Rain Jackets

[blacksheep]

very good value-if you find one in your size you'll have scored well

[dancier]

hi
i am gonna rephrase my question, sort of giving up on the cycling jacket: the local macpac shop has 'aspiring' jackets, the 2007 models, on sale for $150,-.

What are your thoughts? Bargain or crappy jacket?

thanks petra

Take both, use the cycling jacket as a windstop and when it turns to custard, use the heavy duty jacket, that way you preserve the good jacket. I've got a J&H knee length Gortex jacket which doesn't get used a lot but it's always on hand if needed and a cheap lightweight windstop which gets used most.

Buy the best jacket that you can afford and look after it.

[pinarello]

sorry blacksheep,

but that is obviously already the answer the guy in one of your shops gave me. since you are the one having an interest in selling those jackets, this is not an unbiased and helpful comment, is it?

petra

[blacksheep]

sorry blacksheep,

but that is obviously already the answer the guy in one of your shops gave me. since you are the one having an interest in selling those jackets, this is not an unbiased and helpful comment, is it?

petra

what do you want to hear? a long length 10,000mm/10,000mm jkt with proven design and quality manufacturing, quaility hood for how much??? and you reject my comment that it is a great deal?
good luck finding a better deal.

[ollster]

sorry blacksheep,

but that is obviously already the answer the guy in one of your shops gave me. since you are the one having an interest in selling those jackets, this is not an unbiased and helpful comment, is it?

petra

LOL. Jeeze, harsh. Why don't you Just head down to Kathmandu or Anaconda and buy a $150 jacket and leave the Macpac gear to people who appreciate it? Pretty much all the Macpac equipment I have bought is excellent, and it's not like Cam is being deceptive about being a rep, is it? Maybe ask a few questions about why Macpac might be better than other jackets that you're looking at, rather than being like that about it!

[pinarello]

blacksheep: actually i didn't expect an answer from you at all, because i got that answer already when i was at the macpac store. i am sorry if i offended you, that wasn't my intention.

i expected other users of macpac gear to share their experiences and tell me why its a good bargain. ollster, who says i don't appreciate macpac equipment, is it some sort of holy grail i touched by suggesting it could be a crappy jacket? sorry i don't really get it.

and i think posting as a rep of a company on a public forum is somewhat walking a fine line anyway.

again, i apologise if my comments came across as being rude, that wasn't my intention.

[Jellybean]

who says i don't appreciate macpac equipment

Wow! Pinarello, you say! If you had to ask whether $150 was a good price for a Macpac rain jacket, then you don't appreciate the quality of Macpac gear. I'm with Ollster, I have a stack of Macpac gear (including a rain jacket - Prophet) and it's all excellent quality. That's why I bought it in the first place and continue to buy Macpac gear.

i apologise if my comments came across as being rude, that wasn't my intention.

If that's the case, could I suggest that you preview your posts before submitting? I found both this post and your previous one unnecessarily aggressive and offensive.

[Son of a Beach]

i think posting as a rep of a company on a public forum is somewhat walking a fine line anyway.

Many people find it very useful to be able to get information about a company and their products directly from the horses mouth, so to speak, on these forums, so we're very grateful for those companies that do have representatives that visit here regularly.

Of course there is a risk of such people abusing this and using it for free advertising, so the forum rules on their activities are reasonably restrictive, in that they should not make posts that are purely advertising, but rather keep to answering questions that other members have posted. And whenever discussing their own products or services, they should make sure their post makes it clear that they are associated with those products/services (or include such information in their signature).

This is aimed at achieving a good compromise between advertising and information from corporate members, which seems to work quite well.

'blacksheep' certainly makes his association with Mac Pac clear in his signature, and was merely responding to a question. Yes, his answer was predictable, but if people don't like it, they're free to skip it and move on.

Getting back on topic...

If you can find ANY truly good quality breathable and hard wearing rain jacket for $150, I'd say GO FOR IT! I don't know the model you've mentioned, but if it is a good jacket, then it's a great bargain. To replace my own long breathable-fabric rain jacket would cost over $600 now.

[ollster]

i expected other users of macpac gear to share their experiences and tell me why its a good bargain. ollster, who says i don't appreciate macpac equipment, is it some sort of holy grail i touched by suggesting it could be a crappy jacket? sorry i don't really get it.

and i think posting as a rep of a company on a public forum is somewhat walking a fine line anyway.

I'd never go so far as to claim "Macpac can do no wrong", but on average, I consider their gear better designed and manufactured than all others, and that's with a lot of trial and error from me, and obervation of others. So on the balance of things, I doubt you'll be dissapointed for the price. Qualifier: I've not owned a Macpact rain jacket (I have a MDs Nimbus). In this case, as long as the actual fabric is weatherproof and breathable, then I would have no doubts about it being worth $150 considering the design and build quality should be good.

I think it's fantastic that we have reps on here, I wish more companies would consider it as good PR and R&D practise. In my experience it's not uncommon, there are a lot of ISP reps on the Whirlpool site (at least from the ISPs that care), for example.

[blacksheep]

blacksheep: actually i didn't expect an answer from you at all, because i got that answer already when i was at the macpac store. i am sorry if i offended you, that wasn't my intention.


and i think posting as a rep of a company on a public forum is somewhat walking a fine line anyway.

again, i apologise if my comments came across as being rude, that wasn't my intention.

not offended, and my answer is honest. It is a great buy if you can get your hands on one you'll have a great score.
PS- I am a owner/ director of Macpac-I'm not interested in recommending a dud product that will come back and haunt me
PPS- I would be slow in recommending a pinarello to a mate- I would enthusiastically point a friend towards a Merlin or a Moots- their use of titanium appeals to my sense of quality and durability and quiet style

[Jellybean]

PPS- I would be slow in recommending a pinarello to a mate- I would enthusiastically point a friend towards a Merlin or a Moots- their use of titanium appeals to my sense of quality and durability and quiet style

LOL - I prefer Colnago myself (Masterlite steel frame road bike) but I do like my Morati titanium MTB (climbs like a goat, with a little help from it's owner).

Apologies for diverting momentarily off topic - I couldn't resist.


P.S. No offence intended Pinarello - when I saw your name the first time I automatically thought bikes. It seems that you are a cyclist too so hopefully you'll see the humour.

[pinarello]

i am good, no problem. i am a cyclist and my first decent bike was a pinarello. but the name is more in reminiscence of that old frame than a statement of persuasion in regards to the quality of their bikes. it was a classic steel frame which a rather small (53cm frame) amateur rider rode in the 80's. i kept the habit of riding steel frames, nowadays i ride a 'faggin' track bike and a 'breezer' mtb. but then i guess it's just a matter of personal preference.

thanks for all the input in regards to the jacket, and yes i did buy it in the end, you guys just made a very convincing case

cheers petra

[Ent]

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[photohiker]

Sorry for not updating the thread regarding my experiment with Paramo in May. Time gets away, doesn't it?

Seeing as the TGO is held in May, I decided to avoid the 'heavy' Paramo and go for their newer 'Adventure Light' gear. For the Jacket, I chose the Third Element Jacket and for trousers, the Velez Adventure trousers The jacket is short in the body, but works well with the trousers as there is sufficient overlap.

I used it every day on the Challenge, and I've been using it just about daily here in our winter, so I think I can give a fair impression of what its like now.

Do I like it? Yes, definitely. I think the trousers are a size too big but that's not a disaster like being too small.

The material is soft. I've been wandering around the bush for years in stiff goretex or Hydronaut jackets. Even the thin versions of these materials have a stiffness to them, but the Paramo is just a soft polyester style fabric. Construction quality seems to be very good, nothing looks like it is coming adrift, and all seams etc look to be well sewn. I really cannot say if the Tassie garment shredding plants will destroy it but I can say that it doesn't seem to have suffered from the heather bashing in Scotland. I guess it might not fare well if it snags, but this hasn't been a problem to date.

Third Element Jacket:
I'm told that the cut of Paramo gear is baggy and generally oversized but they seem to have repaired their ways with this jacket. It's quite well fitted, and I can fit a base layer and an extra microfleece under it but anything more would see me heading up to size L. Arm length is fine, I can pull most of my hands up into the sleeves. Wrist cuffs are velcro, and strangely, they seem to run backwards to a normal velcro wrist. Not sure whats going on there.

Walking in cool conditions around here (5-10C) I just use a light poly baselayer underneath and I often end up unzipping the front to let out a bit of excess heat. The jacket has a removable arms section that turns it into a vest, this is quite handy on the few occasions I've used it that way. If you're not wearing a pack, the arms section can be stored in a sleeve across the lower back. It has just two front diagonal pockets and a single interior pocket. None of the pockets are waterproofed. It has a good size hood which is attached to the arms section but is not removable.

Velez Pants.
I've already said that I think these are a size too big. The choices were 32 or 34, and I'm generally a 33, so I chose the next size up. Wrong.
Anyway, the trousers have good length, front fly, a zip pocket on each side and no rear pocket. They also sport a knee to hip leg zip for ventilation and they have velcro ankle ties. There is no strengthening inside the ankle area to prevent cuts from skis etc. In the same conditions as above, I have been wearing these with just undies and have been quite comfortable. If the sun comes out, you can get seriously warm in this kit, which is why the leg zips are there. They work ok, but not as good as a pair of shorts ot light trousers. They came with a lightweight belt which I need (probably because of the sizing)

Waterproofness. I've worn these items as a set in some pretty nasty local weather, and as long as the DWR is still working, I have never gotten wet. After Scotland, I continued to wear them for a while and I did get caught in the rain one day when the DWR was obviously not working. The fabric eventually wetted out and I got wet, but by the time I had returned to base (about 4km) it had started to dry out so I guess it would dry out well from wet as long as the rain stops. After giving them the Nikwax treatment, water resistance was restored and I have yet to have water penetrate the system again but I think they must be getting close to re-treat time - I'm going to try just the wash to see if that restores the DWR at all. Paramo recommend retreating before any major outing to guarantee the proofing, and that makes good sense to me.

Windproofness. Absolutely no complaints. Works brilliantly, and is sufficiently adjustable so that you can allow venting or close it up to keep snug.

Comfort. Really good, especially the trousers. The fabric does not catch or drag, so there is no resistance from the clothing. It just feels like very light clothing, probably something like I imagine yoga gear is supposed to be. (I've never tried yoga) In terms of warmth, it's about lightweight fleece warmth subjectively.

My only real complaint is the colour. The trousers only come in black, and the jacket is either black or two shades of red. There is supposed to be a dirty brown colour, but not available when I tried, so I'm all black...

Hope that helps people get a bit of a handle on this gear. I don't regret getting it at all, and I'm getting quite a lot of use out of it.

[alliecat]

Thanks for that report Michael; very useful to have your perspective. Great to hear the experience of somebody who has both walked in Tas and used Paramo - there cant' be too many around that have done that. It does sound as if Paramo is a good option for the cooler months in Tas. Now I just have to find the money...

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Liamy77]

i use a cheap huski cycle jacket for its small size, price, and "dont care if i have to replace it" factor.
I also use an Arc'teryx theta AR goretex proshell
and i have a mammut windstopper mid layer jacket and a MD pod goosedown vest
i have a pair of rainbird el-cheapo pants for the odd occasion too...