Boots - again!

[freemandale]

I'm returning to Tas for a couple of weeks walking later this month and would like to invest in some 'better' boots this time around. I'd like to purchase some new boots when I arrive and in the mean time am happy to continue using the Keen Tahgee's that I have. They do suit drier weather although I don't find the fit all that good. I guess I'm looking for info where to purchase boots (in Hobart or Launceston as Tas is where I do most of my walking) where the salespeople are more interested in helping me rather than the commission they may get. I have difficult to fit feet, preferably walk in wetter weather and assume I will have wet feet at the end of the day. Any recommendations as to brands, stores, etc, would be appreciated.

Freemandale

[photohiker]

The best plan is to buy the boots early and break them in before you go on any substantial walks.

Depending on you and the actual boots, than may involve anything between a few days or a week to several. I've been on trips where people turned up with brand new boots, and it's generally not pretty. If you are doing day walks and happy to carry your old shoes as backup it might not be so bad though.

My 2c

[Lizzy]

Hi- just a suggestion, wouldn't it be better to buy them before you go so that they are well worn in. The last thing you need for your tassie adventure is blisters Take it from me- I decided at the last minute that my boots were too worn out for 2months trekking in Nepal so got a new pair and boy did I pay for it! If you do decide to get a pair last minute may I suggest you have plenty of blister treatment/repair like compeed. Goodluck.
Lizzy
PS sorry I'm not Tassie so can't make any store recommendations...

[Lizzy]

looks like photohiker beat me too it.... but taking your old pair is a good idea!

[Son of a Beach]

A lot of good boots these days don't need wearing in which is a relief (eg, at least some styles of Zamberlain and Mammut/Raichle), but some still do so if not sure you should plan for it.

In Launceston, I frequent Allgoods, Paddy Pallin and Mountain Designs for bushwalking gear and they are all good. I've found Mountain Designs to have excellent service and some staff from both their Hobart and Launceston shops are regulars on this site and are keen bushwalkers.

[ollster]

A lot of good boots ... Mammut/Raichle

Sorrry, but stay away from these boots, they are rubbish for Tassie walking. Apologies SoaB, but I've seen about half a dozen pairs of these disintegrate, sometimes in only a few weeks, they are junk. Just ask Stu B and ILSWT when they get back from the Franklands.

If you're walking in Tas, get leather one piece. Like Scarpa SLs etc. The downside to buying Scarpas is that you will get ripped off. Don't buy them unless the store will knock $50+ off the price. Compared to overseas prices we're getting reamed.

[tasadam]

If you're walking in Tas, get leather one piece. Like Scarpa SLs etc. The downside to buying Scarpas is that you will get ripped off. Don't buy them unless the store will knock $50+ off the price. Compared to overseas prices we're getting reamed.

+1 on all accounts. Replace reamed with shafted.

[Nuts]

Well.... how do They get through the filter when christchurch doesn't

I would/have/do/likely always will choose Zamberlan, I think MD's are stocking them now? But yer, even though Iv'e never had any blisters or trouble, I wouldnt buy them 'last thing' (especially with 'tricky' feet!)
You will pay more than having the time to order from OS but (given that you need help) buying in Oz is likely a good idea for any expensive boot.

[Nuts]

Watdouno! It does!!

[Son of a Beach]

A lot of good boots ... Mammut/Raichle

Sorrry, but stay away from these boots, they are rubbish for Tassie walking. Apologies SoaB, but I've seen about half a dozen pairs of these disintegrate, sometimes in only a few weeks, they are junk. Just ask Stu B and ILSWT when they get back from the Franklands.

hmm... interesting. Are you talking Zamberlain, Mammut, or Raichle (or all three)? I've heard of no problems with Zamberlains, which would be my own first choice. I've currently got Raichles, which have lasted several years with no problems so far. I've no experience with Mammut (or new 'Raichles', which are now owned by Mammut). My wife has a pair of Mammut (still with a 'Raichle' brand name on them), but has only done a couple of small walks with them so far.

If you're walking in Tas, get leather one piece. Like Scarpa SLs etc. The downside to buying Scarpas is that you will get ripped off. Don't buy them unless the store will knock $50+ off the price. Compared to overseas prices we're getting reamed.

Yes, I always buy one piece leather, myself. But these days I prefer the one piece leather models that do not require wearing in. My old Scarpas lasted 10 years, but wow, were they painful for the first few walks. Seriously too painful. My current one piece leather boots required no wearing in at all, and have lasted several years so far, with no problems.

Of course, everyone has different feet, and different preferences, so will have different opinions.

PS. After I posted this, I noticed that you had excluded Zamberlains from your reply, so I guess you're just talking about Mammut - the rebranded Raichles. The old Raichles have been fantastic for me, so it's sad to hear that the company that's bought them out hasn't kept up the quality.

[rwfox]

I have a pair of Raichle leather boots that I bought in the Lake District three years ago, which are still going strong and are very comfortable. However, the chap in the store told me that Raichle had had a problem with the soles coming off because they were using urea based glue. I think these boots were made in Romania. My wife bought a pair of Raichle's from MT-Design 18 months ago and her soles started coming off after 4 days in the walls (they were old stock).
In Europe last August the shops had Mammut boots that were basically re-labelled Raichles, and some boots still had both names on them. My wife bought another pair of Raichle's and so far the soles are still on. I think the glue problem may have been the downfall of Raichle. However, the new leather Mammut boots should be fine.

Roy

[ollster]

Are you talking Mammut, or Raichle?

As noted in your post... the (top end?) Mammut and Raichle are basically the same boot, IIRC. I know for a fact that ILSWT has had both branded boots, and has just given up and gone for some Scarpa SLM3, same with Stu Bowling I believe. Actually you can add Scrubmaster to the list of dissatisfied Mammut/Raichle owners, I ran into him in Hbt today and his soles have delaminated. He hadn't had them too long either. The suspcicion (as per above) is that the acidic soil is destroying the glues.

If you're lucky (like me) Scarpas don't need too much wearing in. I took my SLM3 on the Southern Ranges for 7.5 days and only needed a little tape around the top of my ankle (I was getting press marks where the top of the boot was rubbing because my right foot rolls out). Other than that they were superb.

[Azza]

Saying that Scarpa in recent years hasn't been that fantastic either.

My first two pairs of SL's each lasted approximately 3 years of regular hard walking. (Repeated Arthurs, Mt Anne, Frenchies etc.)
I've been a little dissapointed with my last two pairs.
One was my fault for not taking care of them properly. No. 1 rule. Make sure you wax then regularly to prevent the leather and stitching from cracking.
My most recent pair of SLM3's the lining split inside the boot on the Southern Ranges walk- after 1.5 years. Something that has never happened with any of the other pairs I've had.
So my first two pairs last 6 years. The last two pairs 3 years. Bit dissappointing. Seems that build quality isn't what it used to be, cost cutting etc, and Tassie conditions really highlight any weaknesses.
Luckily I've been buying Scarpas from overseas on good exchange rates paying < $300. I wouldn't like to pay $450 or whatever daylight robbery they're charging for them in stores here.
Anyway they work for me. So I don't know what else I'd ever consider?

[blacksheep]

http://www.macpac.com.au/shop/en_au/gea ... 11364.html
Macpac charge $279.95 for SLM3 at the moment. the 09/10 model is pricier...currently on an MWC offer price of $439 (20% off the RRP)...the price we buy these for is pretty hard to swallow...
but each foot and each last differs (althoughlasting has nothing to do with the country of manufactuer before someone pipes in with that old chestnut..), so try a few on, and take the advice offered of giving yourself a few break in walks before heading off on a longer trip.

[ollster]

Macpac charge $279.95 for SLM3 at the moment.

Can you still get 45s? I've got one pair and want another "just in case".

[blacksheep]

Macpac charge $279.95 for SLM3 at the moment.

Can you still get 45s? I've got one pair and want another "just in case".

call your closet shop (or mailorder), they hunt around for you

[tasadam]

http://www.macpac.com.au/shop/en_au/gear-and-clothing/footwear/scarpa/11364.html
Macpac charge $279.95 for SLM3 at the moment.

Unfortunately 43 is sold out.

the 09/10 model is pricier...

Sure is, same with any Aus supplier of these.

The boots I have, Scarpa SL's, just gone 5 years old and way low on tread. Sliding all over the place on the scrub when I did SW cape in November, was really surprised (in a negative way) at how slippery things got with low tread, took a few falls that normally wouldn't have happened. So I'm going to have to come at spending big to replace these.
They've sure done some miles though.

Anyone that says walking in Tassie means walking with wet feet, I have to disagree with. 2 pair of explorer socks, boots, Quagmire gaiters (well adjusted is the key), and waterproof pants over the top, I've had extended periods above my knees in loose mud & feet do not get sloshed. Gotta keep moving tho, standing around in the water will wet your feet.
Bit under knee deep creek crossings, such as Junction creek, run across & feet stay dry (maybe a dribble gets in). Maybe I have them done up tighter around the ankle than others who do get wet feet, I don't know. They're comfortable enough to walk in all day, so they can't be too tight for me.
An extra level of protection if you feel it's needed for creek crossings is a rubber band low around your ankle to keep the waterproof pants doing their job.

[Azza]

Macpac charge $279.95 for SLM3 at the moment.

Can you still get 45s? I've got one pair and want another "just in case".

call your closet shop (or mailorder), they hunt around for you

I did try that and didn't really get much help.

I had to resort to overseas. $220 from the UK for the latest model. The postage is a bit of an equaliser.
But ended up being the same price as the old model from Macpac locally.

[tasadam]

I just went searching on the net and found a UK supplier that sells Scarpa SL M3 boots for UK pounds 155.
That's like $275 Australian. Over $200 saving...
My neighbour's brother is about to do his yearly migration out here, so I have sent an email, hoping he has the time & the suitcase space.
VAT over there is 17.5% so if that can also be saved it makes these boots ridiculously cheap.
I saved VAT when I bought my tripod from UK because it was being exported. So I'm quietly optimistic.

Scarpas at that price I can afford. Scarpas at $500 and I think I would put up with the little tread I have left for a bit longer yet.

[dancier]

Just bought the last pair of the old 47-slm3 from Collingwood for $279, they had 2 * 46s and 45s left. The new boot has been redesigned, hence price increase.

[Ent]

As usual boots are a highly personal thing but often not helped by people confusing the last, especially in the width section. People often slam the Scarpa for being too narrow, which in true Italian style generally are but this in not helped if you are buying the BX rather than the BXX last. In Europe the BX last fits around 90% of the feet width but in Britain, Aussie, and NZ it is is way too narrow while the wider BXX is the way to go. However, the BXX is often still not wide enough for a significant number of people. Be warned, Scarpa at least generally only provides the wider fittings for the Aussie, GB, NZ markets so if sourcing from USA check the last width. Seriously, unless you know a boot and the model along with last I would not source overseas as decent fitting is worth more than a few dollars saved and you only have to check Ebay for boot being sold that do not fit. If you know what you want then go for it.

I upset a more than a few marketers but brands that were once made in Italy of NZ that move to China generally take a significant hit on quality, while the Romanian ones are not too bad. I wear Scarpas that were the predecessors for the SL3 and frankly once they gave up killing me have proven very hard to kill themselves. I brought a few pairs of the old model SL3 before they continued the trend towards becoming "softer" but was forced up a size due to the narrower toe box. The notch in the leather up near the ankle meant no great breaking in was required so yes I do appreciate a little bit of softening but think the new model might have gone too far but there are happy users out there so maybe I am wrong.

As for wet feet my answer is no you do not have to put up with that unless hours of wandering in water. As Tasadam says good boots and gaiters should keep your feet dry for a long time in all but the most trying conditions. Scarpa warn that a major cause of fails is people trying to get too much life out of a worn sole so either consider new boots or resoling the old ones.

For me, Scarpa SLs is if properly fitted and suitable for your foot the way to go as I have seen first hand other brands self destruct, especially the Chinese made versions of what where well regarded brands so if someone raves about brand X just make sure they are raving about the model and country of origin that you are looking at buying. The bargains at the moment are the older SL and Treks in the Scarpa range. Beware though that the Trek is a very old design so unless you are very lucky breaking is required but once done you will have one tough boot. I am currently breaking in a set and after four day walks still would not trust them not to blister me though on the last walk they did not. The SL3 as mentioned gave no problems straight out of the box. I am keeping my older faithfuls for the multi-day walks as I trust them to look after my feet and not to fail. PP Launceston might have a few pairs of both models left.

As for price, you get what you pay for and sadly there are many "me toos" from China that retail at the $250 to $300 mark that are no better than casual shoes, sure they feel great in the shop but after day three with a pack your opinion might not be so enthusiastic as a rigid sole and leather makes for arch support when rock scrambling, a very common event in Tassie outside the Overland super highway.

Cheers Brett

[ollster]

BXX last.

Good point, mine are BXX, and I would call that a "normal" width for a shoe sold in Aus...

As for wet feet ... good boots and gaiters should keep your feet dry for a long time in all but the most trying conditions.

I'll add "and a good pair of waterproof, breathable overtrousers". They do wonders to stop water dripping into socks/boots.

[tasadam]

A quick check on the inside tongue of my boots reveals nothing, well worn off. A quick call to where I got them 5 years ago, ah the days of computer records, yes mine are the BXX ones too it seems. I guess that will be important being that I use orthotics... Email to England corrected, thanks. And I thought I had skinny feet, go figure
No wonder why some people complain about the lack of width of Scarpas if these are the wide ones.

Re price, if I can get Italian made Scarpas at $250 - $300 (Australian dollars, and that price includes 17.5% pommie taxes), and one would assume those retailers are making some sort of profit, and the boots have already been shipped from Italy to UK, then there is a serious problem why we are being charged $200 for further markup plus freight, plus maybe duty? As retailers are saying, that's what the distributors are charging the retailers, so we are at the end of the line. But it sure sounds excessive when you consider overseas prices. Yes that exchange rate helps us at the moment, it would need a pretty big correction of the exchange rate to bring it back to a comparative scale.
Bring on global shopping, when the price is more realistic on a global scale I'd be happy to buy local again. I know I will need to pay more in Australia for them, and happy to do so. But not when it's close to 100% more.

[ollster]

then there is a serious problem why we are being charged $200 for further markup plus freight, plus maybe duty?

It's the same with mountain bike parts. I can get stuff delivered from UK/US cheaper than the wholesale price to the local stores. That is, quite simply, bull *&%$#!. Someone is making a heap of cash along the line.

[tasadam]

A popular excuse is "We had to buy it when the dollar wasn't so good against overseas currencies".

[Ent]

As mentioned a few times it is likely there is an extra distributor between us and the manufacturer and this can easily double the price. MSR, Therma-rest amongst others are trying to stop people direct importing from USA sites rather than figuring out why we are doing it. Personally it annoys me greatly with Therma-rest that the ratio of cheap and nasty no name brands is around half the price in both Australia and the USA yet the overall local price is twice the USA price. Got the final bill for my Black Diamond walking poles and it is around $126.00 AUD compared to $219 AUD if brought locally. Oh yes, you are suppose to get local support if you buy locally are you not Mr Komperdell, Mr Vaude, etc. Yes, heard nothing when things went wrong.

At least with Scarpa the Aussie Distributor is suppose to be able to sort issues out, as rare as they are and I believe MD is good when things do not work in boots they stock and PP corrected an issue with my friends Hi-tech ones so there is some support with boots but is it worth twice the price? Each will make their own mind up but I would be a bit careful as mentioned on boots as sizing is advice worth paying for, even at twice the cost, unless you know exactly what you are ordering.

Cheers Brett

[corvus]

I am also concerned that we can source gear from overseas for a lot less than Local prices, IMHO it is not the retailer nor the importer ripping us off it is just economy of scale .
Some places in USA like California have more population than the whole of Australia with subsequent greater buying power much lower wages and retail /wholesale rental space and perhaps we are making it harder for local suppliers with the leakage to USA.
Just my thoughts
corvus

[Ent]

I should say that the extra distribution level may be in the USA with a manufacturer selling direct to large mail order houses but going via a distributor who then sells to Australia. Economies of scale might account for a percentage saving due to consolidating orders and such things but I doubt if it 100% or more mark-up is justified and besides a few places that I brought stuff from at half Aussie price would be considerably smaller than entire Australia or even a large city shop in Sydney or Melbourne. USA is a huge market but I would hazard a guess that as a percentage of population Aussies, NZ would have more bushwalkers with Tassie probably battling it out with the South Island of NZ for the highest percentage.

Boots is one area I am more tolerant of mark-ups as we are asking local shops to stock say three models from three brands with full sizing and this is a massive capital outlay plus requires properly trained staff and this is not cheap. A mail order house that often sources direct from the manufacturer or major distributor on a just in time basis should kill any local shop on price. What I do not like seeing is a person getting fitted at a local shop and then buying from such a mail order house. Fine if you have brought a pair and seeking a replacement but on a few times I am aware people have done this with one even going back to the shop to gloat on how much he saved

Also not happy that a high qualify Aussie boot company was forced to the wall when a Aussie retail chain "encouraged" them into a sole distribution channel and then one day decided to source boots from China and left them with no distribution channel with no warning. Yes, the boots from China were of such a poor quality that I have noticed that such branded boots have disappeared. It is fascinating to track the individual credited with doing this progress through the outdoor industry.

Cheers Brett

[rwfox]

I don't have a lot of luck with Scarpa’s; they normally get comfortable about week before you throw them out! However, If I were to buy a pair of boots tomorrow I would consider the: Mammut MT.Trail XT. GTX .(http://www.mammut.ch) or the Meindl Burma Pro MFS very good (also the Meindl Borneo MFS if you don't like the cushion sole). The Swiss and German boots, I find have a broader fit and should beable to break them in quicker.

[ILUVSWTAS]

The Mammut's are amazingly comfortable and extremely impressive in wet conditions. The most waterproof and comfy shoe I have ever had! Unfortunately I had 3 pairs fall apart in a 6 month time frame so had to give up on them!