Dont Hike Alone?

[photohiker]

I remember reading about that accident at the time. Be interesting to hear the results.

If you read the report, the crew were not wearing life jackets and three crew died of blunt force trauma while the remaining crew member drowned. Even with an emergency response there may not have been much chance but the point the legal case is based on appears to be that GEOS received an emergency notification without a GPS trace. GEOS attempted to contact the registered owner and the primary and secondary emergency contacts but got no answer.

The Spot Connect was logging points up until the crash, so it would appear that this accident unearthed a protocol error where GEOS did not have access to or a requirement to check the tracking points. If it had, they should have seen the device was in use and acted accordingly. GEOS is the emergency responder, not the tracking service.

Lengthy US Sailing report is here: http://offshore.ussailing.org/AssetFact ... ?vid=19623 (Page 90 shows the GEOS log)

I will ask my contact at Delorme if this is the case and if GEOS routinely checks tracking on emergency notification. I'd guess they might not make much comment about the legal case but they may respond to the tracking issue.

[Giddy_up]

Maker of GPS device sued in yacht race crash that left 4 sailors dead

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... z2ycduAPVO

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... z2xut2LhR6

I wish the family all the luck in the world in getting damages. The key letters in that media release are "LLC", which stands for Limited Liability Company. If these guys have registered their LLC in Nevada or Texas etc, but are conducting business elsewhere the family will not be able to pierce the corporate veil and reach into that company and get damages. It's a shame but it's the way the U.S system is structured.

[photohiker]

Maker of GPS device sued in yacht race crash that left 4 sailors dead

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... z2ycduAPVO

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... z2xut2LhR6

I wish the family all the luck in the world in getting damages. The key letters in that media release are "LLC", which stands for Limited Liability Company. If these guys have registered their LLC in Nevada or Texas etc, but are conducting business elsewhere the family will not be able to pierce the corporate veil and reach into that company and get damages. It's a shame but it's the way the U.S system is structured.

Agree. I think this would be the reason there are multiple defendants nominated. If they can't get anything out of spot, they move down the line. If they can prove their case and it sure looks likely from here, then I'd guess the other famous US justice system will come into play: out of court settlement.

[Giddy_up]

Your right photohiker, I would also imagine that there are some govt regulations imposed on companies in this space with regards to insurance. If there is no insurance you may see Spot LLC get wound up to the tune of $5 and then re-emerge with a new name but with the same people and equipment behind it. It will depend a lot on how valuable they consider the brand. Gotta love America.............

[icefest]

Lengthy US Sailing report is here: http://offshore.ussailing.org/AssetFact ... ?vid=19623 (Page 90 shows the GEOS log)

The best bit, a direct comparison of SPOT vs EPIRB:

EPIRB (SARSAT) advantages vs. SPOT/GEOS** (and other SEND’s devices)

1. EPIRBS designed to float and function in the water - SPOT not
2. SAR Assets can RDF (home in on) EPRIBS signals - but not on SPOT signals
3. EPIRB generally water activated (not 100% of existing EPIRB’s are water activated… some older CAT II beacons are only manual activated) - SPOT requires button to be pressed
4. EPIRBS function and the SARSAT system provides location data even without GPS position - SPOT needs both GPS and messaging satellite lock to function5. EPIRB dedicated to mayday signal so battery not run down by other functions while SPOT may run down battery with tracking and messages before SOS (some SEND’s devices are required to shut down at a certain battery level to ensure the SOS function is available)
5. EPIRB signal goes directly to RCC centers who control the SAR resources - SPOT adds an additional step (GEOS) adding the increased possibility of delay and human failure
6. USCG RCC assumes an EPIRB signal is positive until proven false. Upon receipt of a located alert, the Coast Guard will start the process to deploy SAR assets to that known position. These assets have 30 minutes (some are much quicker to get underway than others, and many take much less than 30 min to get underway) to get underway to the position, (and for the USCG it is viewed as easier to recall the assets rather than wishing you had sent them out earlier). While the SAR asset is preparing to get underway, the SAR controller attempts to gather more information about the alert (calling emergency contact in the registration data base, perhaps having local police knock on doors if no answer at contact or checking with marina, or looking at websites/blogs or doing other detective work) If the alert is determined to be non-distress, the asset is stood down or recalled. If the received alert is un-located but registered, the Coast Guard works with the emergency contact provided in the registration database to narrow down a search area. Once a reasonable search area has been determined, rescue assets are deployed. If the distress alert is un-located and unregistered, the Coast Guard will continue to evaluate and monitor. Additional satellite passes may be needed to determine a location so that an effective search area can be developed. While SPOT/GEOS has a narrower commercial/profit mandate (to call the emergency contact, and if there is a lat/long in the SOS signal to call the SAR/USCG). GEOS will continue to monitor an SOS signal until they get location data that they can forward to the USCG/SAR.
7. The EPIRB communication protocol is technically more robust and less likely to have dropped messages. You can see in the SPOT track that it regularly drops messages - they should be every 10 minutes but are not when a message gets dropped.

SPOT/GEOS (and other SEND’s devices) advantages v EPIRB (SARSAT)

1. Some SPOT models (and other such devices) have some amount of 1 or 2iway messaging capability, which can provide useful information on the type of incident to the SAR assets - EPIRB has no messaging capability, only sends an alert.
2. SPOT does potentially have track position data available as backup if SOS signal does not get GPS fix while EPIRB could be quickly sunk attached to vessel so fast as not to create an accurate fix and there is no prior track to the look at.
3. SPOT has multi-functions, providing more day to day benefits to users.
4. The use of the day-to-day functions confirms the SPOT unit works; whereas it is always a bit unknown if the EPIRB will function when turned on (the self-test function will ensure G-EPIRB’s work; following website has good background on this:
   http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/Beacon%20Tes ... olicy.html).
5. Many EPIRB batteries are quite expensive to replace which SPOT uses everyday batteries.

Disadvantages of both

1. Difficulty of contacting emergency contact at night, and lack of knowledge by emergency contact, or incorrect or no registration information
2. Slow time to get fix by both units in case of fast sinking taking units with the ship (EPIRB should be mounted to float free)

[wayno]

my understanding is Personal Locator Beacons (PLB's) operate under the same system as EPIRB's
EPIRB's are optimised specifically for boats.. PLB's arent boat specific, they usually don't float like EPIRBs.

[Strider]

EPIRBs are required to float with the antenna clear of the water and be capable of continuous transmission for 48 hours+.

PLBs may be buoyant, though are not required to maintain the antenna clear of the water. Continuous transmission is required to be 24 hours+.

[stry]

And how you want to use it. SPOT is not a PLB replacement.

Nice and succinct. That says it all.

[wayno]

so if your SPOT subscription has lapsed and you don't realise it , and go on a trip.... what happens? does the satellite refuse to let it connect? even if the connection isnt refused, will the SOS function work? assuming someone is paying attention to any signals at the other end and your position is reasonably traceable.

[walkerchris77]

Also guys be aware if u have private health cover the ambo cover in some only cover life threatening injuries. I pay top cover and found out if I break a leg its not deemed life threatening and im not covered. So I had to take out victoria ambo cover too.

[GPSGuided]

The Spot Connect was logging points up until the crash, so it would appear that this accident unearthed a protocol error where GEOS did not have access to or a requirement to check the tracking points. If it had, they should have seen the device was in use and acted accordingly. GEOS is the emergency responder, not the tracking service.

I can see how the privacy protocol may have restricted the SOS operator from accessing those critical track data. As much as they'd like the data, they are not authorised to access that data. The data is boxed within SPOT's server.