Hydatid Disease

[Empty]

Years ago in the Blue Mountains a passing bushwalker noticed me about to drink straight from a creek and commented that I was at risk of contracting hydatid disease. At the time I thought perhaps he was overstating the risks but the seed of doubt was planted and after that I bought a Katadyn filter and also resorted to boiling most water.

I recently bought a Steripen on the store keepers advice that it "killed everything". I have since discovered this to be incorrect and in particular Steripens provide no protection against tapeworm.

I have google and googled and googled some more but cannot find any definitive advice about the prevalence of hydatid disease in Australian streams and rivers.

Does anyone know for certain?

[GPSGuided]

Read these.
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets ... fected.pdf]
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/1996/164 ... -1987-1992

The prevalence is much lower these days but is still there, especially when near livestocks. Not a bad idea to double up on water treatment techniques as none is infallible alone. Filter + Steripen would be a good combo.

Yes, clearing a hydatid cysts infested liver is one of those entertaining operations around. Lovely memories form many years ago!

[icefest]

Yes, clearing a hydatid cysts infested liver is one of those entertaining operations around. Lovely memories form many years ago!

I wouldn't have minded seeing that.
Do you remember the patients symptoms?
Full jaundice, or just pain and elevated enzymes?

[jjoz58]

This got me thinking as I have been using the Sawyer SP128 Mini Filter and it claims to "remove 7 log (99.99999%) of all bacteria and 6 log (99.9999%) of all protozoa and is a certified 0.1 micron (.1 Micro-millimeter or .1 mu) absolute filter that removes bacteria and protozoa at a higher rate than accepted EPA guidelines". Great I know it removes protozoa (5 - 100 microns) like Cryptosporidium, Giardia etc but what about these eggs? Most internet sites list the the eggs at 30 - 45mu or 30 - 45 microns, so I'm safe at least from these as well. I only have to worry about viruses now, but they aren't common in Australian water sources, supposedly.

[Swampy460]

Funny isnt it , For years people here in the Illawarra have been stopping on Maquarie Pass to collect water from the waterfall to Make home brew (beer). But they dont think that under a km upstream are farms and one with a piggery. I wonder if the fermentation kills all the nasties.
And up until a year or two ago I too have just drank from streams not thinking about the consquenses, I now have a steripen.

Swampy

[Empty]

[quote="GPSGuided"]Read these.
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets ... fected.pdf]
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/1996/164 ... tory-1987-

Thanks. There is no shortage of information like this which explain the disease and the risks but they all stop short at covering whether waterways are likely to be affected.

The contention of the person who warned me was that, even though we were in a bushy area the creek would have passed through farming lands upstream and that it was possible for an infected animal to have died in the creek or for contaminated faeces to enter the creek etc.

The advice was that only boiling provided any real guarantee of killing tapeworm cysts.

So we are still left with the question of how likely it is to find hydatids in the creeks that we encounter in most parts of Australia. Most of out bush is surrounded by farming and settled areas after all.

[GPSGuided]

I wouldn't have minded seeing that.
Do you remember the patients symptoms?
Full jaundice, or just pain and elevated enzymes?

Nothing too serious. A bit of discomfort and LFT alterations. Confirmed on imaging... Then it's "suck" like crazy city when those cysts are evacuated. All hands on deck time. LOL

[GPSGuided]

Thanks. There is no shortage of information like this which explain the disease and the risks but they all stop short at covering whether waterways are likely to be affected.
...
So we are still left with the question of how likely it is to find hydatids in the creeks that we encounter in most parts of Australia. Most of out bush is surrounded by farming and settled areas after all.

Not really relevant information but to say that there are real risks in a particular region. Treat it with care if you care about your health. A bit of a luck of the draw. Not as if you are not going to treat at 1% but treat at 50%. If in the region, just treat! There are more than just hydatid that may make you sick.

[Mark F]

If you are worried about tapeworm, hydatids etc (relatively large organisms) the use a filter. They work by mechanically blocking anything larger than the filter size. For some of these larger organisms even a paper coffee filter may work much of the time but there are no standards or guaranteed maximum pore size. The very hard shells around these organisms resist penetration by UV so steripens don't work.
For medium size organisms - bacteria - either a filter or a steripen or chemicals will usually work. I prefer Steripen or filter as I don't have to wait and I haven't added chemicals to the water.
If you are worried about very small organisms especially viruses use a Steripen for instant purification or tablets and wait. Filter pore sizes are usually not small enough to block many viruses.
If you are worried about chemicals and heavy metals then you are out of luck - find another water source.

[GPSGuided]

If you are worried about chemicals and heavy metals then you are out of luck - find another water source.

So true!

[Haematocrit]

Slight misunderstanding of the life cycle there folks. Humans can get hydatid disease by ingesting hydatid eggs. These are excreted by the definitive host (dogs or foxes). Humans (& canids) do not get hydatid disease from ingesting livestock (intermediate host) feacal material, but are at risk by ingesting raw offal from infected lifestock. All hearts, lungs and livers on every animal processed in Australian abbattoirs is inspected for hydatids.

[Haematocrit]

Funny the things that you remember. Its been 23 years since I (just) passed parasitology. Worm your dogs.

[Empty]

Funny the things that you remember. Its been 23 years since I (just) passed parasitology. Worm your dogs.

Okay, so the question is, if an infected animal died and decomposed in a stream could the cyst survive in the stream and could they be subsequently ingested by a person drinking from that stream.

This is the crux of the matter in question. In the Royal Isle NP in the Great Lakes of the USA, hydatid tapeworms are common. My question is, are tapeworms common in our waterways.

None of the australian health sites touch on this so perhaps it isn't,t a problem despite what my concerned associate said all those years ago.

Looks like this one is destined for the too hard basket.

[GPSGuided]

There's no evidence to suggest it's common hence a paucity of commentary in this regard. But given the presence of hydatid disease in a region, you are best to exercise the best practice. You may just become the case that alerts authorities to an outbreak or a contamination.

[Onestepmore]

My question is, are tapeworms common in our waterways.

No. You don't catch hydatid tapeworm from contaminated water. That's why you can't find any information about it.

Don't pat dogs that haven't been wormed that live on sheep farms and then place your fingers in your mouth!
And don't eat uncooked offal

PS there is no hydatid in Tasmania. Fullstop.

[taswegian]

Hydatids was once a major issue here (Tasmania).
There were Hydatid testing blocks around the state where dogs were quarantined.
Serious stuff.
I spoke to an old work mate at the weekend and he had three operations fairly recently.
He mentioned people can die with the disease but not from it, but it is gross.

I wasn't aware we were immune now from it here.
DPIWE don't claim its eradicated completely and we are certainly reminded not to feed dogs offal as OSM says.

[Empty]

Thanks for your response OSM but I thought you might like to be aware of this advice from the Isle Royal NP in Michigan which contradicts your understanding that you cannot get hydatids from drinking water.

"Water not obtained from the spigots at Rock Harbor or Washington Creek Campground/Windigo area must be considered contaminated with eggs of the hydatid tapeworm and bacteria and requires special care. Boil water for two minutes or filter through a 25 micron water filter. "

Lots of information on international websites about hydatids in drinking water but none for Australia which ofcourse prompted my original question.

thought you may like to know as I have read in your post that you hike overseas

[stry]

You learn something new every day !

My understanding of hytadids has been as described by OSM and haematocrit. I live in a rural area, own a dog and am very careful to minimize my chances of picking up the eggs. Nasty buggers and I don't want them !!!

I can't see how the worm can get into water and it wouldn't last long if it did. The eggs are somewhat tougher. I understand the dead animal occurrences, but have never worried too much about the possibility of something dead some way upstream in a strongly flowing stream. I have been more concerned about cattle.

I have always understood the eggs to be the big danger and this is the first reference that I have heard of the eggs being in water. How does this happen ? What is their survival time in water ? I'm not not arguing against the proposition ('cos I can't )- just very interested. Does anyone have any scientific references or knowledge on this ?

[puredingo]

Just drink what and from where you like whilst out in the bush but on your way home be sure to stop into OSM's office and pick yourself up a good all wormer tablet. Either hide it in your food or get your other half to force it down your neck whilst massaging your throat.

It may not work but your coat should get a lovely shine to it!!!

[stry]

Just drink what and from where you like whilst out in the bush but on your way home be sure to stop into OSM's office and pick yourself up a good all wormer tablet. Either hide it in your food or get your other half to force it down your neck whilst massaging your throat.

It may not work but your coat should get a lovely shine to it!!!

[GPSGuided]

New source of business for OSM!

[Onestepmore]

Just don't ask me to trim your nails while you're there!

[puredingo]

Nah, OSM...I can do my nails myself but if you wouldn't mind booking me in for my annual anal gland expressing I would be most grateful

[slparker]

Thanks for your response OSM but I thought you might like to be aware of this advice from the Isle Royal NP in Michigan which contradicts your understanding that you cannot get hydatids from drinking water.

"Water not obtained from the spigots at Rock Harbor or Washington Creek Campground/Windigo area must be considered contaminated with eggs of the hydatid tapeworm and bacteria and requires special care. Boil water for two minutes or filter through a 25 micron water filter. "

Lots of information on international websites about hydatids in drinking water but none for Australia which ofcourse prompted my original question.

thought you may like to know as I have read in your post that you hike overseas

There are difrferent species of the hydatids tapeworm. This is the form of hydatids worm in Australia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinococcus_granulosus
From the article:
'Humans should avoid handling fecal matter of canines and avoid consuming infected animals and home slaughtering animals'. Hydatids in Australia is contracted via dog faeces, not from drinking water. If a dingo poos in a stream above where you drink I guess you might get unlucky. It's not like cryptosporidium or E.coli.

I would judge the risk of hydatids in Australia from drinking water as a typhoon in a teacup. As with all suspect sources of water, a recognised sterilisation/filtering process should be used win winning water in the wild.

[Empty]

You have lost me here SLPARKER. If I google hydatid disease in either USA or Australia I get Echinococcus_ganulosus. It seems to be the same pest the world over and if is and, if it can be contracted by drinking contaminated water then clearly it is potentially a problem in Australia. I posted this question because I had received a specific warning from a bush walker who claimed to know and I wanted to see if others had any absolutely certain knowledge that may support or refute his claim

I am concluding that the forum is probably not the best place to to post questions of this nature.

[GPSGuided]

I doubt there's any formal or even half formal study on the risk of stream water in catching hydatid. Given known transmission route and the potential risk of stream contamination, one of those 'never say never' scenario, one can make one's own decision. But seriously, I'd be far more worried about catching other infectious agents and potential sequelae out of a stream than hydatid, hence the rationale to treat the water is a no brainer and consideration for hydatid hardly even come to the top.

[photohiker]

You have lost me here SLPARKER. If I google hydatid disease in either USA or Australia I get Echinococcus_ganulosus. It seems to be the same pest the world over and if is and, if it can be contracted by drinking contaminated water then clearly it is potentially a problem in Australia. I posted this question because I had received a specific warning from a bush walker who claimed to know and I wanted to see if others had any absolutely certain knowledge that may support or refute his claim

I am concluding that the forum is probably not the best place to to post questions of this nature.

The pest is definitely Echinococcus granulosus in Australia, and I suspect elsewhere. It has been an extreme problem in Africa, however I think one of the drug companies was supporting treatment there to help win the battle, have not heard recently how that is going.

I suggest you review this site for information on the method of infection of humans and other details of the resulting disease: http://ideas.health.vic.gov.au/bluebook/hydatid.asp

In short, the transmission to humans is via the definitive host, usually dogs. Perhaps in the US the definitive hosts are commonly ranging over the same territory as sheep and therefore the recommendations are different. In Australia, the recommendation is to avoid contact with dog faeces. In any case, if you have concerns, filter your water as a minimum standard.

Warm blooded animals such as sheep and humans are intermediate hosts. Dogs pick up Hydatids by eating infected offal.

The disease is not pretty because the cysts can develop in multiple locations in the body. Google image search for hydatid cysts will scare you...

Life cycle chart for your viewing pleasure: