Big Sky Chinook 1Plus & TT Moment DW

[wygya]

Hello! First post after some searching and reading around - thanks for having me.

Hoping that someone with experience or strong knowledge of the Big Sky Chinook 1Plus & TT Moment DW tents could outline the pros / cons / comparison of the two tents. That is, assuming they are as comparable as my reading as lead me to believe... I'm after a lightweight 1P tent that will serve for the OLT at either end of the peak season, but also camping in the middle of Tasmanian winter down out of the mountains too.

Thank you

[Franco]

For weight and size, the TT Scarp 1 would be closer to the Big Sky.
The Moment is smaller but about 1/3rd lighter.
Both TT , like the Chinook, can be winterised adding poles but again the Scarp 1 with the two X poles would hold more snow.
For 3 season plus then the Moment could be a good choice.

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my pre DW Moment
On that trip my mate used the X pole on his Moment, made no difference but for something like this

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it would

[Orbita_Serenitatem]

For what its worth... the Chinook 1 is my winter tent, however I have not tried the TT Scarp or any other 4 season tent apart from my Exped Venus II Extreme which as been shelved due to its weight.

Pros? Steep walls supported by the three poles shed snow pretty well and there are many tabs sewn into the seams for additional guys - and the full walled breathable fabric inner gives no chance of snow drifting in getting in and for me gives good warmth. There are four storage pockets (from memory) and the two vestibules are sufficient for a pack and boots etc.

TrailStar vs Chinook 1

Chinook 1

For milder days - even summer trips, the flow of air through the open vestibules is fantastic but at 1.4kg I reserve this one for winter.

[wygya]

Thanks all for the replies - very informative. Sounds like I should be looking at the TT Scarp 1 and Chinook 1Plus... anyone have experience of the TT Scarp and thoughts vs the Chinook 1Plus?

[Orbita_Serenitatem]

... and thoughts vs the Chinook 1Plus?

It looks like the 1 Plus uses the same rain fly/poles as the Chinook 1 except the 1 Plus inner extends to the full perimeter of the rain fly with one side of the inner being detachable to create a space for a vestibule.

IMO I don't see that as practical as the photograph below illustrates - once the inner is detached, wouldn't the bathtub floor walls loose tension and collapse? - If its raining etc. would you have to have the inner detached for egress/ingress through the rain fly otherwise the rain would drop straight down onto the inner floor?

For winter conditions I would recommend a dedicated vestibule or two. So you can take your boots off out of the rain at least..!

[wygya]

Hm, fair point. I'll need to do some more reading to investigate this!

[Orbita_Serenitatem]

I understand that you want a 1+ shelter for yourself and gear - and as I mentioned earlier I only have the Chinook 1 for the Winter so have no information on other 4 season shelters. Also, I've been lucky enough to dodge the blizzards/all day in tent campaigns so cannot comment on small space cabin fever. The fly and frame looks essentially the same as the Chinook 1 which I've had in some rough conditions.

I've found the Chinook 1's interior space adequate as it has the two vestibules and access to both unlike the 1Plus . Also because the floor is small there is less grit, mud, winter particles etc. clinging to the underside when pacing up and all that stuff equals weight in the end.

The 1Plus is a few 100gms heavier, has more floor space, but in the field I think the detachable vestibule is a real downside. Only surmising - nothing factual!

[wygya]

Interesting to hear your thoughts even if surmising - helps me think it all through

Scarp 1 is playing on my mind, and I've messaged BPL about a Chinook 1. Now I'm making the mistake of starting to look for other options

[Lamont]

https://sectionhiker.com/big-sky-intern ... nt-review/ saw this some time ago.

[wygya]

Yep, this is the review that brought the TT Moment DW into my thinking. I'm beginning to think that there is no right answer, just choose one that will do the job and get on with the fun part.

[Orbita_Serenitatem]

[youtube][/youtube]

Now I'm making the mistake of starting to look for other options

Looking around for other options isn’t a mistake - your post was quite specific about two tent types - maybe rephrase the question to “What shelter would you use...etc.”. Most here have a few shelters - all for particular settings,but maybe one or two that were purchased ‘just to get on with you it’ - you’re not alone there!

[Lamont]

Yep, this is the review that brought the TT Moment DW into my thinking. I'm beginning to think that there is no right answer, just choose one that will do the job and get on with the fun part.

Whaa? Did you look at the right review?

[wygya]

I've found the Chinook 1's interior space adequate as it has the two vestibules and access to both unlike the 1Plus

I was under the impression that with the 1 Plus you could set up either vestibule - how is access restricted to one? No option to open the fly on one side or something?

Thanks

[wygya]

I've continued to research options for (relatively) light, 1 person, 4 season, preferably freestanding tents. I am now focusing more and more on the TT Scarp 1, with the BSI Chinook 1 Plus as the alternative.

I've eliminated the Moment DW following Franco's clarification that the Scarp is closer to the Big Sky Chinook 1 Plus equivalent. I looked at the Hilleberg Soulo but on weight, its single entry, and my lack of need for extreme 4 season shelter I have eliminated it as well. I've gone through a similar process with other options and haven't seen a compelling reason to shortlist them - though I am open to suggestions.

At the moment I'm favouring the Scarp over the BSI Chinook 1 Plus due to:
- my perception of better construction from what I have read
- the upright end walls for potentially more usable length
- the fact the floor space doesn't taper at one end
- seam sealing service
- the difference between support across the internet for TT products by Franco versus reports of poor service and support from BSI generally

The Chinook 1 Plus is still in the picture due mostly to:
- its deeper vestibules
- longer length (since I want to fit a Neoair Xtherm Large)
- Australian market availability / support through BPL in Melbourne
- 'more' freestanding construction (seem to me its default construction is freestanding whereas Scarp requires the cross poles - I could be wrong)

I'd be interested in any more views of the Scarp 1 vs Chinook 1 Plus based on these questions (or any other input!):
- Do you think the usable length would be similar given the upright end walls of the Scarp, despite the longer overall length of the Chinook 1 Plus (218 vs 230cm)?
- I understand that the sides of the Scarp can be drawn in to make the vestibules (plural, though a response above indicates I could be wrong) but some people express concerns about their depth generally, and cooking in them safely - any thoughts or other relevant considerations?
- Am I correct that the Scarp isn't freestanding unless all the poles are used?

Any other things I should be considering?

Thanks!

[johnrs]

Hey Wygya
What about the Goondie 1??
Bomber little tent with good local support
John

[Franco]

Correct about the Scarp being freestanding only when the extra poles are used.
yes you can pull in either side of the inner to give you more vestibule space.
This photo shows how to go from the 2 mats to the one mat mode

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however you can pull it in a lot further by undoing one or two clips that keep the inner attached to the fly.
In fact if you like you can take the inner off fully from under the fly if you want to.

[Tortoise]

I understand that the sides of the Scarp can be drawn in to make the vestibules (plural, though a response above indicates I could be wrong) but some people express concerns about their depth generally, and cooking in them safely - any thoughts or other relevant considerations?

Re Scarp 1:
1. Yes to vestibules (plural)

2. I'm pretty conservative, and I'm very happy to cook in a vestibule. I do increase the size of the vestibule for cooking, as indicated by Franco's photo. And I'm very careful! I watch it the whole time, which isn't long, as I only boil water and rehydrate stuff these days.

[wygya]

What about the Goondie 1??

Had a quick look, mostly dismissed due to single vestibule and narrower width. Also inner-first pitching, though I think this has changed in later models.

Happy to be challenged on this - it's all learning for me.

[wygya]

I do increase the size of the vestibule for cooking, as indicated by Franco's photo.

How do you find the floor and lower walls etc behave when the vestibule is created / increased like this? Does it keep enough structure not to create problems if you left it that way for storage?

[Tortoise]

I do increase the size of the vestibule for cooking, as indicated by Franco's photo.

How do you find the floor and lower walls etc behave when the vestibule is created / increased like this? Does it keep enough structure not to create problems if you left it that way for storage?

Um, sorry wygya, I don't quite get what you mean re leaving it that way for storage?
But no, I have no problem with the floor or walls. I go back to the full sized inner for sleeping. There's still room in the vestibules then for my pack, wet gear, boots, stove etc.

[wygya]

I do increase the size of the vestibule for cooking, as indicated by Franco's photo.

How do you find the floor and lower walls etc behave when the vestibule is created / increased like this? Does it keep enough structure not to create problems if you left it that way for storage?

Um, sorry wygya, I don't quite get what you mean re leaving it that way for storage?
But no, I have no problem with the floor or walls. I go back to the full sized inner for sleeping. There's still room in the vestibules then for my pack, wet gear, boots, stove etc.

Ah, my misunderstanding of the design. I had it in my head that the vestibules did not exist at all unless you 'made' them. All clear now, thanks!

[wygya]

At the moment the only thing really keeping the Chinook in the picture for me is the freestanding pitch. Would appreciate any insight as to the difference this makes in practical terms... sounds convenient, but how often do people find freestanding to be a deal-breaker difference in practice?

[north-north-west]

I've never understood the insistence some people have on freestandng tents. Given that you never can tell for sure when the wind is going to blow up (especially in Tassie), a properly pegged down tent is always going to give you more peace of mind. Or maybe I'm just paranoid. But even pitching on rock can be done easily if you carry a little cord or webbing to pile rocks on.

Like you, I don't do inner first tents any more. Currently I use either a Scarp I or a Hilleberg Akto. They each have advantages -- the Akto's single vestibule is generally more practical for storing gear (particularly wet stuff, which I never allow inside the inner) than the Scarp's two smaller ones, but the Scarp has more usable inside space - those longer end struts make an enormous difference in terms of comfort. They also make it harder to pack; the Akto will go into the pack horizontally but the Scarp's end struts are longer and it has to go in vertically. The Scarp's crossing poles add a great deal of stability in strong winds although its fabric is lighter, so if the weather is likely to be really bad I take the Akto.

Tents are always a trade-off. Weight, cost, strength, design . . .

[Moondog55]

Tents are always a trade-off. Weight, cost, strength, design . . .

I add in ease of erection in bad conditions to my thinking, so I look at the design and ask myself what happens if it's raining and the wind is blowing hard and I'm tired and hungry. I am usually tired and hungry if it's cold and wet and windy so for me this is very important. Freestanding tents need as many pegs as non freestanding types but it does mean I can pick mine up and shake it to get some of the water off/dirt out and it scares the heck out of the spiders etc that seem to fins the space under the tent a nice place to rest. Being a very frugalphyle walker I usually rate cost high, as in all else considered cheaper may be better all else being equal.
Not used either of the tents in question tho

[wygya]

Someone save me from myself, I've started thinking that there is some efficiency in carrying poles and therefore looking into trekking pole tents. Is there such a thing as a TT Scarp 1 / BSI Chinook 1Plus / HB Akto / Soulo trekking pole based tent?

[Franco]

When Henry Shires was making /fiddling with the Moment, I asked about a version for trekking pole users (he does not, I do...)
So he started to work on the design that eventually became the Notch.
A narrower inner than the Moment and particularly the Scarp, still can take a large/long mat (63x198cm) but that does take up all of the floor space.
Because you have two vestibules/entry points, you can (with a non flame thrower) cook inside (I use the Caldera cone) simply by sitting on the floor , getting stuff from one vestibule and cooking in the other.
You can also partially or fully remove the inner when set-up if you want more space .
Can take some snow IF set up correctly .
My Notch

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[wygya]

Thanks Franco.

I was momentarily tempted to research MLD and HMG tents but the price, while not a dealbreaker, seems extreme for someone as casual as I am.

The Chinook seems to offer similar specs on paper as the Scarp with lighter weight, but I'm still leaning towards the Scarp for reasons I expressed above. I guess I just need to decide if the weight difference means enough. The rest of my shelter/sleep is a 788g quilt and 570g mat, so I'm moderately light already.

Decisions and compromise... what a pain in the ar$e!