. I think we are managing to do that, but I am the first to say it could be better still.

Anyone wanting to get in touch with me, personally, can do so. My email address is [email protected], and my mobile number is +86 1391 8722 997.

Thank you.

[Son of a Beach]

Hey, thanks heaps for the explanation, Greg. We are always very grateful here when industry representatives join the discussions and give us their inside views or explanations. Thanks for taking time out to participate here, and to explain the situation.

[Lindsay]

I ordered one of these stoves this morning. As I have mentioned elsewhere I do not have a gas stove at the moment and after following the comments on the forum this one seemed a good place to start. Cost was $A60.93. I reasoned that this amount would not break me if the product was unsatisfactory and a similar item in Australia would cost around the $90 mark. When it arrives I will note the delivery time and do a few simple tests. I'll keep you posted.

As I was logging on to post this I noticed Greg from DE Maritme had dropped by to clarify a few issues. That he will take time do do this does give me added confidence in the product.

[Lindsay]

As mentioned in my previous post, here is a brief report on the stove:

Ordered 02 April, dispatched 10 April, received 20 April. I also received an email from Greg at DE Maritime explaining that dispatch may take a few extra days as I had used an e-cheque rather than credit card to order. The package had been examined by Australian Customs.

The FIRE-MAPLE FMS-116T (to use its proper name) comes in a neat plastic case with 3 spare o rings. Weighs 50g, or 80g with case. Takes 5min 10sec to boil 1lt of water in sheltered windless conditions. Gas use was too small to measure on my kitchen scale.

As I have not used a gas stove before I have nothing to compare it to, but this one seems OK to me, and I was happy to receive Gregs email explaining about the delay due to payment method.

[Tony]

Hi Lindsay,

Thanks for the report, the 5 min/liter boil time looks good but remember that fast boil does not mean efficient operation, slowing the boil time downa bit will save a lot of fuel.

I will have to get one soon.

Tony