Pyramid tent build

[Moondog55]

Definitely 2 layers and after 20 years very little wear on mine either, perhaps in this model they used lighter Cordura

[andrewa]

Redback,

The issue with the Zpacks hexamid (twin) is that the back wall sits 4-6" above the ground. I'm sure that with fiddling around and a shorter pole, you can pitch it lower, but having had it on Bogong a few weekends ago in v windy wet weather, I was glad I didn't end up sleeping in it (we decamped to Michell's Hut) as I would have been damp/wet from the horizontal rain. I think the design shown on http://tramplite.com/2013/10/myog-cuben ... elter.html is a significant improvement.

Also, the fact that the "beak"doesn't come down to ground practically prob doesnt amount to much. Personally I'd like a "verandah" type covering to the front of the tent ( like a Hilleberg Nallo GT with the front open), so I can store gear, cook etc outside the tent, and not get rained on....maybe my Zpacks cuben tarp will be a better option....

A


I was also confused, he said he didn't like how the Zpacks Hexamid didn't offer a lot of weather protection. Then he went and built one. It looks like the beak doesn't even extend down as far as the hexamid. Still a very nice looking

[Davidf61]

Anyone thought about a "verandah", for lack of a better term for a mid? The only thing that bothers me about pyramids is the close it up when raining issue.

I'm thinking of a piece of cuben, separate from the mid itself and used when required. Connect to centre pole of mid, down say a metre? either side of the door
opening side to the corner pegs, and then out to whatever distance you require past the bottom edge of the mid. Either to a lightweight pole/stick, longish line to the ground or tie it off to a tree.

Would weigh say 100gms? in the lightest cuben, one peg and some cordage. I'm trying to make a paper model as that Sketchup program seems to have laid a few bugs in my puter...

[Orion]

My original setup was just a rectangular piece of plastic with some guylines that I hoped to never use. It could never achieve "bombproof mode", as David calls it, and would require more effort to pitch and more hassle getting in and out of it. The 0.33 oz/yd² Cuben sounds like it is only somewhat more reliable than my plastic painter's tarp but 100 times more expensive. So I thought that with some effort I could have a very lightweight shelter that pitched easily, could handle a windy storm, have minimal bug netting, a door for easy access, and wouldn't shred or tear the first time I used it.

185$
http://www.zpacks.com/shelter/hexamid_pocket.shtml
It weighs less than 100g with guy lines. For that weight you will not get anything tougher/stronger.

I thought you were a SXUL kind of guy, and wanted the absolute lightest. :S

Am I a SXUL guy? Only with the right person. Ha ha.

Seriously, I've never had a base weight even in the so-called SUL zone (nevermind XUL), except on really short, fair weather trips. I have to work to get under 4.5 kg.

That zpacks tent doesn't look too bombproof to me. It's open so I might get wet in a windy storm above tree line. I want to be able to fully close the tent sometimes. Zpacks says that the material is "strong enough for an occasional use shelter, but may not be the best choice for every day use". At $185 it would cost about 100 times as much as my plastic painter's sheet but provide only a limited degree of additional function and reliability.

Also, the total weight (shelter, groundsheet, 6 stakes) is 238g, more than twice the weight of the shelter itself, although why they suggest pairing a relatively heavy groundsheet with it is something worth wondering about. As an emergency shelter their pocket Hexamid has merit (provided you can afford it) and I'm impressed with zpacks for even offering such an extreme item. It's not for me though unless the price drops by a factor of at least 10.

[Orion]

Anyone thought about a "verandah", for lack of a better term for a mid? The only thing that bothers me about pyramids is the close it up when raining issue.

I'm thinking of a piece of cuben, separate from the mid itself and used when required. Connect to centre pole of mid, down say a metre? either side of the door
opening side to the corner pegs, and then out to whatever distance you require past the bottom edge of the mid. Either to a lightweight pole/stick, longish line to the ground or tie it off to a tree.

Would weigh say 100gms? in the lightest cuben, one peg and some cordage. I'm trying to make a paper model as that Sketchup program seems to have laid a few bugs in my puter...

That sounds like it might work. At some point though what you really want is a different tent.

In terms of ventilation I think it should be possible to add an awning of sorts above the zipper, stiffened with whipper snipper cord. With a two-way zipper you could open just the top, under the awning. My Hilleberg Nallo is set up like this. It doesn't give you that much of a view but it improves ventilation. And of course you can always pitch a 'mid to sit up off the ground.

[simonm]

Anyone thought about a "verandah", for lack of a better term for a mid? The only thing that bothers me about pyramids is the close it up when raining issue.

I'm thinking of a piece of cuben, separate from the mid itself and used when required. Connect to centre pole of mid, down say a metre? either side of the door
opening side to the corner pegs, and then out to whatever distance you require past the bottom edge of the mid. Either to a lightweight pole/stick, longish line to the ground or tie it off to a tree.

Would weigh say 100gms? in the lightest cuben, one peg and some cordage. I'm trying to make a paper model as that Sketchup program seems to have laid a few bugs in my puter...

Hey David,

Bearpaw designs has done this http://www.bearpawwd.com/custom/custom_images/cshangrila3vest_1.jpg.

[Davidf61]

Thanks for that Simonm.

I was thinking slightly shorter one side [ the door that's closed ] and a smidge further out, but I think that would be quick and easy enough, as well as light if made of cuben.
Something you could stuff in a pocket somewhere and maybe use if you were going to be rained in for a length of time. Probably less than 100 gms. That painter drop sheet material is suprisingly tough too.

[Redback]

Redback,

The issue with the Zpacks hexamid (twin) is that the back wall sits 4-6" above the ground. I'm sure that with fiddling around and a shorter pole, you can pitch it lower, but having had it on Bogong a few weekends ago in v windy wet weather, I was glad I didn't end up sleeping in it (we decamped to Michell's Hut) as I would have been damp/wet from the horizontal rain. I think the design shown on http://tramplite.com/2013/10/myog-cuben ... elter.html is a significant improvement.

Ahh I see. very clever. Do you know by chance if the way he did the seams was the same way as Zpacks do them?

Also, my cuben arrived in the mail today. Exciting times ahead.

[andrewa]

Zpacks seams are just taped, I think.

A

[icefest]

Zpacks seams are just taped, I think.

A

I (now) have a cuben trailstar, and that's just taped on the joins. I can take some images if you want.
It's MLD though.

[Redback]

Zpacks seams are just taped, I think.

A

I (now) have a cuben trailstar, and that's just taped on the joins. I can take some images if you want.
It's MLD though.

I would greatly appreciate a close up on the seams if you could find the time. Cheers.

[andrewa]

I'll dig out my hexamid this weekend, and have a look

I'm also about to get some new cuben....I have some 0.5oz already ( like....had it for 4 months plus) which is aimed at making a "verandah type vestibule" for my hexamid, but hopefully simonm's slightly heavier cuben will arrive tomorrow.....which is destined for some roll top bags, as I already have a roll of double sided tape from Joe at Zpacks.

A

[icefest]

Here you are redback:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vueql8gk7gok5 ... .32.59.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3zqdiw95ar3f ... .33.12.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1yi4zzu8nuzu ... .33.17.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2vah2stzb92g ... .33.32.jpg
I'm still uploading more but I'm tired and need to get up at 4:45 tomorrow.
I'll post them tomorrow.

[Orion]

Ahh I see. very clever. Do you know by chance if the way he did the seams was the same way as Zpacks do them?

It sounds like Colin sewed flat felled seams and then bonded a strip of Cuben over top, kind of like finishing the seam with homemade Cuben tape.
Zpacks also stitches their seams (they don't say how) and finishes them with Cuben tape.

"All the seams are triple stitched and taped, and the tie outs are bonded." -- zpacks website

So basically the same thing.
Using tape is less labor intensive. But by making his own, Colin could customize the width of his homemade tape.

[Mark F]

I have had my Hexamid+ with beak in an extreme thunderstorm with very strong winds and heavy hail (50+ mm totally covering the ground after the storm). I knew it was likely to storm so I pitched it to the ground and fully guyed it out. It was nervous couple of hours inside but it handled it without damage or water getting inside. I doubt a painters tarp would see out such conditions.

For those interested in a porch, one way to do it is to put in an opening zip for the door (like a rain jacket) and have an equivalent zip attached to a triangular section of fabric that zips to either side of the door zip with the apex of the triangular section at the top of the door. Prop out on walking poles or sticks and guy out.

[andrewa]

Now that I've played successfully with cuben for my roll top bag, I'm going to get out and make the vestibule/verandah for my hexamid. It is so easy to put together with the tape.

For those doing tie outs , this link is useful

http://www.suluk46.com/RandD%20-%20RD20 ... Tests.html

A

[Orion]

I doubt a painters tarp would see out such conditions.

I agree with you! That's why I'm building a Cuben tent.

How well do you suppose a 0.33 oz/yd² Cuben Pocket Hexamid would have fared in that storm?

[simonm]

Well my sil-nylon and other gear is ordered.

[Nuts]

Ah, these topics are getting a bit intermingled, good to see what comes of these projects
Glue tape is great for small projects but personally I wouldn't use tape for joining large flat Cuben sheets in a fly to each other.
Tape backed strips (bought or home made.. heat cut) makes more sense.

Join like this:

strip _________________
cuben <______ ________>
strip _________________

One each side, sealed and done!

[Nuts]

One other thing I've wondered is why Dyneema Gridstop is used so frequently for the top cap and for other reinforcements. It's pretty heavy material, as Colin mentions, and I think it's tougher than is needed for the application. There are lighter coated nylons that would work just as well. Or am I missing something important?

Agreed, I used Dyneema X as I had it for another project. Anything that heavy isn't really necessary. If I was doing another one i'd go much lighter, probably just the same material, maybe an inner 'cone' of nylon backed cuben for abrasion. (if building with cuben strips) If you extend/leave the cuben strips longer than the panels.. so they go over the peak, the apex is in fact at least already 4 layers thick already (or more depending on panel numbers).

[Orion]

Glue tape is great for small projects but personally I wouldn't use tape for joining large flat Cuben sheets in a fly to each other.

Why not?

My intention is to join main seams like this:

______________ ___________(Cuben)
______________ ___________(glue tape)
_________________________ (Cuben)

Do you expect my seams to fail at some point?

[Nuts]

No, I doubt they will fail other things being equal (ie the glued area is similar) I did see some joins done this way then sealed with mylar tape (which kinda adds unnecessary weight/expense). If it's all sealed then I can't see why it wouldn't be as strong... I just like the other way better- and handling strips rather than sheets could be easier..It all being quite an easy process till you start getting things stuck to an elbow or passing cat

[Mark F]

A Zpacks pocket tarp in 0.34oz only saves 25 grams over a regular hexamid. I would choose the .51oz cuben. I think that the 0.34 cuben may allow puncturing by hail due to the lower dyneema count. The hail I experienced was about 10 - 15 mm diameter - I wouldn't like it too much bigger. I would be also concerned about the tie outs in strong winds unless they had quite large bonded reinforcing patches oriented at 45 degrees to the tarp material.

Both the seams should work. My own choice is:

__________________ Cuben Tape 1 sided added after to reinforce the seam
<____________ Cuben
_____ Double sided tape with stitching - 3 tack zigzag like the sail makers use to stop peal and creep
____________> Cuben

I am also working on a design which I will build in 0.51 cuben. The main design issue that remains is the foot end where I would like to use short cf rods like the Akto to minimise the length while the whole of the interior remains usable. I have some 10mm tape from Extrem Textiles and will buy some 25mm tape from ZPacks to make one sided tape and to bond reinforcing patches.

[Orion]

I just like the other way better- and handling strips rather than sheets could be easier..It all being quite an easy process till you start getting things stuck to an elbow or passing cat

So it's ease of construction that motivates your method? I can appreciate that. Making a mistake while sewing is generally easy to correct, but with the tape it's more complicated -- cutting out the error and making a patch. I hope I don't have to do that. Zpacks sews and then tapes. Is this because it's easier for them? I was guessing that it's to make the product more durable, that maybe tape-only seams can creep eventually. But what do I know? Not very much!

[Orion]

A Zpacks pocket tarp in 0.34oz only saves 25 grams over a regular hexamid.

Wow, that's it? I wonder how many orders they get for that.

Both the seams should work. My own choice is:

__________________ Cuben Tape 1 sided added after to reinforce the seam
<____________ Cuben
_____ Double sided tape with stitching - 3 tack zigzag like the sail makers use to stop peal and creep
____________> Cuben

Is this what the sail makers do, minus the final tape for waterproofing/reinforcing?

By the way, where is your avatar photo from? It looks a bit like my home range.

[Redback]

Here you are redback:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vueql8gk7gok5 ... .32.59.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3zqdiw95ar3f ... .33.12.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1yi4zzu8nuzu ... .33.17.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2vah2stzb92g ... .33.32.jpg
I'm still uploading more but I'm tired and need to get up at 4:45 tomorrow.
I'll post them tomorrow.

Thanks for the pictures. Much appreciated.

[Nuts]

I just like the other way better- and handling strips rather than sheets could be easier..It all being quite an easy process till you start getting things stuck to an elbow or passing cat

So it's ease of construction that motivates your method? I can appreciate that. Making a mistake while sewing is generally easy to correct, but with the tape it's more complicated -- cutting out the error and making a patch. I hope I don't have to do that. Zpacks sews and then tapes. Is this because it's easier for them? I was guessing that it's to make the product more durable, that maybe tape-only seams can creep eventually. But what do I know? Not very much!

Ease of construction, I was all set to sew as well (as tape) but as soon as I tried to pull a taped join apart (and given that other manufacturers don't sew the seams) I just didn't sew.

Also appeared to be a very strong way to finish the peak, run these multiple tape strips/one sided tape over the peak (it actually forms at least eight layers at the apex given the seams are taped inside and out). Really- next time I would probably just extend the tapes in a loop at the tie out points as well, put them them through a tri-glide, run under the hem and glue the strips back inside the fly to form a 'tie out' at each corner.. and glue a reinforcement patch over the area, stitch through for good measure.. So the pre-cut tape/strip is continuous from the tie out up over the peak..
hmmm, without pics maybe it's quickly confusing, trying to explain.. and even then, it's just 'what i'd do' anyway

[Moondog55]

Been following the thread with much interest.
Seeing as I have the old Megamid this thread has made me think of retro fitting a biggish porch over the zip. What are peoples thoughts about size and height above ground.

[Nuts]

I like this zip in porch moondog, might give some ideas: http://www.bearpawwd.com/custom/custom_ ... vest_2.jpg

[icefest]

Here is the rest:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zra2c96esmngh ... .33.46.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zrl9o29huqzl ... .33.53.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uc11918ppskbq ... .33.56.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sghej4yda3x3r ... .34.09.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2e7a7w23gj32r ... .34.36.jpg