Arthurs Pass tracks

[Stroller]

Hi. How good are the Arthurs Pass tracks compared to those on the Great Walks, especially tracks like the Routeburn Track and the Kepler Track.

I ask this because DOC recommended these to me as alternatives.

I'm planning a 6 week trip to NZ at the end of the year and I will be touring on a bicycle so its difficult to book ahead. Additionally, i'm on a tight budget.

In NOvember and early December, will there be snow up top? Will there be spring flowers or foliage around? I'd like to witness either of these.

Also any other multi-day hikes you think could be great for a first timer to NZ who does'nt get to see cold country much as I live in the tropics.

[RonK]

I cycled through Arthurs Pass last year in March. Didn't do any of the walks, but the landscape is as spectacular as I've seen anywhere else on the South Island.

The real bonus is that the walks are easily accessible from the township.

My tip - stay in the YHA lodge, they'll let you park the bike in the old laundry room. If you camp your gear is at risk of kea attack. Apparently they just love ripping saddles apart.

Read about it and watch the Doarama visualisations in my tour journal.

North of South

It is not at all unlikely that there will be some snowfall in November - there certainly has been on my previous spring visits.

Did you read my post/see my suggestions in your backpack thread?

[Stroller]

Hi Ron

Yes i did read your post but i can't remember what i thought. Now i've just looked at your link north of south and wonder how long was your trip? It is a route that looks similar to what i'm starting to think of. I"ve only got 45 days. I'm going to also ride the charlotte track rather than walk that so probably won't do the Abel Tasman one and I'm going to the St James track just up above the Hanmer Springs. I had hoped to do Mt Cook but maybe i can come anotehr time and do the bottom half of the island. Also if cross over at Arthurs pass, i will ride down and back to the glaciers i think.

I don't like the sound of those Keas. I wouldn't do day walks but do some loops and then i imagine my camps would be higher up than the Lodge.

I think the second page of your posts looks really useful to me. Thanks for sharing it.

[wayno]

i've done a fair bit of tramping there. they are nothing like the great walks, most require river crossing, rivers are often impassable in rain. often rough underfoot, steep, overgrown and you may have to pay attention to navigation. some routes are basically in a riverbed, some involving a lot of rock hopping..
some places theres easy river plain travel.
there could still be snow up top, it often snows into spring, flowers may not be out till late december.

[Stroller]

i've done a fair bit of tramping there. they are nothing like the great walks, most require river crossing, rivers are often impassable in rain. often rough underfoot, steep, overgrown and you may have to pay attention to navigation. some routes are basically in a riverbed, some involving a lot of rock hopping..
some places theres easy river plain travel.
there could still be snow up top, it often snows into spring, flowers may not be out till late december.

But are they good - beautiful? I don't mind a bit rough - probably more interesting than a super duper fresh swept 2 metre wide path. I guess rock hopping could be difficult if carrying a backpack though.

But its something to think about anyway. Thanks.

[wayno]

it's pretty scenic.

[RonK]

Hi Ron

Yes i did read your post but i can't remember what i thought. Now i've just looked at your link north of south and wonder how long was your trip? It is a route that looks similar to what i'm starting to think of. I"ve only got 45 days. I'm going to also ride the charlotte track rather than walk that so probably won't do the Abel Tasman one and I'm going to the St James track just up above the Hanmer Springs. I had hoped to do Mt Cook but maybe i can come anotehr time and do the bottom half of the island. Also if cross over at Arthurs pass, i will ride down and back to the glaciers i think.

I don't like the sound of those Keas. I wouldn't do day walks but do some loops and then i imagine my camps would be higher up than the Lodge.

I think the second page of your posts looks really useful to me. Thanks for sharing it.

Here's a link to my previous post.

Re: Lightweight backpack - not expensive

My last tour was for 30 days, I've done two other 30 day tours to cover the South Island. The tour journals are here.
Chasing the Long White Cloud
Gone Fishin'

By trying to combine a cycle tour and tramping in one 45 day trip you risk missing the best of both.

Putting together an itinerary to cover Arthurs Pass, the glaciers, the St James Trail and the Queen Charlotte will be quite convoluted, particularly since some of the best routes - the Rainbow and Molesworth roads will not be open in October/November.

But if you start in Christchurch you could cross to Arthurs Pass and then head south to the Glaciers. On the way back north ride the West Coast Wilderness Trail, one of the NZ Great Rides, then continue along the coast to Westport. To me, this section was one of the tour highlights.

From Westport head up the Buller (another tour highlight) and turn off to Reefton. Then through Maruia and over the Lewis Pass. The head of the St James trail is just over the pass, and the other end emerges onto the Rainbow Road, which will be closed so you will have to descend Jacks Pass to Hanmer Springs.

From Hanmer Springs you'll either have to retrace the route back to the west coast or take the east coast route via the Inland Kaikoura road and State Hwy 1 to Picton and the Queen Charlotte Walk. If you are out of time you could get the bus or train back to Chch or take the ferry to Wellington and return from there.

If I had 45 days to tour I'd save the walking for another trip and take an entirely different itinerary which would include taking the steamer across Lake Wakitipu and cycling the Von Road to Mavora Lakes and on to Te Anau, which was without doubt the highlight of all my tours.

Oh yeah the keas. Imagine a parrot about the size of a rooster with a beak to match. They just love ripping windscreen wipers off cars, tearing out the door seals, stripping bike saddles - they'll even go for your shoe laces.

[Stroller]

"which would include taking the steamer across Lake Wakitipu and cycling the Von Road to Mavora Lakes and on to Te Anau, which was without doubt the highlight of all my tours."

COuld that be becuase it was the only bike trail you did on any of your journeys?

Its useful to know that you liked the west coast wilderness trail. (Terrible/useless names they give their trails)

Yes well maybe I will skip the multiday hikes after all but this might be the only time in my life i ever get to visit New Zealand also.

[RonK]

"which would include taking the steamer across Lake Wakitipu and cycling the Von Road to Mavora Lakes and on to Te Anau, which was without doubt the highlight of all my tours."

COuld that be becuase it was the only bike trail you did on any of your journeys?

No. The Von Road is a road after all - just little trafficked gravel road through private property on a day that starts out like this:


On this steamer:


Then travels through this landscape:


To camp at North Mavora Lake at the end of a magical day:


At the head of this lake is Carey's Hut. You could probably leave your bike there and head up the Mavora - Greenstone Walkway. No bookings are needed for the huts, so you could probably do at least part of the walk with just a small backpack.

[wayno]

those huts are over full in summer

[RonK]

those huts are over full in summer

He'd be there in November - should be quiet then, it was when I was there.

[wayno]

those huts are over full in summer

He'd be there in November - should be quiet then, it was when I was there.

not anymore, its going nuts

[Stroller]

Nice PIctures Wayno. Yes i have already done my research into many of the bike trails. And right now i'm trying to figure out distances and to see what's possible.

I notice that the Heaphy walk is open to bikes. I Might even do it. I don't like the paying hut system. What's wrong with simple camping grounds.

Wayno do you prefer the south to the north for general scenic qualities at that time of the year? I'm expecting there to be plenty of rain which isn't really great for cycling to be honest.

My northern route would be something like this:
Christchurch, kaikoura, Hanmer Springs via the inland road, St James Trail, Awatere Valley road to Blenheim, then picton, boat to Ships Cove, Queen Charlotte Track back to Havelock, then over to Nelson via Dun Mountain trail, head up to the Heaphy walk along the tasman trail, Heaphy trail, back down to westport with a side trip on the old ghost trail, greymouth and hokitikia trail. Then maybe take a bus down to the galicers and back for the day, back over Arthurs pass to Christchurch and if time permits, the ride over to Akaroa.

The south version would be something like this: actually i 'm not sure now what the route would be but i'd try to include: Mt Cook and the ride to the coast, maybe Wanaka to Queenstown and the round hte moutnain trail, ride up to Milford sound and maybe the boat trip, maybe a walk in the area but not sure which one, then on the way back, see if i could do some of the old clyde river rail trail route whatever its called. Whether i go over to Haast and up to the glaciers and over Arthurs pass on this route i don't know but i do know that i probably wouldnt' do the south east corner.

I might not be able to fit all of those things in on either route but i'll determine what to leave out after i figure out what i can fit in.

[madpom]

Re: "i don't like the paying hut system". On great walks like the Heaphy the hut bookings are used to control visitor numbers. You're really paying for upkeep and staff to run a very busy, high-maintenance track. As doc can't legally limit access they use hut bookings as a proxy.

Elsewhere (off great walks) huts are mostly free or $5, with a few $10 to $15 a night. you can camp for $5 at a hut (not great walks) or doc campground. Annual camping or hut passes are also available - see the doc website. Off the great walks you can camp (almost) anywhere away from huts and campsites on DOC land for free. Any many of us do.

Re weather - you're visiting at the wettest, windiest time of year when both SW and NW winds can bring rain. East coast and Nelson will be driest. Further south west you go will get wetter and wetter.

After a week or two in the ranges soaked to the skin, a few degrees above zero and unable to dry anything you'll probably figure out why kiwis go in for that puzzling hutbuilding thing!

Having just tramped through the area I can confirm the Rainbow Road from Nelson to Hamner is remote & spectacular. But check opening dates.

Blind Saddle into the Clarence is another great MTB road (off thr Inland Route), but is a there-and-back trip, and a much more bleak, man-modified environment.

Mavora is nice, but the road south to Mossburm is 30+ km ploughing soft gravel: be warned.

[RonK]

Re weather - you're visiting at the wettest, windiest time of year when both SW and NW winds can bring rain. East coast and Nelson will be driest. Further south west you go will get wetter and wetter.

Not so - October/November is not particularly wet other than the west coast, which is consistently wet most of the year.

I've been to the central and southern part of the South Island for cycle touring in October/November twice. Certainly the weather was unsettled with some rain, strong wind, even a little snow, but not enough to detract from the experience. And predominantly there were long spells of fine sunny weather.

The most inclement weather which I experienced on both these tours was successive southerly cold fronts, and westerly gales which can make riding quite difficult on a bike.

In contrast I experienced much heavier rain on tour in the north of the island last year in March when I was forced to sit out two days of heavy rain at Moana, after road closures due to flooding and landslips. And it was also *&%$#! hot - the NZ sun really burns.

It's my conclusion that unsettled weather notwithstanding, spring is much less busy and a better time to tour.

However, as I have previously posted, the Molesworth (Awatere) Road and the Rainbow road will not be open in November.

And also, the Heaphy is only open to cyclists during winter, i.e. until the end of September.

[madpom]

Ok. Was just passing on some rules of thumb from a decade or two of bushwork here in Otago. Rules of thumb - but not gospel. Some years it just doesn't play to the rules you expect. Bit like aussie bowlers.

[LachlanB]

those huts are over full in summer

He'd be there in November - should be quiet then, it was when I was there.

not anymore, its going nuts

Any idea how people are getting out there then? Do most walkers just drive out and do part of the Mavora Walkway as a return trip to North Mavora Lake?
I tried to talk Tracknet into dropping me off at Mavora Lakes in December last year, but they had hardly any groups going out there at all. AFAIK they're the only track-trasport group that goes anywhere near the Mavora Lakes?

[RonK]

I think we are both describing the same weather patterns. They didn't bother me much. Perhaps I was just lucky, but wouldn't hesitate to go in spring again.
In two trips I had only one non-riding day and that was at Haast. No great surprise there.
Both times I had glorious sunny weather riding through MacKenzie Country and over the Lindis Pass to Wanaka.
I did get strong wind riding west to Kurow and also crossing Hakataramea Pass.
Last year I visited in March specifically to ride the Rainbow and Molesworth Roads while they were open. However both were closed during the weeks before my departure due to bushfires. Finally they reopened just in time for the two day downpour I mentioned in my previous post, washouts and slips closing them again. So my ambition to ride these roads remains unsatisfied.

[madpom]

Main resaon Mavora is 'going nuts' is Te Araroa walkers who are headed all the way to Bluff on foot - so no road transport required by them.

Not heard of anyone successfully arranging transport without hiring the whole vehicle+driver.

[LachlanB]

Cheers Madpom,
Had completely forgotten that Te Araroa went through there.

Tracknet had a group coming from Queenstown on their Backroad Bus, and were willing to let me go with that group and get of at Mavora Lakes, provided I payed the full price for that. Hiring was basically what they told me to do; they were happy to take me out there from Te Anau provided I payed to make up for the missing passengers to make the run profitable. Which as there was two of us, would have worked out to $108 a head. Apparently that was the same as what a taxi would have cost...

And sorry to the OP for the thread hijacking. Can't help much about Arthur's Pass, but suggest the Catlins in the south. Middle of nowhere, but really beautiful, if you like that sort of coastal terrain and have the time.

[bernieq]

Some years it just doesn't play to the rules you expect. Bit like aussie bowlers.

nice one

[wayno]

greenstone caples going nuts with trampers and lower mavora with mountain bikers plus the te araroa walkers., tracknet will pick people up from the mavora road end.

[madpom]

@wayno - you heard of them picking up individuals? The only accounts I've come across is them offering pickups if you pay for the millnimum no. of people ... even if it's just you travelling. Understandable ... it's a 90km detour from their main route. Or has that minimum number rule changed with it geting busier?

[RonK]

When I was on the Von Road heading for Mavora, I got chatting with the driver of a bus escorting a bunch of cyclists who crossed the lake with me on the Ernshaw.
Unless it is stored there, presumably the bus would have travelled empty past Mavora to meet the cyclists at Walter Peak Station.
It may be worthwhile contacting the company to see if a drop-off could be arranged at a reasonable fee.
I think the bike ride was run by Outside Sports in Queenstown, but may operate under another name now that this road is promoted as part of the Around the Mountains cycle route.

[Stroller]

Good info Madpom, thank you.

They put number limits on the Overland Track in Tasmania but i can't remember now if they charge you to do it or not. I never got around to it when i lived there.

I found the site with rain averages for the months and actually i thought at the time that it wasn't as bad as i was expecting in terms of it being the wettest time. I cna't remember most of the details now already but i can easily remember that the west coast and south will be pretty wet.

I wasn't considering the RAinbow Road. I'll take another look although i think Ron already told me it would be closed.

Ploughing soft gravel doesn't sound like fun. Thanks for the warning.

[Stroller]

However, as I have previously posted, the Molesworth (Awatere) Road and the Rainbow road will not be open in November.

And also, the Heaphy is only open to cyclists during winter, i.e. until the end of September.

I got advice from a new zealander on a cycling forum that you can get a permit for the molesworth road out of season and i suspect it might be possible the rainbow road if it were not considered too dangerous.

As to the heaphy, yes i might have read that too originally but conveniently forgot.

[Stroller]

Yes can we please take other people's side issues to their own thread in future. Planning my trip is complicated enough as it is.

[madpom]

In / out of season access details for rainbow here:
http://lonestarfarms.co.nz/rainbow-access/

[madpom]

How about all or some of this (if you can get rainbow permits):

Nelson - Hamner via rainbow (gravel)
Either:
Hamner - West coast via Lewis pass (highway)
Castle rock stn via Arthurs pass (highway)
Lake coleridge (gravel)
Or: canterbury plains via inland route (highway)
Tekapo via Burkes Pass (highway)
Kurow via Hakataramea (gravel)
Either: St Bathans via Otematata saddle / manuherekia (4wd)
Or: Naseby via Danseys Pass (gravel)
Clyde via railtrail (cycleway)
Garston via Nevis Rd (4wd)
Nicholas Peak Stn via Around the mountains (cycleway/gravel)
Queenstown on boat

Return up west coast highway if you have time/weather or fly out of zqn

[RonK]

However, as I have previously posted, the Molesworth (Awatere) Road and the Rainbow road will not be open in November.

And also, the Heaphy is only open to cyclists during winter, i.e. until the end of September.

I got advice from a new zealander on a cycling forum that you can get a permit for the molesworth road out of season and i suspect it might be possible the rainbow road if it were not considered too dangerous.

As to the heaphy, yes i might have read that too originally but conveniently forgot.

Yes, I got a permit for the Molesworth (in season) last year during the bushfire closures. I can't recall exactly how long, but I think it took over a week to process my application, and you have to be specific about the dates so it made tour planning quite difficult. The online permit application is here.

Getting permission to use the Rainbow Road will likely depend of if it is passable. There are many fords along the road and the streams may be running too high to cross safely. Also likely washouts and slips after the thaw. I tried to contact the station manager last year for permission during a closure after heavy rain but could only get a recorded message, and didn't want to risk riding all the way out to the station only to discover the road closed. I suspect you may have better luck getting access to the Molesworth.