Ultralight backpacking=fad?

[Strider]

Question is, how much further can the UL brigade continue in that quest? Has it largely bottomed until we invent air tents and virtual backpacks?

Cuben fiber was not around in the 1920s - it seemed impossible then too.

[wayno]

i think a lot of bushwalkers ahve benefited as a result of development of ultra light gear, some of the tech has spilled over into mainstraem gear to lighten the weight of gear, i've got a lot of mainstream gear thats a lot lighter than it was in previous decades.. i'm 5kgs lighter on overnight hikes without even having to go to ultralight gear... its made the mainstream gear manufacturers rethink how they go about designing gear and the large interest in ultralighting has had mainstream manufacturers start making lightweight gear to capitalise on that rising interest.
all comes down to how determined you are on saving weight, in the future weight savings are going to be less. maybe they find a way to make carbon fibre fabric thats a bit lighter, but ultralight gear today can be seriously lightweight... and savings you make in the future may literally be measured in tens of grams instead of kilos.... but designs will get refined as well with time... theres a lot of new designs out and with time the designers and users will find ways to tweak things to improve them.... theres paint on clothes come out in the fashion market recently, maybe thats another future direction.... ultimates for any gear made of a thin shell the ultimate is to have the shell as few atoms as possible in thickness and still work and still be strong enough to last.... so maybe there is technology yet to be invented or developed that can enable ultrathin usable fabrics... spider silk is one of the strongest threads out... and its now being synthesised in factories in small volumes... perhaps that will come into more mainstream use to make lighter gear...

[oyster_07]

UL is not just for gear-junkies. Sure, many UL'ers are also tech-heads, but going UL is a philosophy. It's about being minimalist and simplifying things.

[GPSGuided]

Cuben fiber was not around in the 1920s - it seemed impossible then too.

Yes, took close a century. I never said it won't continue, but when will the next wave of material advancement happen? These major advancements don't come every few years, more like every decade or so. At the present base weight of an ULer, how much reduction can we see in the next 5 years? Just curious.

[wayno]

maybe ultra lighters will start replacing their body parts with lighter materials....

[GPSGuided]

maybe ultra lighters will start replacing their body parts with lighter materials....

Good point. But I can think of few man make body parts that's lighter and better... Unfortunately. Weight loss program might be better with the bushmen of Kalahari desert being the target weight.

[wayno]

or maybe they'll just go without some body parts...

[headwerkn]

Question is, how much further can the UL brigade continue in that quest? Has it largely bottomed until we invent air tents and virtual backpacks?

Well I suppose once you're down to running naked in the bush with only a knife to aid you, then losing the love handles is your only option

Maybe it's just me being a little cynical, and ultimately it is only my opinion, but I reckon there's a point to which the pack weight vs overall comfort index flips on itself, where less weight ceases to equal greater comfort and more limited sleep/insulation system options begin to reduce comfort again.

You can drop from 20KG+ to say 5KG - 7KG and gain a huge amount of physical comfort in the form of a lighter pack to carry, without really compromising any of your shelter, sleeping and general insulation comforts ie. you'll still be happily dry and warm even if the weather turns sour. It just takes some forethought into what to take, and using suitably lightweight versions of that gear.

But below a certain point - and I'm talking super and extreme ultra lightweight weights here - surely there soon comes a point where any minor decreases in pack weight are outweighed by lack of overall comfort due to, well, ditching really-sorta-essential clothing and/or using multipurpose gear that's too compromised for any intended task. Especially if the weather falls beyond the likely narrow range that is catered adequately by such gear. I poncho tarp would be ok in a light drizzle, perhaps, but I'd hate to be hiding under one in a blizzard or monsoon.

Of course, everyone's "tipping point" will be different. I don't doubt some people are genuinely comfortable with very, very light packs.... whereas others would be utterly miserable if they had to use a sleeping bag as an evening insulator rather than a dedicated down jacket. My point being, once you've lost "most" of your (heavy) pack weight, incremental drops thereafter mightn't always be worth it. Again, only speaking for myself, but I'd feel little difference in hiking a long with a 5KG pack versus a 4KG one, but I'd definitely feel not being warm enough at night - or too hot during the day - because of limited clothing options.

Anyway... I'm waiting until they figure out a lighter option for water! All this technology and advancement in super dooper lightweight materials and 1L of the wet stuff still weighs 1KG! Maybe unicorn tears provide equal or better refreshment for less weight?

Cheers, Ben.

[Picaro]

Helium injected packs! You heard it here first folks.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

[GPSGuided]

Helium injected packs! You heard it here first folks.

But a real drag over the shoulder with the first flat. LOL

[Davidf61]

What about deydrated water? Just add water to it and.... oh wait.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Like this?

[nq111]

Like this?

even love the feathers on the label (featherweight?).

Back to the serious point though, needing to carry 10+ litres of water makes it even more important to keep the rest of the gear light.

But it means no getting away with one of those ultralight frameless backpacks. So even with a pretty good effort at a lightweight set-up (excluding pack and worn clothes i am approaching 5kg for tropical / sub-tropical). I still end up hauling 18-20kg for most overnight walks I do however (add a decent frame pack currently @ 2.4kg + 10l-14l of water - and that is sometimes stretched!). That pack weight is similar to what i carry for a week walk in Tassie or NZ, and that includes a heavy 4-season bombshelter, all the food and (in the case for NZ) some extra safety gear (harness, haul/glacier safety rope, crampons, ice axe,etc).

But at least when all the weight is water the last few kilometres back to the car is nice and light!

[headwerkn]

Helium injected packs! You heard it here first folks.

Better yet, use hydrogen. It's lighter (less molecular weight) and you could use some of it as fuel to cook dinner on. Multipurpose!

Just keep your pack away from the campfire though, or....



Cheers, Ben.

[Bubbalouie]

Funnily I think materials have a way to go yet.

Things that come to mind are:
- Laminated graphine sheets
- Woven carbon nano tube ropes and fabrics
- Aerogel insulation and padding
- Improved breathable hydrophobic coatings
- Advanced ceramics

Although even for me (not an ultralighter) I carry more weight in food and water for 5 days than anything else. Some of Phil's dehydrated water would help a lot with that though.

[icefest]

Question is, how much further can the UL brigade continue in that quest? Has it largely bottomed until we invent air tents and virtual backpacks?

I wouldn't be surprised if base weights drop by another 30% in the next 5 years.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I also wouldn't be surprised you will see lighter weights. I think we are starting to see early signs the bigger outdoor stores are starting to catch onto this.

I walk into outdoor stores and I'm beginning to see lighter bush-walking shoes starting to pop up on the walls.

[wildlight]

I luv this section but in reality it's me that needs reducing more then my pack weight. I fear that if I lighten the load too much then I'll start to automatically gain weight in response!

I hear you, brother. I'll never be skinny but definitely need to lose a fair bit. A lighter pack does make it easier to tackle more demanding walk with a lower level of fitness, however.

Double hitting of the nail, right on the head!
Huge +1 to each poster.

WildLight

[Gadgetgeek]

I think its going to just be a continuation of the trend of gear becoming better designed, lighter, and cheaper. As the high dollar gear and materials get proven, especially fabrics that right now are mainly re-purposed from other industries and are mainly in the DIY camp, those costs will put them down into the everyday market. I don't have the budget for ultralight gear of any sort, but by taking advantage of the knowledge of those out on the very edge, its easy to shave a bit of weight here and there that make sense. My kettle is still stainless steel, but by investing in an MRS micro-rocket, I have a reasonably cheap, but more importantly well proven cooking system.
While there is a lot to be said for buy once cry once, when I bought my trekking pack, I had the choice of cheap, heavy and bullet proof, or expensive, light and unknown. And that was only ten years ago. The lightweight stuff has come a long way for durability, and if I was to buy again, for the same price I could probably get a pack that was half the weight.
I see the biggest savings coming in fabrics and insulation. I'm sure we are fairly close to a synthetic down replacement that will have the advantages of both. And thinner, tougher fabrics are available, its just a matter of them hitting the mainstream. There is already a swing away from 700D cordura, and even Silnylon is getting ever closer to the entry level.
The only thing I can see improving in the cooking end is just efficiency, at the end of the day there are only so many BTUs in a can of fuel, and right now we waste most of them. So as the jetboil and reactor type systems gain acceptance in the expedition world we'll see them join the lower end of the market, making them the norm. And probably see systems that can pull even more liters of boiled water out of a tank of fuel, stretching them further and further.

I don't think that it will open up the sport much though, I think that most folks who are going to go are going to do it regardless. Its just going to add to the comfort, and safety margin, and the "lifespan" of the average trekker, the biggest factor I've heard from most people who do any sort of ultra light is just to make it easier. Be it the knees, safety margin of Kms they can hit, longer seasons or more shoulder season travel.

As far as calling it a fad, most of the big retailers and mid-level manufactures are going to try to cash in on the ultra-light coolness factor, and we will all be able to take advantage of that. Will the mainstream hold with it, or will another aspect of trekking take the fore, I don't know. I think its possible that in a couple years we will see a flood of low market ultralight gear that is entry level cheap, and crappy, which might scare the average person back to the heavy bulletproof gear. But its also possible that there is another big game changer from a technology that upends the whole thing.

[oyster_07]

The UL philosophy is one developed through experience. It is truly the case that knowledge reduces the need for more gear and specific gear.

Improvements made by the large commercial manufacturers in terms of weight will not bring more people to the outdoor pursuits. This is because manufacturers and retails will still feed off a novice's insecurities and naiivities by telling them they need all manner of superfluous items. I think we have all seen the inexperienced people with both too much gear and gear that is hugely beyond their requirements (and perhaps recognise that we once stood in their shoes).

[dancier]

Mike Clelland seems to think lightweight backpacking will overtake traditional backpacking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbfy2QWlOsk

[wayno]

you know somethings going on when Macpac known for making heavy duty packs, start putting out lightweight packs.. so many brands are expanding their lightweight range, its making an impact in the market.

[Mark F]

My view is that the three things that will limit the uptake of UL are:
Lack of knowledge
Fear
Historical inertia.

Large components of UL is knowledge, mindset and minimising the number of items in the pack rather than necessarily seeking the absolute lightest gear. For me UL allows me to continue walking and to do walks that I would most probably find impossible if carrying a 20-25kg pack.

[Tony]

Hi Mark,

My view is that the three things that will limit the uptake of UL are:
Lack of knowledge
Fear
Historical inertia.

Large components of UL is knowledge, mindset and minimising the number of items in the pack rather than necessarily seeking the absolute lightest gear. For me UL allows me to continue walking and to do walks that I would most probably find impossible if carrying a 20-25kg pack.

I could not agree more, when I first joined this forum in 2008 and started posting about lightweight gear, many forum members who practiced traditional gear walking lambasted me and told me that I was going to die if I used LW gear, at one time the site admin made me put disclaimers on my posts, some of my post on LW walking were even removed, eventually I was allowed to start a sub forum on LW gear but it was not allowed to be called LW gear, it had to be called "Gear Reduction" Forum.

Guess what, 7 years later, I still use LW gear, I have done some very difficult walking in all seasons including in the snow and I am still alive and and I have not heard of one forum member dying from using LW or UL gear, I still see many walkers in distress from having too much gear.

I am always amused when see outdoor companies try and jump on the LW bandwagon and label traditional gear LW and UL.

Tony

[wayno]

depends on what is "normal" for the time... normal in nz used to mean heavyweight gear. but that was before better quality tracks and better quality lightweight gear.
people complain about ultralight walkers , but they can look positively heavyweight compared to some of the people doing the latest popular sport, Mountain running... see it a bit in NZ, people going for records in remote places, stripped down to the minimum,, if they get injured theres no extra clothes to keep warm.... i've seen more than a few runners dodge a bullet when bad weather is around..'
Theres an event coming up in nz next year, 50 mountain marathons on 50 consecutive days, theres bound to be issues around the weather then... its virtually impossible in NZ to spend 50 days in the mountains without a few major storms....

[Gadgetgeek]

I agree, and I guess a large part of it is personal risk management. As my buddy puts it, you can carry every possibility in your pack, and get to each campsite after a full day, and have nothing left in the tank. Or cut it back to the minimums, and end each day with reserve so that you have energy to burn if needed. It all comes down to how you are likely to be able to solve your problems. That played a big part on his trek on one of the NZ bushwalks (not sure which one, but he found out later it was closed, no one thought to tell him that) He got into a situation where he was having to climb an area that had had a mudslide, and found that he was either going to fall, or needed to loose his pack. With a heavy pack, he would have needed to drop it, loosing his gear. But since he was running pretty light, he was able to toss his pack above himself, and then scramble up to it.

It could also be that UL is just a natural evolution or outcome of experience. And since with the internet we can get more experience from others than ever before, it just means that UL thinking is able to progress much faster than an individual would be able to do in their normal walking career.

[ErichFromm]

Speaking of new materials - graphite framed backpacks anyone?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/c ... 491789.stm

[wayno]

i'm picking it will be incredibly expensive, researchers have been working with it for years, if it was easy to mass produce they probably would have done so by now...
i saw a story for a carbon fibre caravan.... $150k just for a basic shell with no fit out....

[icefest]

Speaking of new materials - graphite framed backpacks anyone?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/c ... 491789.stm

Graphite will probably need to be mixed with a resin to prevent flaking.
Then it's just stronger carbon fibre.

Carbon fibre framed packs already exist. I have one.

[stry]

Speaking of new materials - graphite framed backpacks anyone?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/c ... 491789.stm

Why not ? We've had graphite fishing rods for many, many years. Long graphite fibres held together with resin.

Wonderful things to use, but a somewhat different application from a pack frame..