Scarpa Escape - Waterproofing

[stewartp]

Just picked up a pair of the Scarpa Escape GTX. I had a pair of SLs that are maybe 6 years old but have done less than 200km.... my feet just didnt like them and I am over trying to bond with them! The Escape were a good price so I thought I'd give them a go (not like we have loads of boot choice in Hobart).

The Escape's uppers are Crosta leather with the textured side on the outside - so like suede. They come HS12 treated (water proofing).

The recommendation on the documentation is to treat them with Nikwax Fabric and Leather treatment. Or, for maximum water resistance, to use Aqueous Nikwax (which is normally recommended for those boots with the textured side on the inside).

So, questions:

1. Is this HS12 going to be sufficient for a while or should I apply something else now, from new? Anyone had experience with it?

2. Should I apply something else? If so, should I stick with the Nikwax Fabric and Leather treatment, or go for the Aqueous Nikwax for maximum proofing?

3. Would Snow Seal be ok? (I have a large tub sitting here). If I apply Snow Seal what will the effect be on what is really a soft suede finish? Will that be much different to applying Aqueous Nikwax?

Any advice most welcome.

[corvus]

If you read the instructions on the Snow Seal container it should say that it is not recommended for suede but it will act as a waterproofing agent (two way bet) I have seen it used on suede type boots and it appears to work .
I think soab may have used it in the past on Nubuck boots.
c

[stewartp]

Yes, the instructions say it will darken the leather which doesn't bother me - I assume Aqueous Nikwax will do the same. From what I have read it seems Snow (Sno) Seal will flatten the nap of suede and so change its appearance. The nap on the Explorers is short (if that makes sense) so I'm wondering if it will matter.

EDIT: I remembered I had a pair of Hard Yakka boots in the cupboard that have a similar nap. I just applied some Sno Seal and yes, it makes the leather darker as expected, but otherwise it seems fine. I'm confident enough to give it a go on the Explorers.

EDIT2: Job done and it looks fine.

[Son of a Beach]

I used to use Sno Seal on flat leather boots, but I've changed to Nikwax. Partly because it has a cool name, but mainly because it's so much easier to use, and less messy. No warmth required to get it to soak in, and a nice applicator built into the bottle. I've now got that soft leather boots which are sort of in between suede and flat leather (is that what nubuk is?), and use the Nikwax on those also.

[johnw]

I used to use Sno Seal on flat leather boots, but I've changed to Nikwax. Partly because it has a cool name, but mainly because it's so much easier to use, and less messy. No warmth required to get it to soak in, and a nice applicator built into the bottle.

I have the both the fabric/leather Nikwax and the beeswax version (forget name), which is similar to SnoSeal. I've found that the beeswax one is almost as messy as Snoseal and still needs heat to absorb properly. The fabric/leather one (sponge applicator) soaks in immediately but the waterproofing seems to be only fairly short term on fabric once you get it wet. Is that the one you mean Nik?

My personal preference would be for SnoSeal for leather boots, and probably nubuck, despite the messiness and possible darkening. However the similar Nikwax version is also OK in my experience.

I've now got that soft leather boots which are sort of in between suede and flat leather (is that what nubuk is?)...

Yes.

[Son of a Beach]

yes, the water-based Nikwax is the one I've been using for the last few years.

[dee_legg]

Stewertp, I found it hard to gather from what you've said above whether you are aware that GTX stands for goretex?
I've got a pair of Scarpas with a goretex liner and they are definitely waterproof already, but i guess further treatment can't hurt.

[Ent]

Contents deleted by poster

[corvus]

I have Goretex lined boots( not by choice it was what suited my feet and available) I suspect that the Goretex would be good in really hot climatic conditions however in our wet often cold and at times fully immersed Tassie conditions I feel that you just treat them like any other full leather boot and "Sno-seal/Nikwax " to your hearts content
c

[dee_legg]

I agree with Corvus... My liner is great for keeping water out, but once it's in there, it's never coming out purely through the breathability of the Goretex!

[stewartp]

Stewertp, I found it hard to gather from what you've said above whether you are aware that GTX stands for goretex?

Yep, thanks

I would read up long on hard on what Scarpa say along with any other brand that uses a Gore-tex liner before covering the leather as It would not surprise me that it could work its way through the leather and block the Gore-tex pores.

Yep, I did have a good look about. Snoseal is recommended for boots with gore-tex liners, as is Aqueous Nikwax (both wax based). As in my earlier post, Scarpa recommend the Aqueous Nikwax for waterproofing my boots (with the Crosta leather with the textured side out). Interestingly I found a few sites selling the stuff who said not to use it on nubuck/suede as it will mess up the nap (which was something I was curious about re using snowseal, but trying it on my Hard Yakka boots got me over that concern)

I have Goretex lined boots( not by choice it was what suited my feet and available) I suspect that the Goretex would be good in really hot climatic conditions however in our wet often cold and at times fully immersed Tassie conditions I feel that you just treat them like any other full leather boot and "Sno-seal/Nikwax " to your hearts content
c

Yep, gore-tex lining wasn't on my list of must haves, thats for sure.

[Ent]

Contents deleted by poster

[stewartp]

I might be completely wrong here but my thinking is that the gore-tex liner in my boots is not intended to act primarily as a waterproofing medium, but instead to use its properties to take moisture away from my foot. My assumption is that it draws/wicks the water away from my foot/sock and into the leather. I waterproof my boots with snoseal, but that doesn’t soak into the whole thickness of the leather (which is 2-3mm or thereabout) – just the outside. So water in theory can’t get in from the outside as the snoseal blocks it, but there is scope for the gore-tex lining to move any moisture away from my foot/sock and into the leather on the inside of the boot. Then this is supposed to dry at night.

That is how I think it is supposed to work for my boots – I am happy to be wrong but its an idea to play with anyway.

[corvus]

Yes I think that is the theory in a perfect world however if you have a water proof layer on the outside where do you breathe from ??
Not that it really matters so long as your feet are happy in your boots.
c

[Son of a Beach]

I don't claim to fully understand how such porous fabrics work, but I don't think that these essentially 'plastic' fabrics to any wicking at all. I think they're supposed to simply allow vapour to pass through. Therefore, they're passive, rather than active. Ie, they don't draw moisture out, but allow it to pass out along with the air, as the air moves naturally.

I suspect that there's very little movement of air through the leather of boots (and even less if the leather has been sealed by whatever means), so I'm not convinced that 'breathable' fabrics against leather achieves a whole lot in terms of drying.

[stewartp]

I suspect that there's very little movement of air through the leather of boots (and even less if the leather has been sealed by whatever means), so I'm not convinced that 'breathable' fabrics against leather achieves a whole lot in terms of drying.

I'd go along with that and was just typing a very similar answer. The theory makes for pretty diagrams though!