Z Pack Arc Blast

[roysta]

My 60 litre version arrived today and it looks fantastic, god, does a pack get THAT light?
2 hip pouches and a shoulder pouch and the pack is still under 450g empty.
In good time I'll give my impressions of this cuben fiber number.

[roysta]

I'll re-post this in Ultralight

[ULWalkingPhil]

Photos?

In particular the stitching on the joins on corner of pack. I purchased one of there chest pouch and the workmanship was poor, mine is coming apart and tearing. Its hardly been used and I only carried items such as a small camera, a light snack and my headspot.

Very weak. And very poor workmanship, was going to purchase one of these packs, but the quality of workmanship on the few items I purchased from them recently has turned me away from Zpacks.

[ULWalkingPhil]

A lot of you probably know how much I love Cuben, but I am not convinced on its use for backpacks, as soon you stitch or put any hole in cuben, its a major weak point.

The punishment a pack receives really tests the durability of cuben. Stitching cuben in my opinion is not the best thing to do.

[Bubbalouie]

Photos?

In particular the stitching on the joins on corner of pack. I purchased one of there chest pouch and the workmanship was poor, mine is coming apart and tearing. Its hardly been used and I only carried items such as a small camera, a light snack and my headspot.

Very weak. And very poor workmanship, was going to purchase one of these packs, but the quality of workmanship on the few items I purchased from them recently has turned me away from Zpacks.

Interesting, my other half has the chest pouch, she puts about 1kg of camera gear plus a few snacks in it. It's seen 6+ months of usage and has held up very well. Perhaps yours was made by a new employee?

Have you contacted zpacks about this? They are usually pretty good for warranties. I've never needed a warranty from them before as everything I've bought had been pretty bullet proof but most people are happy with the service in repairs and exchanges.

(Disclaimer: not affiliated with zpacks, just a happy customer)

[Bubbalouie]

Photos?

In particular the stitching on the joins on corner of pack. I purchased one of there chest pouch and the workmanship was poor, mine is coming apart and tearing. Its hardly been used and I only carried items such as a small camera, a light snack and my headspot.

Very weak. And very poor workmanship, was going to purchase one of these packs, but the quality of workmanship on the few items I purchased from them recently has turned me away from Zpacks.

Interesting, my other half has the chest pouch, she puts about 1kg of camera gear plus a few snacks in it. It's seen 6+ months of usage and has held up very well. Perhaps yours was made by a new employee?

Have you contacted zpacks about this? They are usually pretty good for warranties. I've never needed a warranty from them before as everything I've bought has been pretty bullet proof but most people are happy with the service for repairs and exchanges.

(Disclaimer: not affiliated with zpacks, just a happy customer)

[roysta]

Photos?
In particular the stitching on the joins on corner of pack. I purchased one of there chest pouch and the workmanship was poor, mine is coming apart and tearing. Its hardly been used and I only carried items such as a small camera, a light snack and my headspot.

Phil I'll load it up over the next few days and post a few photos.
It looks ok to me stitching wise as does the shoulder pouch.
You see, I have about a dozen packs in the house for a variety of situations.
I didn't buy this pack for areas where scrub's about. This is for open track/path hiking, i.e. established tracks in NZ and trails overseas.
For scrub and general Oz/NZ bush I'll go with my original Macpac Ravine (75 litres/1800g).

[ULWalkingPhil]

Photos?

In particular the stitching on the joins on corner of pack. I purchased one of there chest pouch and the workmanship was poor, mine is coming apart and tearing. Its hardly been used and I only carried items such as a small camera, a light snack and my headspot.

Very weak. And very poor workmanship, was going to purchase one of these packs, but the quality of workmanship on the few items I purchased from them recently has turned me away from Zpacks.

Interesting, my other half has the chest pouch, she puts about 1kg of camera gear plus a few snacks in it. It's seen 6+ months of usage and has held up very well. Perhaps yours was made by a new employee?

Have you contacted zpacks about this? They are usually pretty good for warranties. I've never needed a warranty from them before as everything I've bought had been pretty bullet proof but most people are happy with the service in repairs and exchanges.

(Disclaimer: not affiliated with zpacks, just a happy customer)

I just sent an email to Joe now. Problem is by the time I spend money sending mine back to him, I dont think it is worth it, hence why I had not contacted him till now. I figured I might see what he can do and maybe make sure this dont happen again, its left me with a bad taste of his products. I also dont like the shoulder pouches, place a 600ml bottle in the pouch and I cant fit anything in the mesh pouch, its way to tight.

I wouldn't dare think about placing a kilo of gear in mine, it would disintegrate.

[Bubbalouie]

I just sent an email to Joe now. Problem is by the time I spend money sending mine back to him, I dont think it is worth it, hence why I had not contacted him till now. I figured I might see what he can do and maybe make sure this dont happen again, its left me with a bad taste of his products. I also dont like the shoulder pouches, place a 600ml bottle in the pouch and I cant fit anything in the mesh pouch, its way to tight.

I wouldn't dare think about placing a kilo of gear in mine, it would disintegrate.

A few good photos showing what's happened exactly and then the general state of the pouch should be enough I expect.

Hopefully you'll get a new one sent to you.

I've been toying with getting an arc blast myself and am also very curious to see how they're stitched. I'm planning an 8 day hike for November next year and would like to get my full load below 15kg, the arc blast would go a long way towards that. I don't want to do so at the expense or reliability though.

[andrewa]

ULPhil, I've only ever bought a hexamid twin, and some raw materials from Joe, but I've made lots of rucksacks (and other gear) myself, out of variably light materials, and am about to play with some cuben.

My experience with Joe's stuff is positive, and I don't think he deserves to be "bagged" as you've done. He's out there doing some "radical stuff", and I think his gear needs to be looked at like MYO stuff.......but if you've never done MYO gear, maybe your expectations are skewed.

My thoughts are that if you MYO gear, you tend to be more cautious with its use, as you know what to expect from it, and you can also repair it easily. If you buy your gear commercially, your expectations are greater.

if I made myself a pack out of 0.34 Oz cuben, I would be exceptionally careful about putting it down, lifting it etc, but it would work for what I made it for. If I'd bought the same, would I have the same attitude towards its use?? I suspect not. I'd probably expect to use it like a pack made from 2oz plus fabric.
It's a bit like taking sick days at work if your employed, vs being self employed....you are more likely to take them if employed, and less likely if self employed. The latter is like MYO stuff. You just deal with it.

Bottom line..don't be harsh on Joe. I think he does a great job pushing the limits.

But, I agree with you that the hexamid duo looks a crap design!

A

[Strider]

There is a difference between treating as MYO, and not being fit-for-purpose.

[Bubbalouie]

There is a difference between treating as MYO, and not being fit-for-purpose.

Very true, well made UL gear does hold up if looked after properly in my experience. The definition of properly is perhaps subject to your expectations though. I own a goretex paclite jacket and one of the zpacks jackets. If I was expecting to have to move through a lot of brush I'd take the gtx jacket as the cuben-eVent fabric would likely tear, but, for anything else I definitely prefer the zpacks jacket. Others may expect each should be just as tough because both items are sold as outdoors clothing (in spite of a 70% weight difference).

I'd give Joe a chance, I've only spoken to him a few times and he's been very helpful on both occasions. One faulty unit does not necessarily constitute a bad manufacturer. Hopefully Phil is pleasantly surprised, cottage manufacturers do after all rely on forums such as this for promotion of their wares.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Joe responded to my email and will replace the faulty multi pack and will talk to the person that made the item today. He is going to personally oversea the replacement and ensure its well made. As suspected he wants the faulty item returned back to him.

I was hoping some images would have been enough, instead of me having to pay to return the item.

[wayno]

is he aware what the postage will cost you? if not i'd make him aware, this shouldnt cost you any extra given its their poor workmanship... you could point out you're writing up your experience on a bushwalking forum...

[ULWalkingPhil]

I am very careful with my gear and look after them, as soon I received the multi pack I knew something was not right, it was put together poorly.
I noticed the stitching coming apart on the top corner and the cuben started to tear after first use. I would have had no more than 500grams of weight inside the pouch and it was a short day hike.

The front shoulder pouch Joe informed are not designed for water bottles even though a lot of people do use them for carrying water, he told me there suppose to only carry items such as camera, gps etc, small items, not water.

[ULWalkingPhil]

is he aware what the postage will cost you? if not i'd make him aware, this shouldnt cost you any extra given its their poor workmanship... you could point out you're writing up your experience on a bushwalking forum...

He knows I am from Australia. I included my address in the email I sent, unless he missed it. I replied back asking if photos would be sufficient. I don't want to spend anymore money on this pouch.

[wayno]

given a lot of people do carry water in those pockets, he should put instructions in the pockets about any weight limitations they have. sounds like he's designing stuff with how he wants to use it in mind rather than how most people will use it..

[ULWalkingPhil]

Yes, i was under impression they where designed to carry water. Its an ideal location to carry some spare water or if your in an area with lots of water, you could get away with just a couple of 500 ml bottles in the shoulder pouch. To be honest I have not used mine thus far, i tried a test fit when I received them on my Kumo pack around the house and backyard, works with a 500-600ml water bottle, but you have to be careful when bending over as the bottles can full out.

But what put me of them slightly was I could not fit my GPS into the front mesh pocket with a water bottle in the pouch. Was lucky to fit a lighter let alone a GPS. I thought at the time that was strange. Now I know there not designed to work this way, I probably would not have purchased them.

[forest]

I have two of those shoulder pouches on my arc blast. Carried two 600ml bottles on Larapinta along with lip balm, small suncream, lighter, knife and a few other nicknacks. No issues. Perfect for bottles, never had one fall out. Trying to fit a bottle and gps in the front is a pretty big ask. Not designed for that and the pictures online wouldn't lead me to think it would work. The mesh is just for small things especially if you have the pouch jammed to capacity with a bottle. If the bottles fall out a small bungie cord around the neck of the bottle would sort any issues quick smart.

The arc blast is IMO the best track walking pack I have had the pleasure to own.

Phil just talk to Joe. I've said it before, he's one of the best to deal with.
If you have to send your chest pack back wouldn't it nearly fit in anenvelope, that would be pretty cheap.

[icefest]

The front shoulder pouch Joe informed are not designed for water bottles even though a lot of people do use them for carrying water, he told me there suppose to only carry items such as camera, gps etc, small items, not water.

Hrmph, I'll have to redesign my packing order...

[Bubbalouie]

Phil just talk to Joe. I've said it before, he's one of the best to deal with.
If you have to send your chest pack back wouldn't it nearly fit in anenvelope, that would be pretty cheap.

I'd expect it to be pretty cheap too, folded in half a chest pack should fit in a standard 20cm padded envelope.

I can understand Phil's frustration too though (why spend more again). Joe certainly sounds like he's coming to the party and you can't fault his first response, it seems to me to be very reasonable so far.

[Bubbalouie]

The front shoulder pouch Joe informed are not designed for water bottles even though a lot of people do use them for carrying water, he told me there suppose to only carry items such as camera, gps etc, small items, not water.

Hrmph, I'll have to redesign my packing order...

I've used a 'biner and a bit of bungee cord with platypus bottles in the past. It worked a treat. The bungee cord loop was to stop the bottom flopping about as I walked.

Not as convenient as a pouch, but it works and weighs maybe 7g.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I asked Joe about the shoulder pouch. He told me he cant see any problems with using them for carrying water. Its just that he did not design them to carry water. Hence why the mesh pouch is not as useable.

[Onestepmore]

Try the Mountain Laurel Designs water bottle holders. They have a bungee cord at the top so a 600 ml plastic water bottle can't fall out. They have a mesh front, but not a separate additional pocket. The fabric is almost the same as the Gossamer Gear packs, so they are a good match.
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/sh ... ucts_id=71

[roysta]

I think we're getting a clear message here.
Joe listens and reacts accordingly.
I like his approach and for me it's been an interesting move in heading to cuben fiber.
But, it is horses for courses and the items should be used in the best manner for the occasion.
I can see these packs being used for summiting purposes, the ice axe loops are there.
Saving 900g or so is very appealing when you're going up.

[icefest]

I can see these packs being used for summiting purposes, the ice axe loops are there.

It'll be interesting when the mountaineering industry start using cuben (excluding terra nova).

[wayno]

they have started making them, but cuben isnt as abrasion resistant as nylon, so what you may see is hybrid packs

http://sietovanderheide.blogspot.co.nz/ ... dwear.html

[gbedford]

My experience of Joe and Z Packs has been excellent.
I have a Hexamid Solo Plus with a zip entrance. Actually I modified this by adding extra material to the vestibule. It has been great so far.
I have some custom pockets that Joe made and then I attached to a couple of rucksacks. they are made of the hybrid material (as with the Arc Blast). While I haven't used them for weeks of walking they have all suffered punishment on ski tours and walking through untracked scrub. They are still going strong.
The workmanship and service has been superb even though conducted at a distance.
It is hard buying/ ordering/ custom making at a distance. You can't touch examine the product. It is often hard to communicate your ideas. I have been buying from overseas since 1974. Not everything works out perfectly as you would have it. Life is like that.
I like what I have read by people here. They seem to appreciate this. I don't get involved in much of the discussion in this forum but I have received very good service from Joe and would like to support him and what he is attempting.

[Strider]

Can we open a new forum section specifically for bitching about manufacturers, please?

[Mark F]

Wayno - I think the link you put up has it wrong about the pack containing cuben. The fabric looks like a Dimension-Polyant fabric. Even Mountain Hardware describe it as "HardWear™ X-Ply Ripstop". You often see it mentioned with a codes like VX-21 - different weights and face fabrics. It is an excellent fabric but not cuben.