4 season single walled

[lyndoor]

Does anyone have one of these?
I'd be interested in any feedback on a Bibler/Black Diamond Tempest.

A friend of mine has lent me their Bibler I-tent which has only one door & roof vents. (Tempest has two doors, roof vents & vestibles included) Used properly they have had very little problem with condensation & the fabric allows you to brush up against the inside the walls & not get wet. I like this very much as condensation in my old 3 season tent is a bit of an issue.

lyndoor

[samh]

geoffmallo here in the forum has a bibler bomb shelter, which is single wall four season, may you send him a PM

[tasadam]

I looked long and hard at the Bibler Tempest when I last went tent shopping.
All reports were that while a very capable tent, it is better suited to higher altitudes with colder air, the Tasmanian climate makes a single walled tent much more problematic with condensation.
Have not experienced it myself.

[Nuts]

Lyndor, thats interesting that you have had a good experience with the i-tent. I read similar reviews that made the range a bit dubious for tassie (wet). Tried the tripod bivy for a week before selling it on. Couldnt work out whether it was condensation or 'misting' but did get quite damp...Have you had it out in heavy, sustained rain? (I'm close to trying the awahnee(?) which looked to be a good compromise (pitched properly)...

(edit, awahnee was a good design, seems the closest in the Bibler range to being suitable for tassie, not so stable to wind from sides...)

[blacksheep]

good moutaineering option, not so hood anywhere else- the resistance of the PU membrane is too great unless the temperature difference from inner/outer is substantial-the inner will become wet as moisture condenses in non alpine temperatures

[lyndoor]

Thanks Guys.

Going to test run the Bibler I-Tent next week in the Arm River area with a view to getting the Ahwahnee or Tempest. Will give it a review when I get back.

Fingers crossed

lyndoor

[lyndoor]

Used the Bibler I-Tent for 3 nights. This tent is two pole, stand alone & made from waterproof ToddTex with two small closable vents in the roof & one door with an extra noseeum mesh door layer. Poles are mounted inside. An optional vestibule (recommended) is simply attached to the roof with clips & ground pegs then supported with a pole inside.

All dry nights but did have the hose on it before taking away to test the integrity of a mark on the wall. Had no problems with any moisture getting in.
All night were cool to cold. First two nights on shore of Lake Rowallan left door open but fly screen zipped for venting. Some condensation on poles (no prob), dry walls but down sleeping bag mildly damp on top. (Bag too warm for conditions?) Third night at Pine Hut anticipated very cold night with possible rain. Zipped up 2/3rd of door over zipped fly screen. Bad move! Wasn't too cold & no rain. Walls were just slightly damp inside as was the top of my sleeping bag.
Setting up was only a problem as assembly is inside & the fear of breaking poles or tearing the fabric on this borrowed tent made me very nervous. But erecting & collasping is very simple. Fabric of walls/floor & poles are tough. It is only slightly bulkier than my other MD Positron & it is slightly lighter even though it about the same size.

In hindsight, probably on all occasions I should have left tent &/or vestibule door open in this weather. Yes, it does get warm but I did have gear to keep me really warm at night. I think this fact alone would make this a great tent for extreme cold contitions. I'm looking at the Bibler Tempest which has two doors/vestibule which gives greater venting options. This is certainly a high end outdoor use tent. It would certainly make you feel safe in the conditions Tassie could throw at you but as blacksheep said this is more of a mountaineering tent. You have to justify cost & use in our conditions. Having said that, the two Tassie owners love their tents & would buy the ToddTex tents again. I am still very tempted.

lyndoor

[ninjapuppet]

Just came back from overland with the single walled black diamond lighthouse, which uses the (apparently) "highly breathable, highly water resistant" epic fabric.

long story cut short: I am extremely P!$$Ed off, after spending nearly $1000 on this tent / footprint / vestibule / 2 tubes of seem seals.
my first overland trip years ago was done with a $40 black wolf tent, which worked better than this tent

ok, good points: its light and packs extremely small to the size of my palm, and the poles pack to the size of my forearm. It pitches in 3 minutes, very roomy and with quite a strong sturdy frame. specs on paper looked very promising.

My first night at waterfall valley on a pleasant 10C night: not so cold and no rain. i left half the door open, and the other vent fully open, and found..... i was soaking wet by 5am. water had accumulated on the walls, and dripped down to create puddles on the floor. It dripped onto my down sleeping bag and soaked through. for the rest of the trip, i had to endure a wet sleeping bag. both my other friend's 2 tents had abit of condensation, but were dry inside. one was a $200 lightwave T1 from ebay, and the other a $400 krapthmandu northstar plus.

on day 3 when some scattered showers came through, i summoned enough courage to tent it again, and surely enough, it was actually raining inside my tent! no pictures were taken for fear my camera would be damaged by the water comming through. i used a towel and sponge to constantly mop the floors throughout out the night. I then decided i had to even mop the tent walls because water was continuously dripping down. Eventually i managed to fill up 1.4 litres of water by mid morning.! no kidding. it was only 8 degrees that night, but i was very very cold

I think overall, i would rather have a waterproof tent that condenses rather than a tent that lets rain in, and also condenses like my stupid BD lighthouse.

It might not even suffice as a summer tent anymore after a quoll or something bit a 10cm hole into it at new Pelion now. I'm so dissapointed i'm not even going to attempt to repair it. going to go back to my hubba hubba till I research a new tent.

[Nuts]

Golite, BD/Bibler. All the single wall tents seem to be ill-suited to Tassie (and therefore Oz?) conditions.
Reading the reviews (and comments) is is to he expected though...
I have tried those three brands and the 'raining inside' comment is appropriate to them all.
Iv'e seen people trying to explain this and ways around it but never had much success in practice.
There was one of the golite models with the floor seperate from the fly. It would let the rain run out from the inside Didnt keep the bugs out though.
As B/S mentioned, they are a good mountaineering option. Reading the reviews and sites this is what they were designed for..... Some retailers, however, will often make anything fit a buyer....
I would try to sell it on... Ebay (international) should get most of the money back if you can make a decent repair job. For that sort of money, Hilleberg arent much dearer or heavier. They are also designed for conditions more similar to Tassie (winters especially)

cheers nuts

[Franco]

There is very little in common between the Lighthouse and the Tempest.
The original (Bibler) version of the Lighthouse is the Awanee, that is much more like it...
Todd-Tex , the PTFE (teflon and fuzzy stuff) used by Bibler , has a waterhead of around 10000mm, one of the highest around.
Epic, at around 800mm it is about the least waterproof material used in this type of high end shelters..
Black Diamond has now shifted from Epic to Nano Shield, 1600mm waterhead from memory.
BTW, there are many single wall designs, some work ,some don't
Epic works very well in hot areas where keeping sand out is the problem, or humid zones (it breathes very well) but with moderate rainfall.
I have had the Lighthouse under all night (but not strong...) rain and remained dry in it. But also had drips after only a few hours in a storm.
So (IMHO) Epic is NOT for Tasmania...
Franco

[Nuts]

Figures aside, neither is Bibler IME, same duck different feathers. While it may not have been 'raining' inside it might well have been. The moisture build up inside acts that way with any wind.
Not sure if golite uses epic fabric, looks similar (cant bother checking). If so Both (Bibler Tripod & BD Firstlight) as well as Golite Valhalla, Hex, Tarp shelters etc...were unsuitable.

[Nuts]

The Awahnee was better but I was on a search for a tent that would perform similar to a double skinned tent and moved it on quickly. For this to happen it would need to also 'breathe' in all conditions (as in the opposite conditions 'here' for their design purpose). It was a potentially expensive exercise and I would think that vast improvements need to come about to be considered as useable tent fabrics for local conditions.
Perhaps the newer epic fabric may be a better option? I guess people buy these brands on reputation (and tempted by the weight savings) and from O/S. Anyone knowing selling one to use here should pass on their (undoubted) concerns to purchasers or be liable for a moneyback return!

[Franco]

Golite is moving away from Epic also. They still have the Valhalla using that. The other shelters use a 15D silnylon that has a PU coating on the inside.
Silnylon does not breathe at all so it relies on ventilation to reduce condensation.
Franco

[ninjapuppet]

Epic, at around 800mm it is about the least waterproof material used in this type of high end shelters..
....
So (IMHO) Epic is NOT for Tasmania...
Franco

thats very interesting franco! if only I knew that before i bought the tent. But it still seems to be preferred for clothing over in the US by the sounds of many forums like here http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=18298
As for me, ive lost faith in epic with any ounce of pressure pushing water through the fabric.

[Franco]

Ninjapuppet
I am at BPL too but very obviously a lot of folk there have no idea what we mean by "rain"...
Epic is really water resistant, not waterproof for any use.
You need to take some comments from the US with a grain of salt. For example on a section of the PCT where it was recommended to take water turns out that the biggest gap between permanent water sources was about 2 hours.
On another section I was meant to look out for a "dangerous" stretch only to be told later that we passed it.
And keep in mind that I am a bit of a wimp...
Have a look at the comments from most at BPL about the Hexamid (for example) and compare them to mine ( and I tried very hard to be mild about them) and you will get the idea of the difference in weather (rain and wind) that we expect compared to some there.

Franco

[Ent]

Hi ninjapuppet

Great honest review of what was an expensive purchase. Much appreciated. It is great to read the bad and the ugly as well as the good points about gear. Wish you better luck with your next purchases.

Cheers Brett