Removal of Stone Fire Circles

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On a recent bushwalking trip one of the party I was in made a point of scattering the stones set up in fire circles we came across.
Just wondering what this is all about and what do others make of it?

[Moondog55]

So what happens is that the next person who makes a fire makes a new circle, although I have broken up fire circles made in stupid places [ talking form a bushfire prevention POV ] it is supposed to reduce visual impact I guess

[Strider]

Good work I say.

[Walking_addict]

Kinda like leave no trace, except your person likes to erase traces left by others.

Like some people knock over cairns, even historical ones in the past.

I feel depends on location, sometimes better to have one designated place for a small comfort / cooking fire.

Our small group didn't have any campfire until the aawt, when we stayed in the odd cattlemans hut.

Got to admit, it was nice, but usually we are pretty knackered and sleeping by 1900 !

Sent from my HTC1 using tapatalk

[perfectlydark]

I think its pretty selfish and counterproductive. Just get over the fact that someone is going to light a fire there. And scattering the stones will just lead to someone reforming the circle, or worse lighting a fire in a potentially unsafe spot. Dont assume everyone in the bush thinks like you.

[Strider]

I think its pretty selfish and counterproductive. ... Dont assume everyone in the bush thinks like you.

Same could be said for those that don't tidy things up before moving on.

[Turfa]

My personal view is that if it is a commonly used campsite, and the circle is in a sensible (and safe) location, then it is best to leave the stones in place as it will encourage others to use the same spot for a fire, minimising the impact on the area.

[perfectlydark]

Of course strider. Topic on hand was firestone displacement. People that move them out of some sort of superior belief that they are more suited to bushwalk and know better than everyone else, it only adds to the 'elitist' attitude a lot of people in the hobby display, which is pathetic. If the circle is in what is used as a campsite, in a safe location honestly what good is destroying it doing?

[perfectlydark]

Same goes for cairns. Like them or not, you should have the common sense to know that not everyone in the bush is like you. For all you know the next walker is relying on track notes mentioning said cairn, you destroying it could result in them being lost /needing rescue etc. Before you jump on the "people should be better prepared" bandwagon stop and think. Ive seen more people while bushwalking that are clearly not professionals than ive seen who are obvious regulars. Your selfish attitudes can and do affect others and if a pile of rocks offends so much perhaps your in the wrong hobby.
My 2c doubt it will be popular but the cure for that is a spoon of concrete and harden up..

[MartyGwynne]

I support the removal of fire stone circles where they are in an inappropriate position. If I were to do this I would most likely bolster up the "main one" with the stones of the satellite ones to remove the temptation to rebuild it again.
Good to see some robust discussion about this subject.

[perfectlydark]

I have no problems with that at all, that is common sense

[tom_brennan]

From the NSW Confed Bushwalking Code

"Definitely don't build a ring of stones as a fireplace. This is unnecessary and unsightly. Dismantle stone rings wherever you find them."

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/~document ... 004-02.pdf

[perfectlydark]

So what is more unsightly? I tidy circle or ashes all over the place from fires built by the other 95% of bushwalkers who arent part of a club or who give 2 damns about an unoffical 'code of practice'?

[Moondog55]

While it may be "Unsightly" to some I disagree that it is unnecessary, using stones to reflect the heat back into the centre of the fire circle can help with combustion so that the wood burns cleaner, provides some protection from the wind and at the same time gives you a place to put the billy; which means you don't need to cut green wood for a dingle stick.
Although these days I usually use a hobo stove/windscreen to boil the billy except in certain fragile and threatened areas I often use twig fires to cook on and I love to use wood fires as a social aspect of bushwalking

[tom_brennan]

Of course strider. Topic on hand was firestone displacement.

Yes, and Strider was commenting that people who don't tidy up their fireplaces could be regarded as selfish.

With a bit of care, you can make it look like an area hasn't been camped in at all. Remove fire rings, scatter cold ashes widely, discard excess firewood. It may not be appropriate for every camp site, but for less frequently visited ones you should consider it. Yes, it takes a bit more effort, but it means the next people who turn up will enjoy an area that looks untouched.

Who knows, perhaps they will then make the same effort for those who come after them?

[perfectlydark]

Apologies if that was the intent of the post (I was thinking of litterers in my reply.
Mostly fair points, its only common courtesy to leave the area as you found it (or better). Still disagree on the firecircle destruction (most campsites themselves are a place to sleep and eat). Fire circles arent 'pretty' but they have a use. I agree with Moondog regarding the social aspect. theres nothing like some chatter and laughs in the flickering firelight with a boiling billy
Dont misunderstand me (sorry I get a little passionate sometimes lol!) I would never build a circle where there wasnt one already, the location of a campsite with an existing firecircle has often been the deciding factor in where to camp (and why i finally got a stove). I just do not like the moral superiority of those that feel they should decide how others should do things on their trips. I can garuntee you if I was boiling some water on a fire and someone came up to me with a lecture about how ugly the fire was and to make sure i take it down I'd be telling them to take a hike and mind their own business

[jackhinde]

where is my post???

reiterated: from an archaeologist's perspective a stone circle is indicative of post colonial fireplaces, and now and the future allow an easy ID of such when sites are excavated. Leave them be.

[GPSGuided]

IIRC of those old scouts manuals, they always had pictorial illustrations of camp fires with a ring of stones. Often used to support the pot or pan. Then for large camp fires, a big circle of stones. To mark safety boundaries?

[Scottyk]

if it is a file stove area only then yes
if fires are allowed then leave them be

[DaveNoble]

On a recent bushwalking trip one of the party I was in made a point of scattering the stones set up in fire circles we came across.
Just wondering what this is all about and what do others make of it?

Its always a good thing to do, except perhaps for very established campsites. As well as dispersing the stones, you need to hunt out any bits of foil or burnt steel cans etc from any remaining ashes and then scatter dirt, leaves, sand, mulch over the fire scar to make it look natural again.

I'm not really sure why some fire builders make the ring of stones. Its a puzzle? It makes it hard to burn long thick pieces of wood. I much prefer cooking on a fire without any stones.

In wilderness areas - it is best to try and leave no trace of your visit. Leave your fire like you leave your toileting - well hidden.

Dave

[tibboh]

All my camping is in fuelstove only areas, but I reckon a few stones would assist with stopping larger logs or pieces of wood from collapsing the fire....allows air under the fuel.
Leaving no trace in all but well established camping areas is definately the go.

[andrewa]

I agree with the "leave no trace" philosophy, however it does depend on where. If it is an obvious established campsite, then there is really no point in dispersing the stones, as others are going to camp there and build a fireplace anyway. However, if I've built the stone circle myself, then I would normally disperse it, and make it look like no one had been there when we leave.

A

[Clusterpod]

Is there room in this discussion to suggest that perhaps camp fires shouldn't be lit at all, barring emergencies?

I have been amazed about the number of fires I have seen people light across the country this summer. Sometimes in the craziest of conditions, and never, seemingly, actually necessary beyond "camping needs a fire". Which was fine when we didn't know better, or cared less. But surely with the myriad of camp cookery fuel available, fires, especially in the warmer months, only aren't just not necessary, but needlessly dangerous, destructive, polluting and wasteful?

[perfectlydark]

I would argue a campfire is less polluting than many camp stoves. Disposable gas cartidges, god knows what goes into the fuel extraction/production/distribution. If safe to do so I see no problem with a small fire. Have you seen anyone lighting a bonfire or something?

[geoskid]

Its always a good thing to do, except perhaps for very established campsites. As well as dispersing the stones, you need to hunt out any bits of foil or burnt steel cans etc from any remaining ashes and then scatter dirt, leaves, sand, mulch over the fire scar to make it look natural again.

I'm not really sure why some fire builders make the ring of stones. Its a puzzle? It makes it hard to burn long thick pieces of wood. I much prefer cooking on a fire without any stones.

In wilderness areas - it is best to try and leave no trace of your visit. Leave your fire like you leave your toileting - well hidden.

Dave

+1 from me. Let the next person feel like they are the first person there. They don't need to know what happened last night.

[Moondog55]

Couldn't agree less Clusterpod, for me a fire is an almost elemental link to my ancient hominid ancestors and I often light one simply to gaze into the coals and meditate. I won't light one if conditions are dangerous tho and I can light a fire and also leave no trace, it's a simple skill but needs time and patience to do so. At a fixed camp a fire is almost mandatory as a focal point for the group but that is outside of this discussion

[Strider]

Yes, and Strider was commenting that people who don't tidy up their fireplaces could be regarded as selfish.

With a bit of care, you can make it look like an area hasn't been camped in at all. Remove fire rings, scatter cold ashes widely, discard excess firewood. It may not be appropriate for every camp site, but for less frequently visited ones you should consider it. Yes, it takes a bit more effort, but it means the next people who turn up will enjoy an area that looks untouched.

Who knows, perhaps they will then make the same effort for those who come after them?

Yes this is exactly what I meant

[geoskid]

Couldn't agree less Clusterpod, for me a fire is an almost elemental link to my ancient hominid ancestors and I often light one simply to gaze into the coals and meditate. I won't light one if conditions are dangerous tho and I can light a fire and also leave no trace, it's a simple skill but needs time and patience to do so. At a fixed camp a fire is almost mandatory as a focal point for the group but that is outside of this discussion

Love your work Doggy.

[Scottyk]

I would argue a campfire is less polluting than many camp stoves. Disposable gas cartidges, god knows what goes into the fuel extraction/production/distribution. If safe to do so I see no problem with a small fire. Have you seen anyone lighting a bonfire or something?

This is the attitude that leads to people stripping every tree and everything on the forest floor around popular campsites.
I disagree with you and I think you are underestimating the number of people that camp in some spots and the impact they would have if they all had your attitude.

[MichaelJ]

Tangential to topic, but a long time ago I was told about a person who, as he was leaving a campsite, was in the habit of throwing a live .22 bullet into the cold ashes of the fire circle, with the intention of providing a "little surprise" for the next person to light a fire there.........an act of complete *&%$#!, but you have to assume 99.9% of people are decent.
The other thing is that some camp cooks are pretty sloppy, and when you arrive at a campsite the rocks of the circle are covered with congealed grease and melted marshmallows and scraps of fat, but I guess it's nothing that the heat of a new fire won't sterilize.
All in all I tend to use a fire circle if it's there when I arrive, and leave it when I go; if there isn't one I will usually make one and remove all evidence of it when I leave, even placing the scorched face of the rocks downwards and out of sight.