~5000m Gear Input - 3 Passes - Nepal - early March 2018

[wayno]

the essence is a running jacket, it wasnt designed to stand up to heavy packs pressing and rubbing on it

[Flipper Hands]

Is it really that cold in March? I was in the Khumbu in November which should be similar and don't recall it being quite that bad.

I can only go by historical weather;
Lobouche weather averages
Bear in mind I am looking at weather ~5000m, lower down it will be warmer.

[Kit53]

Hi. Would just like to add two things....1. You can buy everything you need in Kathmandu at a fraction of the price and 2. The biggest thing that will effect you being warm/cold is altitude and your rate of acclimatization. I suggest you use a model of one of the major everest climbing companies eg Jagged Globe, Adventure Consultants. We did and have been forever thankful.

[Orion]

the essence is a running jacket, it wasnt designed to stand up to heavy packs pressing and rubbing on it

Here's how Marmot describes it:

"Mountain-tested by guides, this featherweight champ utilizes Marmot's highly specialized,
hyper breathable wind- and waterproof stretch fabric and a streamlined design to deliver
ultimate protection ideal for ultra-light hiking, adventure races and multi-pitch alpine
climbs. Single chest pocket."

I bought mine originally for multi-pitch climbing, where rain can be a serious problem but toting a full jacket is just too bulky. So 99% of the time mine stayed stuffed in a tiny stuffsack clipped to my harness. At some point I started carrying it on ultralight walking trips and 99% of the time it was simply part of my pillow.

But I also wore it in the rain or wind while wearing a backpack. The WPB coating is fragile and was damaged by that. In fact, it got damaged from being in my pillow. I just kept putting glue on the worn spots to keep it more or less waterproof and nursed it through a ten year lifespan. It's still usable.

My Precip jacket of the same vintage suffered the same sort of wear to its WPB coating. It got a little more use so it was arguably more durable, but I can't really say that with authority. Both of them wore out due to the abrasion of simply wearing them under a pack.

The lastest Essence and Precip jackets appear to have very similar coatings, although they are slightly different (Nanopro Membrane vs Nanopro). The new Essence jacket I have is already showing signs of wear after a 10 day trip where I wore it for part of three days. I am not expecting the Precip to be especially durable either. Modern, lightweight WPB jackets seem inherently fragile. Maybe we're being duped into saving a few grams so that they can sell us a new jacket every few years.

[Orion]

Is it really that cold in March? I was in the Khumbu in November which should be similar and don't recall it being quite that bad.

I can only go by historical weather;
Lobouche weather averages
Bear in mind I am looking at weather ~5000m, lower down it will be warmer.

Well of course it varies. Maybe it was technically that cold in the shade. I wasn't carrying a thermometer. But during the day it didn't seem that bad to me at Lobuche, EBC, going over Cho La, Gokyo. It was chilly at times but I wasn't dressed like an Eskimo. If it were really -10°C max during the day I think I'd have had a different impression.

I had thermals and a good down jacket for the nights and early mornings. Without having to carry tent/stove/food, pack weight just wasn't an issue. If you don't know for sure I think it's better to carry a little extra and not need it then end up cold.

[Flipper Hands]

1. You can buy everything you need in Kathmandu at a fraction of the price

So far I haven't bought anything major, I have collected most of the gear on the list up top over the years. I think a quilt or bag is probably the only major thing I am missing. (a -1C quilt won't cut it)

and 2. The biggest thing that will effect you being warm/cold is altitude and your rate of acclimatisation. I suggest you use a model of one of the major Everest climbing companies e.g. Jagged Globe, Adventure Consultants. We did and have been forever thankful

I assume when you say "use a model" you mean use their itinerary, I am. I have actually even added 2 days overall to further allow me to acclimatise, as I have no clue how my body will respond.

[Flipper Hands]

Is it really that cold in March? I was in the Khumbu in November which should be similar and don't recall it being quite that bad.

I can only go by historical weather;
Lobouche weather averages
Bear in mind I am looking at weather ~5000m, lower down it will be warmer.

Well of course it varies. Maybe it was technically that cold in the shade. I wasn't carrying a thermometer. But during the day it didn't seem that bad to me at Lobuche, EBC, going over Cho La, Gokyo. It was chilly at times but I wasn't dressed like an Eskimo. If it were really -10°C max during the day I think I'd have had a different impression.

The last 3 years March has been that cold. Years prior to that it seems have been a bit warmer. November follows that trend and is warmer still. Like you say, weight is not an issue, so I'll be prepared for a good period of days at the stated temps.

[RonK]

Thanks for the info. Regarding you comments on the weather, have you ever done 3 Passes during March?

No, my treks in the Khumbu have been over March - April and into May. I've camped in a tent at Lobuche and it was cold at that altitude but not exceedingly so. Since you are actually planning to start in February it may well be colder. My recollections of spring treks starting in March are of hot days in the first week or so, but most started at lower altitudes. Even when trekking the Khumbu I walked in from Jiri, which gave me a head start in acclimatisation to altitude.

[Orion]

I can only go by historical weather;
Lobouche weather averages
Bear in mind I am looking at weather ~5000m, lower down it will be warmer.

Here are two other sources that suggest it might be a bit warmer (Gokyo is at ~4800m):
https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/fo ... al_7996798
https://en.climate-data.org/location/319005/

And here are actual measurements from 2012-2013 that are in line with what you found on that first website:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1 ... 15.1020417

[johnrs]

Hello again FH
Really the purpose of my post was to reduce your focus on gear
It was 1979, I was 21.
Lots of trips to altitude since then,
and later my kids took me back to Nepal, most recently for a family 6000m peak trip!

Anyway to recap differently,
you don't need much stuff!
I would recommend a good quality warm bag down to minus 6 comfort,
a good bulky down jacket with a generous hood and hand warmers and some decent but not extreme boots
For the last few trips I have just used Redbacks!
These have been good for multiple days on snow and are cheap an light and dry quickly.
Maybe some minimalistic crampons, now that I am old I like walking poles
and for the rest plenty of polypro.

The main issue is altitude and acclimatisation,
read a bit and make sure your schedule is very slow,
and that you stop and wait a day if you start to get some symptoms.
Take some Diamox and Dexamethasone
And get through Kathmandu quickly on the way out without eating any salad at all!!
I stiil use water filters or tablets and have never had gastro outside of a city in the Himalayas
John

[Flipper Hands]

Hello again FH
Really the purpose of my post was to reduce your focus on gear
It was 1979, I was 21.
Lots of trips to altitude since then,
and later my kids took me back to Nepal, most recently for a family 6000m peak trip!

Anyway to recap differently,
you don't need much stuff!
I would recommend a good quality warm bag down to minus 6 comfort,
a good bulky down jacket with a generous hood and hand warmers and some decent but not extreme boots
For the last few trips I have just used Redbacks!
These have been good for multiple days on snow and are cheap an light and dry quickly.
Maybe some minimalistic crampons, now that I am old I like walking poles
and for the rest plenty of polypro.

The main issue is altitude and acclimatisation,
read a bit and make sure your schedule is very slow,
and that you stop and wait a day if you start to get some symptoms.
Take some Diamox and Dexamethasone
And get through Kathmandu quickly on the way out without eating any salad at all!!
I stiil use water filters or tablets and have never had gastro outside of a city in the Himalayas
John

Thanks John,
I am around 10-11 years younger than yourself, so getting up there in age as well. I'm aiming to be 10kg (excluding water and snacks) despite my gear list. I've already tweaked and tuned to a fair degree in response to suggestions. So the message on gear is heard, not just from you, but all who have responded. I'll post again to this thread when I am happy with it.

Why polypro when I have a bunch of wool stuff? I'd rather minimise my stench a bit if I can. Redbacks! Nice My ankles are trash, so poles are standard for me too. Microspikes will come too.

I hear the advice on acclimatisation. I will be taking it glacier slow , with 2 extra rest days if I need them. I like the tip on no salad!

[johnrs]

Yes FH
My last two Nepal trips have been in Redback Alpines,
at about $100, pretty good but I would prefer a rubber rather than PU sole
but it does not matter much.
The polypro was mentioned dismissively, whatever thermals will be fine,
they can be light, I prefer something with a zippered high neck rather than crew cut
and yes wool is less smelly but harder to wash and dry.
Very fond of Diamox too.

Charles Houston has a nice non technical read, Going Higher, if you are interested in altitude physiology.
Charles was the physician on the first American K2 expedition back in the day
and I think his father accompanied Tilman as one of the first Europeans to visit Namche as part of the postwar Everest sth side explorations.
Tilman is another good writer.

So get trekking and please put up a trip report with lots of photos
Happy and slow trails
John

[Moondog55]

Must be close to you finalised gear list now. Are you ready to share it? I think we'd all be interested

[Flipper Hands]

Must be close to you finalised gear list now. Are you ready to share it? I think we'd all be interested

G'Day Moondog

I was still twiddling with it until recently. I've had a couple multi-day walks around Sydney to bed shoes, ankle support, socks in until I was happy, which meant a bit of change. My feet get chewed to pieces in hiking boots so I am very particular with footwear.

I've also had bad lower back pain, made worse by pack weight. I've had a cortisone injection to help, I'm using a TENS machine daily (its coming to Nepal to), and it turns out I have arthritis in both hips, as well as a pair of knees with minimal cartilage. I've solved all the back problems with weights, physio, and stretching. In deference to all this, but mostly my knees, I've decided to get a porter/guide. So my gear list is more relaxed than it was.

I've been training with 15kg for some time on trails and steps, but have moved to 18kg on treadmills (max incline) and 22kg on longer fire trail jaunts, to reduce injury risk (less than a month now).

Most days I will start out wearing;
Sunnies
Baseball Cap
Buff
Shoes
Socks
Ankle strapping
Jocks
Shorts
Gaiters
Merino T-Shirt
Transition Hoody
As I climb I will switch in the softshell pants and long sleeve merino top

In the day pack;
Hydration
Sundry tech stuff (GoPro etc.) and some Panadol
Montane Prism Glove
Macpac Pulsar Hoody
Marmot Essence XL Jacket
Marmot Precip Pants
As I climb I will add base layers and the mitts, microspikes for passes

All up with 2 packs, with lots of luxuries (bino's, Kindle etc), it tallies up to about 16kg, no water, no food.
I'm wearing about 2kg
Daypack is about 4.5kg including the pack (add water and snacks)
Porter/Guide is carrying about 9-10kg

Anyway on to the packing list. I've left my medical list off as I didn't think that would be interesting.

(numbers are weight in grams, subtotals at bottom of each section)
Toiletries:
Toilet paper (2) 175
Rexona Deodorant Motion Sense Original Men 60
Coles Hand Sanitiser 60
GoToob 60ml + Sea to Summit Wilderness Wash 150
Toothpaste 55
Toothbrush 15
Banana Boat Everyday Faces SPF50 Sun Block 100ml 120
Insect Spray 110
Sea to Summit Drylite Towel (Medium) 100
Sea to Summit Drylite Towel (Extra Small) 37
Sea to Summit Wilderness Wipes x 2 (130g) 260
Palmers SPF15 Lip Balm Cocoa Butter Formula 15
1157

Tech:
Samsung S8+ 180
Headphones 35
Backup Headphones 20
USB to micro USB splitter 20
Micro USB to Micro USB splitter (2) 30
Garmin inReach Explorer+ 220
Kindle Paperwhite 210
TP-Link TL-PB10400 10400mAH Power Bank 250
3W Tactical 3 Mode Zoomable USB Flashlight 35
Kestrel Drop D1 40
3 x CR2032 batteries 15
GoPro Hero 6 125
Neurotrac TENS machine + 220
9V battery spare 50
Resistance Band 50
Bushnell H2O Waterproof 8x25 Binoculars 350
WD Passport Wireless Pro 4TB 450
2300

Water:
2 litre Platypus Platy Bottle 40
Platypus Taste Free Drink Tube Kit & Bite Valve 60
Katadyn Micropur Forte Water Purifier Liquid 55
155

Head:
Baseball Cap 100
Buff (Aussie) 40
Wrap Around Mirror Sunglasses 40
Glasses 100
Berghaus Fleece Beanie 50
Windproof Balaclava (bike) 65
395

Hands:
Montane Prism Glove 52
Montane Minimus Mitt 44
96

Upper Body:
MacPac Merino 220 base layer 240
XTM Merino Mens T-Shirt - Black 170
Lyell Merino 180 Polo Shirt V2 Mens Charcoal Marle XL (long sleeve) 260
Marmot Essence XL 180
Macpac Pulsar Insulated Hooded Jacket (Primaloft) (also my pillow) 450
Outdoor Research Transition Hoody (fleece) 350
Macpac Supernova Jacket XL 320
1970

Lower Body:
MacPac Merino 180 Boxers Mens 75
MacPac Merino 180 Boxers Mens 75
Montbell Chameece Fleece Pants Men XL 262
MacPac Merino 220 Pants Mens 180
Kathmandu Beach Shorts (green) 160
Mountain Designs Men’s Glacier 16 Softshell Pants 447
Marmot Precip Pants 252
1451

Feet:
Ininji Performance 2.0 Outdoor Midweight Padded Cushioning (nuwool) (L) 100
Icebreaker Medium Wool Socks 90
Sealskinz Trekking Thick Mid Socks (L) 145
EXTREMITIES TAY GORE-TEX GAITER , BLACK, L/XL 90
Thermoskin Ankle guards x 2 (nylon strapping) 240
Mountain Design fleeces booties 160
Hokka Bondi 5 570
Kahtoola MicroSpikes 384
1779

Sleeping:
Undercling Mike -8C 100g Overstuffed Top Quilt (Long) 825
Sea to Summit Travel Liner (Traveler/Long) 168
Earplugs 5
998

Big Pack
Osprey Aether 70 XL 2350
Sea to Summit ULTRA-SIL® PACK COVER 130
2630

Day Pack:
Berghaus Freeflow 25+5 1420
Black Diamond Distance Carbon FLZ Trekking Poles 365
Leatherman Multitool 150
1935

[Moondog55]

I think taking a guide cum porter is the right decision for practical as well as ethical reasons
I was going to offer you the loan of my insulated pants but I see you have that well covered and the combination of insulated tops combined with Mikes quilt should cover you for more than the expected minimum temperatures

[Flipper Hands]

Ta mate, I appreciate the feedback.

The ethical aspects did come into consideration as well, but, previous experiences in third world destinations has made me circumspect as to how much good I will actually be doing. i.e. I'm doing some good if I buy into trickle-down economics, at best. At worst I may end up only making the richest even richer.

[Moondog55]

It's hard to know isn't it. When I bought my last Khukri online I insisted that the maker get a $5-USD bonus from me as an extra payment because the work was so well done but you never know if the walla actually got it from his boss

[under10kg]

I have done this trip in inov runners and light gear. I suggest to acclimatize more fully with 2 rest days at Namche Bazaar. Most people only take one rest day. The doctors recommend 2. Then have more rest days higher up. Take a few extra days on your trip for side trips and walking will be much easier.

[johnrs]

Hi Forumites
Here are a few notes from a Three Passes trips done in November 2019.
I had joined a private group on the latter part of the Great Himalaya Trail.
Their blog is here https://www.thedahldiaries.com/
and a video here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Nt2d- ... FAln4imV6M

This was my 7th trip to the Himalayas, I am 62 and travelled with my 19 yo son.
Nepal is changing really quickly now, here are some general reflections

The Three Passes is not a difficult walk provided you give yourself plenty of time to acclimatise,
stay well and don't burden yourself with a whole lot of unnecessary gear.
All accommodation is in lodges which can be quite basic up to $100US plus night with all sorts of luxuries.
You should not need to carry more than 10 kilos.
The trail is well marked and often crowded with people walking in line, sometimes held up by tourist, porter, yak or mule jams.
There are small crowds at the tops of the passes.
This is not a wilderness or remote walk these days, the lodges are bustling and the whole of the Khumbu is prosperous and full of activity.
When the sky is clear there are many helicopters buzzing about.
The local communities and cultures are now diluted but the area is still spectacularly beautiful
and short of mountaineering the walk often represents a pinnacle of personal achievement.
Trekking in the Khumbu will soon resemble walking in the European alps.
There are some pressure points, Lukla is still often closed, Gorak Shep below Everest Base Camp can be a bit grim but on the whole people remain pleasant and honest, but do check your lodging bill.
Roads will soon make their way into the valley from below and perhaps from China over the Nangpa La then Thame..
So go soon.

Nepal is changing very fast with an emphasis on education and emigration
Consequently in prosperous areas most young people are studying in Kathmandu or a large regional town, leaving just children and older folks in the villages.
More remote villages are nearly empty.

Probably the most striking and distressing reflection is the very rapid rate of glacial retreat.
Small glaciers such as the one below the Cho La which, in 1979, was at least 200 hectares with a potentially lethal ice fall is now perhaps just 5 or 10 hectares, and will be completely gone within the next decade if not sooner.
By personal observation I can say that this is true all across Nepal.
These glaciers are at 5500 to 6000 meters altitude.

Cost wise we budgeted $50 Aus daily on the trail, this was enough but not generous.
Trail costs were accommodation, food , the occasional shower, the odd treat and costs of recharging our phones.
On the trail all payments were in Nepalese Rupees.
In 1979 my trail budget was $3 daily!
If you need a porter for some reason a reasonable cost is $20US/dayfollowed by a 50% tip on completion.

For personalised or more adventurous travel I would highly recommend Chhiree Sherpa from Best Nepal Trekking.
Over the years my family has spent nearly six months in the care of Chhiree
and he guided our recent GHT group.
Chhiree is the only guide to have led this long extreme route twice.
Here are Chhirees contacts:
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/bestnepaltrekk ... r7xbQvyAvQ
Website
https://www.bestnepaltrekking.com/en/our-team

So here are a few tips, I will put up some gear thoughts in the next post.
The most important thing is a slow acclimatisation, I really can't stress this enough,
sleep 300 meters higher each night and have plenty of rest days and a few spare days too.
Gastro can ruin a trip. A severe episode can be highly debilitating.
Lots of hand washing with soap, hand sanitiser use, treat your water religiously with some form of sterilising tablet and think about what you are eating.
Get through Kathmandu fast and don't eat anything fresh or uncooked there.
Its distressing to pay inflated prices for phone charging, take a lead and a small solar charger.
WiFi is everywhere but charges can be high, get an Everest Link card in Lukla or Namche and make sure the date is long and it is regional rather than village based.

In Kathmandu we changed US dollars to local currency in 500 and 1000 rupee notes at the Thamel Money exchange (9841 965 623) who I recommend. They are just down a sidelane to the right about 100m down Jyatha Marg in Thamel. Do check the rates along the way.
Changing money back to $US can be problematic, technically it may not be legal,
but it is generally possible at good rates on days when the government inspectors are not around.
We bought some light mountaineering gear further down Jyatha Marg from the Everest Summiteers store
run by a sherpa family from the Rolwaling. The five brothers have summited Everest more than 50 times and their Guinness book of Records award is in the store.
We stayed long way out of Thamel in the sherpa quarter of town at the Shambala apartments in Faika 14 Kopan. Probably more sensible to stay in Thamel.
Travel insurance was from Covermore, I think, with rescue insurance (for some 6000m stuff elsewhere) from Global Rescue who are good for the more remote stuff. I don't think this is needed for the Three Passes.
Some brief gear notes will be in the next post.

[johnrs]

Some gear notes for the Three Passes
First of all check the temperature for the time of year you are travelling.
In November early mornings and nights were cold, down to minus 10 or 15C.
Day times were fine and sunny with no rain and no snow.
Keep your packweight under 10kg.
Take a few luxuries like chocolate and snickers.

Footwear: I used 3/4 shank leather lined boots, its a personal preference,
trail runners would be ok if there is no snow and your ankles are strong,
take something light for the lodges at night, crocks and sox are fine.
We fitted some rubber minicrampons just once over the Cho La,
they cost $15US in Kathmandu but could be bought in Namche or Lukla.
Gaiters were carried but not used but I had some cotton minigaiter/ankle guard things from Bunnings to keep the dust out of my boots.
I do recommend these.
A few of pairs of wool socks, two light and one heavy.

I walk in long sleeved collared cotton shirts to keep the sun off. just one,under this was generally an Aldi merino T shirt, two carried,
and sometimes an Aldi longsleeved zip collared rolled neck wool skivy.
Outside a 200wt fleece such as MacPac Tui.
Some long pants and one long Aldi merino wool, just two sets of underwearcarried.
I had a Mac Pac hooded Halo down jacket which was fine, Mac Pac tends to underrate their fill power, you can ask the staff to check the garment tag for the actual fill power. Mine was 700u.
A fleece beany that I could pull right down over my eyes while sleeping,
a good broad brimmed sun hat, I used something vented in cotton from OR.
Gloves and a light pair of liners, and sungloves too from the Cancer Council.
Light weight jackets and overpants are fine, they are needed but probably won't be used,
Good sunglasses but you do't need glacier glasses.
Good head lamp, a set of AAAs will last the whole trip but batteries are and toilet paper can be bought along the way.
The lodges all have LED lighting now. The rooms are dim.
My sleeping bag has a minus 7 rating and I used Sea to Summit Reactor liner.
Nights can be cold in the lodges.
I like walking poles.
A good water bottle is important, maybe two, I used a soft wide mouthed 1l HDPE from Nalgene.
Can double as a hot water bottle. Backed with a crunched up polyethylene soft drink bottle.
Don't buy bottled water, it creates a terrible waste problem.
Water filers can be problematic if they freeze, we used chlorine tablets which have improved over the years.
Take enough for 3 liters per day.
Factor 30 lip balm and sunscreen.
Plenty of hand sanitiser.
A small towel.
Small bar of soap and some washing detergent flakes.

Gear wise the standouts were the merino T shirts , the MacPac Tui fleeces and Halo jackets.

On the medical side, some antinflammatories like Mobic, some Nuromol for pain,
plenty of Imodium.
Prescription wise Ondansetron wafers for vomiting are great,
some Panadeine forte, some broad spectrum antibiotics for skin, chest and bladder.
maybe some ciproxin for bacterial gastro but there is a lot of resistance now,
perhaps something old like Bactrim or something new like rifaxamin (Xifaxan)
Diamox (acetozolamide) is really useful, half a tab two or three times a day for preacclimatisation
and mild mountain sickness symptoms, it makes your hands and lips tingle by changing the pH of your blood and making you breath up a little.
maybe some light sleepers like temazepam.
And of course some Flagyl (metronidazole) for giardia.
If there is a medico in the group or you are going to Island Peak I would also throw in some dexamethasone, nifedipine and Viagra(sildenafil)
which works really well for pulmonary hypertension which is the early stage of high altitude pulmonary oedema (HAPO).
A slow acclimatisation is much more important then the rescue medications.

A Kindle and maybe a pack of playing cards
The smallest pack you fit your stuff in, maybe a silnylon microday pack for side trips and carrying stuff around in the lodges.
Something to put your money in, you will have rather a lot of Rupee notes.
All the rooms have keys and padlocks, you could take your own but its better to keep your valuables on your person

Anyway those are my thoughts.
Go enjoy yourselves.
John