Nepal gear list

[under10kg]

I am off to do the 3 passes at Everest next week with no porter or guide.
I would like any suggestions, changes or improvements in my gear list below.

G4 pack 460g
liner 110
Overpants
+ parka 287
sleeping bag 820
Down hood 92
shorts 120
overmits gortex 40
beanie possum 38
possum gloves 38
Windshirt 92
insulating top 225
wool long johns
+ wool top 350
day pack 200
socks 3 120
undies 3 150
First aid drugs 200
GPS, water treatment
headlight, water bottle
repair kit, map ?
Total 3325gms

Walking. Long shirt, long pants, pacer poles, hat, face covering and face mask. Inov 212 runners
I had thought to take a tarp 293 gms but with a gps track for the walk not sure.

[RonK]

Seems very light - too light perhaps, and no shell? Not even a softshell? It will be autumn - what temps are you expecting? The tea houses can be very cold overnight -10C to - 15C not unusual in October.
Seems overly optimistic to pack assuming only fine weather. Good luck!

Also, it's quite early in the season and the monsoon may not yet have ended. How much padding do you have in your itinerary? If you are flying in and out be prepared for cancelled flights for several days in a row. And remember once your flight is cancelled you're on the end of the queue.

[under10kg]

I do not think I have assumed good weather. I have experienced bad weather in the Everest area in October. Usually the weather in October is great but bad storms can come.
I have an insulating backpackinglight top. I have full waterproofing breathable outer layer. So 3 layers on the legs and 5 layers on top if needed. 3 layers on the head and 2 layers on the hands.
Do you feel this in not enough?
I used the parka and over-pants last time I was at Everest in the storm that unfortunately killed many in Annapurna. It was amazing to see the lack of gear some carried on the trail that day.
The tea houses supply extra blankets if needed.
We do have some extra days for cancelled flights.
We are doing Everest base camp first before the first of the passes for acclimatization.
Having a heavy pack over 5000 m is not much fun.

[RonK]

I do not think I have assumed good weather. I have experienced bad weather in the Everest area in October. Usually the weather in October is great but bad storms can come.
I have an insulating backpackinglight top. I have full waterproofing breathable outer layer. So 3 layers on the legs and 5 layers on top if needed. 3 layers on the head and 2 layers on the hands.
Do you feel this in not enough?
I used the parka and over-pants last time I was at Everest in the storm that unfortunately killed many in Annapurna. It was amazing to see the lack of gear some carried on the trail that day.
The tea houses supply extra blankets if needed.
We do have some extra days for cancelled flights.
We are doing Everest base camp first before the first of the passes for acclimatization.
Having a heavy pack over 5000 m is not much fun.

There was a storm of similar severity to the one that resulted in last year's Annapurna disaster, only the previous season in the Everest region.
If you think you are suitably equipped for that kind of weather then it's your call. It's your gear and you should know best how it performs, but your description doesn't really convey this and it seems light to me.
Not many would find carrying extra weight at that altitude fun. But they don't do it for fun.

[under10kg]

Thanks for your comments. I will think about it. I have used the same gear in high winds and sleet in tasi as well as a snow storm in nepal. I would not do any passes in nepal without a good weather forecast. The tea houses are close together on all the other parts of the walk. Any other opinions?

[wayno]

is your parka your rainshell? because parka can meana wide range of jacket designs with hoods including insulated jackets

[under10kg]

5 layers possible. Parka is my rainshell with a hood. Insulating jacket. Windjacket, Long sleeve shirt, long sleeve wool thermal. I have never used all these layers walking as it would be too hot.

[wayno]

layering for the seasons

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/a/11070/H ... ach-Season

[horsecat]

Well done, you must be excited. But I’m interested in your choice of couple of things.

Trail runners are great for most of the way on the tracks in good weather. I wear them for as long as I can. But boots, gaiters and micro spikes (maybe crampons too) are going to be handy on those passes, especially the Cho La. Maybe lower down too.

If you are planning on going over the Cho La (no matter what the weather looks like earlier in the day) without adequate support I’d consider at least an emergency bivy bag (quality one) or preferably a tent (quality one). Don’t take that joint lightly, I’ve been slightly smacked there before (but had quality stuff). You’ll need a tent for the Kongma La high camp as well. In fact, if you are doing the three passes you need a tent in my opinion. I’d also take a sleeping mat of sorts; something good with feathers in it. GPS could be handy in bad weather but have the relevant maps loaded prior.

Crossing the Kongma La might need you to cook and melt water for hydration, what’s the plan? Cho La too. A MSR Reactor / Jetboil an option there? Hydration is handy at altitude.

Heading into EBC before any passes doesn’t make all that much sense as you’d have to do a big backtrack to go over the Kongma La which is about as high as EBC anyway. But you might have other reasons…

Obviously your list doesn’t include spare batteries, camera stuff, water bottle/s, sunglasses for snow, toiletries, sunscreen, bog roll, food and all the other stuff I can’t remember which might bump up the weight a bit…I’d take some extra clothes too.

Anyway, not meaning to be too critical but your list seemed more appropriate for a tea house trip rather than a solo three passes trek where things can turn to crap nice and fast.

Good luck with the trip and stay safe matey.

[hobbitle]

But boots, gaiters and micro spikes (maybe crampons too) are going to be handy on those passes, especially the Cho La.

I wouldn't say handy, I would say essential. You will get freezing cold feet and risk losing your toes if you wear trail runners over the passes, plus the passes can get very icy and dangerously slippery on the steep downhill (one pass is especially bad for this I just can't remember which).

+1 to basically everything else horsecat said (though if it were me I would be taking better insulating clothing and the emergency bivy, but no tent, because you're right - noone wants to carry a tent at 5000m+).

[wayno]

still not enough information on hte gear, a 200gm insulating top. that could be a fleece or a synthetic or down jacket, either way its too light. and you need more than one insulating layer, the wool top wont add enough insulation. the puffy layers add the real insulation

[horsecat]

I wouldn't say handy, I would say essential

Yep!!!

Sometimes you just have to take the extra weight. I know it hurts but these packs weigh around 20kg (complete with tents, mats, sleeping bags, cooking gear, etc, etc) and we hauled them up to 7,000m in deep snow doing all our own multiple load carries so it can be done. And besides I'd rather not be a frozen corpse

[aloftas]

But boots, gaiters and micro spikes (maybe crampons too) are going to be handy on those passes, especially the Cho La.

I wouldn't say handy, I would say essential. You will get freezing cold feet and risk losing your toes if you wear trail runners over the passes, plus the passes can get very icy and dangerously slippery on the steep downhill (one pass is especially bad for this I just can't remember which).

+1 to basically everything else horsecat said (though if it were me I would be taking better insulating clothing and the emergency bivy, but no tent, because you're right - noone wants to carry a tent at 5000m+).

This^ and I don't even know what Im on about
So, I am researching Cuben fibre bothys.
I think people are disrespectful to the ethos of survival heading out with minimalist gear and next to no contingencies.
Anyway.

[hobbitle]

a 200gm insulating top. that could be a fleece or a synthetic or down jacket, either way its too light

true I wouldn't be going near that area without 200g of 800+ down available to me.

[Supertramp]

I am off to do the 3 passes at Everest next week with no porter or guide.
I would like any suggestions, changes or improvements in my gear list below.

G4 pack 460g
liner 110
Overpants
+ parka 287
sleeping bag 820
Down hood 92
shorts 120
overmits gortex 40
beanie possum 38
possum gloves 38
Windshirt 92
insulating top 225
wool long johns
+ wool top 350
day pack 200
socks 3 120
undies 3 150
First aid drugs 200
GPS, water treatment
headlight, water bottle
repair kit, map ?
Total 3325gms

Walking. Long shirt, long pants, pacer poles, hat, face covering and face mask. Inov 212 runners
I had thought to take a tarp 293 gms but with a gps track for the walk not sure.

You have to factor in that the temps will get very low, but do not forget that they will be amplified by the wind chill factor at the higher altitude. I personally think the list you put up is not adequate for where you are wanting to go. More clarification is needed.

[Moondog55]

If that's the BPL ultralite pullover ? it will need boosting with at least a LW fleece jumper [ and a downie over the top if it was me] and mittens as a third layer of the hands and at least a LW balaclava
Lets put it this way; I take more for a day walk at Falls Creek in winter than you list for the 3 passes and I always wear mountaineering boots and take an axe and crampons there

[frenchy_84]

Whats your itinerary if your going to EBC first? It doesn't make sense to go to EBC first for acclimatization, you might as well have an acclimatization day at Chukung and climb chuckung ri, which gives you a chance to experience higher altitude while still being able to sleep lower. The Khumbu valley is the worst part of the trip (ive seen more attractive mine sites than that glacier) so I wouldn't want to do it twice. I wont go in to your gear list cause I just dont get the point of being that light, but I will say that its so *&%$#! cold of a night in the tea houses I had a proper down jacket plus other layers and was still cold.

[johnrs]

And a second to the suggestion of a down jacket with a good hood
and some reasonably solid boots.

A long time ago I tried to cross the Copland pass in Volleys with crampons on them,
and only had one fall, was pleased to self arrest and put on my boots.

From memory, there have been a good number of fatal slides on the Cho La??
John

[hobbitle]

tried to cross the Copland pass in Volleys with crampons on them,

[under10kg]

How many of the people replying to my gear list actually use ultralight gear in their normal backpacking? Anyone? Some of the suggestions do not seem to be relevant in a ultralight backpacking forum.

Of course I would check and I would not do any pass with reports of bad ice, heavy snow the day before or a bad weather forecast. With all these conditions are met I feel runners are fine. Runners and a light pack means you can move very fast if need be. At times I have walked on snow and a icy trail with runners in Nepal and NZ.

Gee that post from a guy that did the 3 passes in 5 fingers must be mad!

Much thanks for all the comments. I do remember some years ago posting my gear list for the Western Arthurs on this forum and I got abusive replies. Things have improved!

[johnrs]

Unfortunately Under 10 kg
Altitude cold snow and ice
mean that misadventure and death occur more frequently in the big mountains
John

[horsecat]

Some of the suggestions do not seem to be relevant in a ultralight backpacking forum

And perhaps some trips don't belong in the ultra-light backpacking section...

I'm sure you're wouldn't be relying on the commercial groups in the area to help out if you get caught up high, that is of course really bad form (but funnily enough that happens over there all the time for some reason).

bad weather forecast

Umm, don't rely on those.

Anyway, it sounds like you're all sorted. I wish you luck

[Orion]

under10kg -- I have only been over the Cho La so I can't speak about the other two. Conditions change. But when I did it it was in simple boots. I sent my ice axe and crampons home before I went up to loop through the Everest Region. I know someone else who went over in runners when it was quite icy and she was okay. Sometimes it is a matter of technique. But although it is possible without the gear you may have to turn around if conditions are not right and watch as others continue. It's one of the trade-offs with a lightweight approach. It sounds like you already know this though.

[wayno]

How many of the people replying to my gear list actually use ultralight gear in their normal backpacking? Anyone? Some of the suggestions do not seem to be relevant in a ultralight backpacking forum.

Of course I would check and I would not do any pass with reports of bad ice, heavy snow the day before or a bad weather forecast. With all these conditions are met I feel runners are fine. Runners and a light pack means you can move very fast if need be. At times I have walked on snow and a icy trail with runners in Nepal and NZ.

Gee that post from a guy that did the 3 passes in 5 fingers must be mad!

Much thanks for all the comments. I do remember some years ago posting my gear list for the Western Arthurs on this forum and I got abusive replies. Things have improved!

if you want to do that trip with ultralight gear, good luck, there are lots of ultralight walkers who have done those types of trips who are now no longer with us. and a lot who needed rescuing to save their lives.
selecting gear isnt about a game to keep your weight under a threshold its about selecting gear that will keep you alive and safe and ideally stop you from suffering too much...
we see ultralighters in NZ all the time struggling to survive, we read about them in the news too and the news sometimes ends very badly.

[under10kg]

Good points all. Much more care is needed if going light in Nepal. I do not remember suffering on my last Nepal trip!
I just make a pair of micro spikes to go under my runners if it gets a bit icy. Seems to grip great at 15gm each. I do find inov 212 runners have much better grip than vibran boots. On my last Nepal trip all the boot people were sliding on an icy path to base camp while the inov runners did not.

[wayno]

its the outdoors, no to trips to teh same place may be the same. the higher you go the colder it gets and the trickier the conditions. base came isnt the three passes, dont compare oranges with apples

[wayno]

annapurna trail. countless thousands walk it safely in season every year, how hard can it be??
until an out of season storm came in unexpectedly, and killed 40 people.

http://www.outsideonline.com/1926921/wh ... -die-nepal

[johnrs]

Sorry Under 10 kg
I got frostbite back to both my midfeet in something similar to your Innov 8
In the Garwhal many years ago and only at 14,000 ft.
Lots of blistering, pain 3 +, 8 toenails fell off and many trips to Indian hospitals for dressings
but all healed OK.
I guess they are your body parts
John

[horsecat]

I do find inov 212 runners have much better grip than vibran boots. On my last Nepal trip all the boot people were sliding on an icy path to base camp while the inov runners did not.

*Sigh*. It's not about grip when saying you should take boots; it's about keeping your ten toes and not turning them into things that look like burnt sausages. Crampons / micro spikes are for grip on the ice.

I agree with Wayno, don't try to compare the Three Passes with EBC, they are higher, colder, more exposed (open to worse winds), there are no tea houses (with warm blankets to give you), you are more committed (bad weather / sickness / injury), I've seen some nice crevasses and avalanches on the Cho La in particular, they are harder to navigate in bad weather, altitude sickness is an issue if it hits in the night, the days are very long if intending on going over in one day (with the exception of the Renjo La) and how are you going to hydrate yourself? Communications in the case of an emergency???

Anyway, I reckon you should go for it. Have fun.

[hobbitle]

How many of the people replying to my gear list actually use ultralight gear in their normal backpacking?

Most of us who hang out here pack ultralight for the conditions. That doesn't mean aiming for a 4.5kg base weight when going to 6000m.

Also, you made microspikes at 15g each?