Packing question

[the_camera_poser]

I've got a question for all of you who use single compartment packs. I've only ever used dual compartment packs, and am interested in picking up a new pack, which only has one compartment. My question is this- how do you go about packing your tent in the bottom of a single compartment bag, and then get it out in the rain without having to pull the whole pack liner out? If you pack it on the outside, don't you worry about it getting ripped or damaged in scrub?

Thanks all!

[photohiker]

If the tent is the first thing you need at the end of a day's hiking, why would you want to pack it at the bottom of your pack?

[Ent]

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[the_camera_poser]

If the tent is the first thing you need at the end of a day's hiking, why would you want to pack it at the bottom of your pack?

Well, it's the heaviest thing, so theoretically it should go on the bottom, to keep your centre of gravity low.

Brett- messy.....

[johnw]

I usually do similar to Brett with separate dry bags (though not always). Regardless of that, the tent is always an issue for the reasons that you outlined. However I don't think it's mandatory that the heavi-est thing be at the bottom. Depending on its packed shape etc you may be able to load it a little higher and at the back where it's more accessible. IMHO a lot of packing issues can really only be resolved through experimentation with your own gear, as everyone has different stuff. The guidelines I've read about packing are good, and I try to follow them as far as practicable, but I consider them guidelines rather than strict rules. If you can get most of the heavier items low, evenly weighted laterally, and to the rear is probably a reasonable objective I think. My 2 cents worth only, I'm sure you'll get plenty of other ideas on this.

[alliecat]

If the tent is the first thing you need at the end of a day's hiking, why would you want to pack it at the bottom of your pack?

Well, it's the heaviest thing, so theoretically it should go on the bottom, to keep your centre of gravity low.

Umm, nope. That's not what you want to do. The heaviest things (actually, the most dense) should be packed as close as possible to your spine, and up between your shoulder blades or even higher. That moves your total center of gravity the least from where it normally is when you dont have a pack on. Packing a heavy weight low down exerts too big a moment arm on your lower spine and hips - not good.

My tent goes at the top of my pack, outside the pack liner so I can get it out and set it up in the pouring rain without any water getting into my pack.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[the_camera_poser]

Alliecat- I could have sworn the rule is heaviest on bottom, to keep your centre of gravity around your navel. Very interesting!

I always used to pack my tent on the top, below the top flap and above the closed-off throat, to provide a bit more rain protectection, now that I think of it. Sleeping bag in the bottom, then food/clothes, then tent, and mat on top. But then, my pack always felt top-heavy.

[the_camera_poser]

Umm, nope. That's not what you want to do. The heaviest things (actually, the most dense) should be packed as close as possible to your spine, and up between your shoulder blades or even higher. That moves your total center of gravity the least from where it normally is when you dont have a pack on. Packing a heavy weight low down exerts too big a moment arm on your lower spine and hips - not good.

My tent goes at the top of my pack, outside the pack liner so I can get it out and set it up in the pouring rain without any water getting into my pack.

Cheers,
Alliecat

Uhh- 30 seconds of googling confirms why my back has felt so akward for all those years.........

DOH!

[Tony]

Below is part of a paper on Physiological, Biomechanical and Medical Aspects of Soldier load Carriage by Joseph Knapik

This may help in deciding how to pack your pack but going lightweight reduces the strain on the body and makes how to decide to pack a pack a bit easier.

Tony

[/quote]

[johnw]

If the tent is the first thing you need at the end of a day's hiking, why would you want to pack it at the bottom of your pack?

Well, it's the heaviest thing, so theoretically it should go on the bottom, to keep your centre of gravity low.

Umm, nope. That's not what you want to do. The heaviest things (actually, the most dense) should be packed as close as possible to your spine, and up between your shoulder blades or even higher. That moves your total center of gravity the least from where it normally is when you dont have a pack on. Packing a heavy weight low down exerts too big a moment arm on your lower spine and hips - not good.

My tent goes at the top of my pack, outside the pack liner so I can get it out and set it up in the pouring rain without any water getting into my pack.

Actually I agree with Alliecat, whose explanation and rationale is much better than mine. I think keeping the centre of gravity close to your spine is the key. My only concern is loading really heavy stuff above the shoulders. Would this not cause similar problems to having them right at the bottom? I'm fairly short (about 170cm) and slightly built, so possibilty of "toppling over" would concern me.

p.s. I just saw Tony's post. Need to absorb that info, which looks interesting.

[photohiker]

If the tent is the first thing you need at the end of a day's hiking, why would you want to pack it at the bottom of your pack?

Well, it's the heaviest thing

And there was I thinking you took a decent camera with you.

[the_camera_poser]

If the tent is the first thing you need at the end of a day's hiking, why would you want to pack it at the bottom of your pack?

Well, it's the heaviest thing

And there was I thinking you took a decent camera with you.

Actually, I haven't figured in camera gear into all of this calculation. But it's not on the back anyhow, it's around the front.

Have you seen the film footage of Peter Dombrovskis climbing up a waterfall with an external frame pack loaded with 40 kilos of large-format photographic equipment? That's a man and a half!

[Ent]

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[alliecat]

Actually I agree with Alliecat, whose explanation and rationale is much better than mine. I think keeping the centre of gravity close to your spine is the key. My only concern is loading really heavy stuff above the shoulders. Would this not cause similar problems to having them right at the bottom? I'm fairly short (about 170cm) and slightly built, so possibilty of "toppling over" would concern me.

p.s. I just saw Tony's post. Need to absorb that info, which looks interesting.

I can't find the web page that had some great info about this - I'll keep looking. But what I recall is that we cope better with our center of gravity being raised (or lowered) than we do with it moving forwards or backwards. Think of porters who carry tons of gear on their heads. Also, heavy weights up higher is better than heavy weights down low because when they are down low they exert a twisting force (torque) on the lower spine. Up high, the weight is the same but the torque is less. Our lower spines don't like torque. I understand the concern about feeling top heavy, but I think that's easier to adjust to than "back heavy".

Cheers,
Alliecat

[bushrunner]

Hi everyone. I thought I would take this opportunity to make my first contribution. I have been lurking for some months but have had little to say which needed to be said. I will introduce myself on the appropriate board at some point.

Wearing weight closer to your spine and higher up is stuff which is taught very early on in Army training. Having the weight closer to your body reduces the leverage of the pack. Also, having it higher up makes it easier to align the weight over the center of your spine so that it applies a direct downward force thus enabling you to keep your spine aligned. If you wear the weight lower, in order to have the weight above your center you would need to lean forward and curve your spine considerably, which takes your spine out of alignment thus putting far too much pressure on the lower back.

In the infantry you are also instructed to build your pack rearwards meaning that if you add things to the outside of your pack you would add them to the rear of the pack rather than the sides. This makes the pack narrower, facilitating easier and quieter movement through dense scrub. For bushwalkers who generally walk in more open terrain, I would suggest doing the opposite. If you affix things to the outside of your pack, affix them to the sides and not the back. This will make your pack wider but will ensure that the weight is closer to your spine.

Following this rule will make your walks far easier on your body. You will be less sore afterwards, fresher at the end of a day and you will be able to carry more weight as it is easier to carry a well distributed pack of slightly greater weight than it is to carry a poorly distributed pack of a lighter weight.

Happy walking all.

[the_camera_poser]

That's very useful- thankyou Bushrunner. Welcome to the board!

[adventurescape]

Going upwards with the pack is good, but side to side leverage is considerable and can cause fatigue in lower back (quadratus lomborum) especially if you are tall. Trekking poles can help hugely to stabilise your upper body over uneven ground or if you have to start stepping sideways or down big steps. Trekking poles help big time in general if used properly IMO.

Sam