Overland Track Lecture.

[Nuts]

Nah, they're parallel sapling under that mess, about as slippery as it gets! Cordwood is big stuff split into bits, none down there.
Your red head friend is standing in the gutter... The best and quickest route is straight through, a walking pole or stick helps.

Your lecture isn't too shocking Phil, that sort of misinformation happens a lot closer to the coal front.

[matagi]

Does anyone know if any official communication has been made with the organisation referred to in the OP? Because I find that degree of misinformation concerning.
[Moderator edit for context]

[Nuts]

Yes, someone should probably point out the incorrect info. It's not really clear was it just a free shop based discussion or a tour or something?
Wouldn't be too stressed- I'm sure those that then go to book should be caught by the system, their expectations corrected.

Ideally, unprepared private walkers should be caught at Waterfall Valley by the 'friendly net'- hut warden advising them to turn back..

[Moderator edit]

[matagi]

Ideally, unprepared private walkers should be caught at Waterfall Valley by the 'friendly net'- hut warden advising them to turn back..

Do the park rangers have the authority to police whether or not someone is sufficiently prepared and turn them back if they are not? Or can they just advise and it is up to the individual whether or not they follow that advice?

[Nuts]

No, just advise (so long as they have a pass) that i'm aware of. I guess they have to take personal responsibility after that, lets hope they get into that habit while planning their walk.

[DaveNoble]

Frog Flats - Was long regarded as the worst part of the track in terms of deep mud and bogs. It was common for walkers to sink up to their waist. Major trackwork went in around 1980. I can remember meeting Ossie Ellis (who at the time owned Pencil Pine Lodge) at Pine Valley on a trip in May 1980. He and an offsider had just done a spell of track-work at Frog Flats. He used the term "Corduroy" for what they had done. A common technique in those days had been to place cut up logs on the track - but only one layer of logs. It didn't take long for these logs to be kicked into the mud by the passage of walkers. To solve the deep mud problem at Frog Flats - Ossie had come up with the technique of using several layers of cording - all nailed and wired together. he also used local timber - and the local timber he used was pine - because it would not rot very easily. So - that trackwork has been in place a long time - over 30 years. I think this is pretty good! If people find the track a bit muddy now - then that is nothing compared to what the track used to be like before the work was done.

At that time - there was no chicken wire used in any place on the track. Myself and my walking companion, the "General" had not long before been on a long Fiordland Walk in NZ - and we both remarked to Ossie about how chicken wire was used there on tracks to reduce the chance of slipping on logs. Ossie seemed to think to may be a good idea. Anyway - a few years later I noticed it being used on the Overland Track.

Also - back in the 70's - the buttongrass sections south of Windemere were long bogs - but one could jump from tussock to tussock if you weren't too tired. A long section of track here was re-routed through a forest section. One of the worst section was between Kiaora and DuCane Huts - it was very boggy all the way. Now - that section of track has been hardened and is very good indeed.

The first long sections of duckboard went in during the mid 70's between Narcissus and Mt Olympus where the track crosses the river, and north of Narcissus. This was financed with Federal RED scheme money thanks to Gough Whitlam.

The stats quoted above - I wonder if they are for all the track or just the section to Narcissus?

Dave

[Moderator edit]

[Nuts]

There really isn't a lot of the original cording left. The few times i helped with it was digging out and replacing, sometimes (for the rare bit any good) dug up, benched and re-used. It was never really that good, even the stuff laid more recently (was it a Hahn project, i seem to remember a sign asking to carry a bit of cord with you )- that was replaced near Lk Will t/o several years ago with double planking. The double planking is a good idea, fast and probably cheapish.
The walk up from frog Flats was improved in the early 00's, it's a shame that the saplings work at the bottom weren't included iv'e fallen there a few times and everyone goes bush around it given that they might still have dry boots by there...

seemed that more track work actually happened.. was funded... pre-permit days......

[Moderator edit]

[Chris]

Frog Flats - back in the 70's - the buttongrass sections south of Windemere were long bogs - but one could jump from tussock to tussock if you weren't too tired. Dave

Thanks for that fascinating bit of trackwork history Dave. One of my major memories of my only (so far) OLT walk on December 1976 was of precisely that section. Not fun! Then there were the only 2 little stretches of fine weather, conveniently at Windermere and Kia Ora - absolutely superb! Also not having my first view of Cradle until 5 years later - far too much wet stuff in the way in '76. Still a wonderful experience which I hope to have again some time, maybe even in kinder conditions.

Now back to the real point - regardless of how much info people walking the OLT get after this pseudo info session, whether before leaving home or when they get to WFV, surely there should be some attempt from this forum to give appropriate feedback to the sources of misinformation. I did wonder whether this

PM sent

indicated that it was going to happen. It is surely unfair to potential visitors and bad PR for Tassie if the only response to Phil's original post is this extensive discussion.

[Moderator edit]

[Nuts]

Some of those points, while not really correct are probably best left as standard advice:

You tell people that waterproof boots are needed, they will be less likely to dodge bogs in their runners.
You tell them that the heaters 'cut off' above 10c and they bring warmer clothing options and have that in mind before arriving.
There is nothing overly 'unsafe' in that advice, perhaps a little inconvenient?

(and while I don't think it's necessarily phil's job, or fair to have too many expectations, i'm sure it should be part of someones 'job')

[Ent]

While mud can be rather messy to say the least, but it will not seriously injure you compared to a fall of the suspended boardwalk covered in slim and no anti-slip finish. As mentioned on our walk last week the most dangerous falls were on boardwalk. The slip factor was so bad that many people had voted with their feet and boardwalk dodged. Chicken-wire helps immensely in solving the slip factor. My favourite man-made surface is the asphalt covered boardwalk around the Cirque. Love to know the reason why this approach was not continued with but as mentioned Parks has used just about every conceivable type of track hardening with not apparent logic.

The OLT is still an undertaking that needs due care and prior training for the newbie or unfit. I tremble when I hear or read it explained as easy or impossibly hard. For the prepared it is a great walk, but for the ill-prepared it can be a very uncomfortable experience. Pleasing on this trip I noticed nearly everyone we meet was well equipped and prepared so the message is getting out.

I can not push hard enough that the weather can make a huge difference to what to expect and a single walk will not be enough to convey what can happen weather-wise. On our trip sunglasses, suncreen and sun hat plus a non waterproof camera were just luggage to lug but on other trips they are almost mandatory.

Regards

[stepbystep]

My favourite man-made surface is the asphalt covered boardwalk around the Cirque. Love to know the reason why this approach was not continued with but as mentioned Parks has used just about every conceivable type of track hardening with not apparent logic.

Hmmmm, because that's called a road..... The asphalt sections are the most anti-bushwalk sections of the walk imo. Do you want asphalt poured through the walls too? The best track is one that blends with the natural environment and this is why the areas around Barn and Cradle are sooooo sterile.

[Chris]

Some of those points, while not really correct are probably best left as standard advice:
You tell people that waterproof boots are needed, they will be less likely to dodge bogs in their runners.
You tell them that the heaters 'cut off' above 10c and they bring warmer clothing options.
There is nothing overly 'unsafe' in that advice, perhaps a little inconvenient?

Yes, inconvenient, but also very bad PR.
Then there is

Majority of the track is timber planked.
There is someone at the start of walk checking your gear and banning you if they think you don't have the right gear.

Potentially dangerous. I'm a bit twitchy about this after an encounter with a South Korean woman setting out to walk the OLT while we were getting a bit of shelter to eat lunch on the way down from Marion's in April. We had already experienced snow and hail, and it was far too windy to stay on top. This woman was wearing what appeared to be patent leather boots with shiny soles and interesting ? decorative large holes in the upper parts of the boots. She repeatedly asked us for reassurance about the route, and was ready to head off into the scrub a couple of times. A group going in the same direction said they would keep an eye out for her. I would love to know whether she completed the walk.

No idea what info she had in advance of course, but surely our forum has some responsibility to correct misinformation like this when we are made aware of it.

[tastrax]

(and while I don't think it's necessarily phil's job, or fair to have too many expectations, i'm sure it should be part of someones 'job')

I was flat out at work on Friday and whilst this type of work is not part of my regular Parks work I do try and pass it on to the appropriate staff for followup. In this case I was also able to find the company involved pretty easily via a web search. I have sent them an email (from my private email) suggesting they might like to make a comment on this forum.

[Strider]

Not sure if its the same speaker, but looks like there is another OLT lecture next Tuesday night.

https://www.facebook.com/events/195024700549944/

[ULWalkingPhil]

(and while I don't think it's necessarily phil's job, or fair to have too many expectations, i'm sure it should be part of someones 'job')

I was flat out at work on Friday and whilst this type of work is not part of my regular Parks work I do try and pass it on to the appropriate staff for followup. In this case I was also able to find the company involved pretty easily via a web search. I have sent them an email (from my private email) suggesting they might like to make a comment on this forum.

Thanks tastrax, I was contemplating in contacting them myself and seeing if they would like to comment. Will be interesting to see if they do comment.

I was not sure if I should post who they where on the forums. A quick online search should find them quick enough.

Frankly, I was disappointed with the info provided on the night. I don't think enough research went into the lecture. A quick glance at the Tasmanian Parks website on the Overland Track would have answered and corrected some of the info that was given on the night, I trust and hope that those participating on the night do check online and conduct there own research before traversing the Overland Track.

One thing I will give them, is the young lady did on many occasions mentioned the conditions can change rapidly and to insure you have appropriate gear and to always carry a tent.

They where handing out some papers on the walk, for some reason I missed out in getting a copy, it would have been interesting to have had a read of the info sheet handed out.







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[matagi]

A quick look at their website will show they presented an OLT info night on Thursday June 13th, although I can find no reference to a similar event next Tuesday.

[corvus]

Who is it then ?? don't keep us in the Dark please

[Strider]

No need to assume. A quick look at their website will show they presented an OLT info night on Thursday June 13th, although I can find no reference to a similar event next Tuesday.

Woops the previous link was for 2011

Here is the next session, on June 27, 2013.

https://www.facebook.com/events/5227753 ... ext=create

[Taurë-rana]

It's very sad that people would give a lecture about something they are obviously not qualified to talk about. What else are they telling people that is wrong?

[Moderator edit]

[Chris]

(and while I don't think it's necessarily phil's job, or fair to have too many expectations, i'm sure it should be part of someones 'job')

I was flat out at work on Friday and whilst this type of work is not part of my regular Parks work I do try and pass it on to the appropriate staff for followup. In this case I was also able to find the company involved pretty easily via a web search. I have sent them an email (from my private email) suggesting they might like to make a comment on this forum.

Thanks tt, I thought you would have followed up. Probably best someone from Parks dealt with it, but can't really expect it as you're on the forum in your private capacity.

[Moderator edit]

[Ent]

My favourite man-made surface is the asphalt covered boardwalk around the Cirque. Love to know the reason why this approach was not continued with but as mentioned Parks has used just about every conceivable type of track hardening with not apparent logic.

Hmmmm, because that's called a road..... The asphalt sections are the most anti-bushwalk sections of the walk imo. Do you want asphalt poured through the walls too? The best track is one that blends with the natural environment and this is why the areas around Barn and Cradle are sooooo sterile.

Curious comments but rather familiar tone. I suppose that the most natural is no boardwalk but then again the damage done in that area by feet is significant and given the length of time that the boardwalk has been down it still has not recovered. I thought board walking main aim was to protect against soil erosion? Is it not better to have people walking on it than avoiding it?

Given that nearly all of the OLT is quite visible from space via Bing bit hard to claim any track work is not disruptive to the vista. Then again maybe Parks can hire an artist to camouflage it as part of the percentage of public money allocated to the arts for capital works? Oh you can colour asphalt if that is important.

Sustainability and safety is my focus in infrastructure but then again people spend a fortune on cosmetics so maybe so should Parks?

Still curious if it is economically better than surfacing with chicken-wire? Certainty appears to last longer and less a trip hazard than chicken-wire falling to pieces.

Cheers

[tasadam]

I have just spend a great deal of time and effort cleaning this topic out and bring it back on topic.
It is far too important an issue to leave in the state it was in, with far too many replies off topic and against the spirit of the rules.

A reminder that anyone on this forum, if they feel fit, are requested to please USE the report feature to bring posts and topics to the attention of the moderator group, and avoid topics digressing as far as this one did.

A few parting comments that have been removed, with feedback from me.

Never thought that dirty photo (pun intended) would have caused such a furor - within a tea cup but nevertheless.

Not a storm in a teacup, but can have the efffect of driving people away or turning them off the forum (see below).

Wow - this thread has gone down hill. Do you guys caught up in the banter go bushwalking out of choice, or is it part of your anger management plans. Hardly a glowing endorsement for this forum.

This from a fairly new member of the forum, and someone new to Tasmania. The sentiments are sadly not only his.

I have met a few people who, because of 'discussions' like this, have given up on finding useful information here and no longer visit which is a pity, because there is a wealth of knowledge among the forum users.

There have been people leave this forum because they got sick of the banter, bickering, arguing like the example I have just cleaned out of this topic.

Now back to the topic. Due to the recent history of this topic, all replies are requested to be on topic please. It is actually in the rules, rule 21 =

Keep replies relevant to the subject of the initial post. If you wish to change the subject, consider posting a new topic separately, and linking to it from the old topic.

[Nuts]

Just to add to one of my earlier posts.. I didn't mean to say that the old corduroy technique was generally 'no good' just that there are far better, more productive methods these days. And some of these old timers (like Ozzie) did far more than any compensation value (I don't know, he probably wouldn't have been paid much, if at all?)

Much of the old stuff was split (in fact I was under the impression the term 'corduroy' referred to split king billy and its distinct grain.. but whatever) and once the ground under it started to work away at one edge the wired together individual planks would continue to loosen, wires break and the whole lot fall apart (as has been seen).

As Brett put it 'no apparent logic'? It all seems to have been determined by whomever was in control of the purse strings... ie the local ranger. Since before my time there (and still) the same ranger has overseen track construction. I believe his preferred technique (may in fact be adopted statewide.. not sure.. tastrax may know) is double planking. I'm not sure why the tar boards aren't used, they are robust, been there a long time and despite the road walk impression- do a good job.

In short, trackwork will never be easy in exposed alpine areas but good people have been involved and it would be safe to assume that many techniques have been discussed if not tried (anyone notice the three big pavers 'test' between the horse track and Kitchen hut). I was a bit shocked on my first walk through the park, wading through waste deep mud. I think everyone leaves with a idealistic perception despite what they read.. might be the reason many people say the same thing- they find the track harder than expected. May be a good learning experience long term if they intend to tackle a more difficult walk. I'm sure if the whole track Was boardwalk then one single puddle would be equally deflating.

[tasadam]

I think everyone leaves with a idealistic perception despite what they read..

Or, perhaps, despite what they hear at an "information evening"...

[Nuts]

Yes, it would help if the info was closer to correct to start with .. sorry.. quaffing about things only vaguely related I guess..

(I still think that the OLT is a place for the learning curve) (perhaps at odds with tourism and the fact that for some.. many?.. it may be their only 'expedition')

[Taurë-rana]

I think everyone leaves with a idealistic perception despite what they read.. might be the reason many people say the same thing- they find the track harder than expected.

Interesting, I found it easier than expected, but it was very dry, and nice and warm for the first few days. I certainly met one or two people who had no idea of what they were in for.

On another note, the heaters cut out at 10 degrees? (I remember they said something about not working above a certain temperature). It's currently that temperature in my house! So I have thermals, fleeces and a beanie on.

[Nuts]

Hi Taurë-rana (i have email alerts this time in case the natives stir again )

Yes, 'many'. Just an observation.
No, the heaters don't cut out at 10c, the gas heaters are on a timer. The signage says that they shouldn't be re-lit if the hut temp is over 10c.
It's a good point- able to manage with extra clothing/ should bring extra clothing even in summer.

[Ent]

The hut heaters are on a timer with New Pelion on what seems a random time from ten to thirty minutes. Windermere appears to be either on reduced output or jets clogged. Waterfall Valley was operating well. Big issue with hut heaters is walkers covering them up with everything from underwear to gaiters so not much chance of getting much warmth.

Bert Nichols had gone from wood to coal. Kia Ora and Echo Point are coal. So when trekking at those huts best to carry fire starters and clean them out before lighting. Most walkers are good and leave a bit of kindling but one unmentionable at Kia Ora used it all up attempting to burn cans!

Often neglected kit is a headlamp and spare batteries. Bert Nichols is particularly dark.

Of the assumptions made by a few is assuming toilet paper and sleeping mats exist. They do not. Best to assume no shelter and heaters as it can be cramped in the huts and heaters not working.

Yes Nuts I noticed the concrete slabs you mentioned. Very weird but as mentioned the track has just about any type of boardwalk.

I do admire the stone paving "bridges" and they must have required some heavy lifting.

Worrying is slimy suspended boardwalks. I appreciated my poles. The camping platforms are downright dangerous when soaked. I wonder how many people come a cropper destroying their plans.

Biggest issue I have seen is people hanging sleeping gear off overloaded packs. A wet sleeping bag is not a thing of joy. Best advice is be ultra careful about keeping things dry.

I would not mind hearing the lecture the OP mentioned. Hopefully the message has got through to the lecturer. One thing I have noticed is things change a fair bit in the two years between my walks.

[Nuts]

Advice about huts, heaters really should be secondary to getting the point across about self-sufficiency.
We almost never use the huts, Iv'e never really understood why people get so uptight about 'facilities'. Some of the grumps and rolling arguments that travel the track would be amusing if not so ironically 'sad'.

[stry]

Advice about huts, heaters really should be secondary to getting the point across about self-sufficiency.
We almost never use the huts, Iv'e never really understood why people get so uptight about 'facilities'.

Agree wholeheartedly. The heaters are perhaps more trouble than they are worth.

Must admit that I do like huts though, particularly in evil weather.