From the Ground Up III

[the_camera_poser]

Ok all- here's the evolution of my shopping list, which has now blossomed into a full-scale purchasing expedition. How did those pioneers get by without all this stuff.

PLEASE feel free to make comment on any/all of my choices. Also, I'll mark the stuff I was thinking I'd have to import from the US with a *- if you've seen tis around here could you let me know.

I've agonized over tents, sleeping bags, mats and so on, have gone and tested a few out, and come up with the following NEW AND REVISED list. Tents have been the biggest pain in the rear- trying to find a tent that will fit a restless 5 yo, a man with a 66cm wide chest and a woman who demands her fair share of the floor has been a real challenge. I've looked into Colemans (one's too small, the other is still on the possible list), Wilderness Equipment's First Arrow and Cirque (too small and too heavy, respectively), REI's Mountain 3 tent (too small), the various offerings by Black Hawk (too small/ too heavy), a Kelty 4 man tent (3 season- I'd be a bit worried about weather like this morning's), Mountain Hardware's Lightpath 3, etc etc etc etc. ARGH.... I really liked the look of these norweigan tents- by Bergan's, but no one seems to sell the 4 man version I'd want, outside of the EU.

Anyhow, here it goes: (bold has been edited since the original post)

-Tent: Hilleberg Nallo 4 GT w/ foot print (I guess there is a reason that it is so dear- it's the only one that works for us!)*
-Adult Sleeping Bags: 2 Mountain Hardwear Switch Long Sleeping Bag* (20f, synthetic)- these have this awesome zip-out sleeve that turns them from a mummy into a rectangular bag. Too cool. I'll have to check if you can zip them together.
-Child's Bag: Mountain Designs Bag (just picked it up actually)
-Pacific Outdoors Women's Ether Thermo Mat 6 x2* (for the girls, lighter than the downmats, and not quite so hot. I played with a downmat, and it was too hot IMHO)
-Pacific Outdoors Ether Thermo Mat 6* (for Moby Dick)
-Wilderness Equipment Mountain Expedition Pack (Large, also for Moby Dick) w/ liner
-Vango or Berghaus 45-55l Pack for the wife w/ liner

Now to the sundries:

-Folding Coleman Trowel (I poods are cool, but cost effective? I'm sick of using my garden trowel anyhow- it ends up sticking out of the webbing on the back of the pack and makes me look, well....you know....anal)
-a second el-cheapo Trangia knock-off from Allgoods- two stoves are better than one, esp. when cooking for two hungry women)
-Sigg Fuel Canister (1 litre)
-REC 3 First aid Kit
-Blister Kit
-Sea-to-Summit Dry Trash Sack* (I know I don't need this, but how cool is it? I love it!)
-Orikaso Folding Dish x3
-GSI Polycarbonate Cutlery Set x3
-Sea-to-Summit 20l Folding Sink

PLEASE, comment on any or all of this. I am a very experienced bushwalker, but I've always been a adherent of the "if I don't own it I'll do with out it" sect, which is probably not safe for hiking in Tassie, with a 5 yo. I'm pretty bombproof, but others aren't. Thus, the 40 degree bag, the 25 year old rucksack, the Jackeroo self-inflating mats and the can of spam with crushed-flat bread must go into retirement, along with the $29.95 Oztrail tent I've hiked with for the last 10 years. No more enamel plates and coffee cups (well, maybe the coffee cup will stay), no more garden trowel for the toilet (I think the wife doesn't approve of her garden trowel being used in this way anyhow.... go figure). Also, we tossed out all of cheap saucepans when we moved, and I'm told the stainless steel cookware doesn't not enter a backpack, period. So anyhow, I'm a complete newbie in the high-tech way of hiking.

[geoffmallo]

hi the_camera_poser

I think you'd probably be very happy with the Hilleberg but I have recently been using a Bibler (Black Diamond) bombshelter which I have been very happy with. It breathes very well even in very damp and warm conditions. Probably is cheaper (I was looking at Hilleberg's when I got the bombshelter). It's under 4kg and goes even lighter if you put carbon fibre poles in it!

Also regarding mats we've had a great experience with the far cheaper Pacific Outdoors thermo 6 mats. See a brief reivew at http://mycampgear.com/2008/10/03/review ... eeping-mat. The exped mats just seemed too expensive. I've since used the Pacific Outdoors mats on long extended trips and continue to be very happy. IMHO you don't need a pump with a synthethic mat. They just add weight.

Cheers
Geoff

[the_camera_poser]

Thank you Geoff! Excellent!

As for the Bibler- I did look at them, but I really liked the look of the vestibule on the Hilleberg GT- that extra long vestibule would come in handy with a 5 yo. I'll have another look at the Bibler though.

I agree that the Exped mats are outrageous. Thank you for the link- I had looked at those mats, then decided to go with Downmats, but then decided downmats were overkill and went to the lower Exped product, while forgetting all about the Pacific Outdoors mats. Thank you!

[corvus]

Just had feedback from a trekking company owner that his failure rate with Exped mats (100 nights use) was 6 out of ten and the Swiss Maker wont return his emails re the "lifetime " warranty so caveat emptor.
C

[johnw]

-Pacific Outdoors Women's Ether Thermo Mat 6 x2*
-Pacific Outdoors Ether Thermo Mat 6* (for Moby Dick)

I think you should be able to get these locally. I bought mine in Sydney and have seen them stocked in shops here. Sea to Summit are the Australian distributor for Pacific Outdoor Equipment so maybe contact them for a dealer in Tassie near you? (they may need to order them)

http://www.seatosummit.com.au/brands.php

Do you really need two stoves? Especially if they're both Trangia style kits that's a lot of extra weight/bulk to carry.

[the_camera_poser]

LOL- no- I really don't need two stoves, but we'll be cooking for three. You're right though- a bit of overkill.

That's good about PO stuff being available here. Thanks!

[the_camera_poser]

Just had feedback from a trekking company owner that his failure rate with Exped mats (100 nights use) was 6 out of ten and the Swiss Maker wont return his emails re the "lifetime " warranty so caveat emptor.
C

OK- those Pacific Outdoors mats are sounding better and better. That's pretty slack for a company that's charging that much!

[Nuts]

..

[the_camera_poser]

So which one would work the best when it was flat?

[geoffmallo]

So which one would work the best when it was flat?

I'm not sure - but the Pacific Outdoors come with a repair kit standard not as an accessory. Some seam grip is worth it.

[the_camera_poser]

My Jackaroo cheapie went flat on me in Victoria- not comfy at all, especially when sleeping on the floor of a hut.

[Nuts]

..

[the_camera_poser]

Holy smoke- I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but you all are saying that all of those inflating/self-inflating mats are prone to problems? Crap! Maybe I need to look at closed-cell foam.

[Nuts]

..

[the_camera_poser]

Nuts- what tents to you use?

[Nuts]

..

[Son of a Beach]

LOL- no- I really don't need two stoves, but we'll be cooking for three. You're right though- a bit of overkill.

That's good about PO stuff being available here. Thanks!

Note that I cook for 5 or 6 with a single large Trangia. I just bring an extra large pot (and/or wok) that will fit on the Trangia with the pot stand folded out instead of in. I also do the same using one pot for rice/potato/etc, and the other pot for the main meal ingredients, so fill both Trangia pots for a single meal, and it feeds plenty of people.

[the_camera_poser]

Ok, now thanks to budgetary realism and Taswaterfall's patient help (not to mention everyone else's), here's the THIRD installment:

-Tent: Coleman Phad X3 (if it self-destructs, who cares, it's CHEAP! Also, it is the only tent up for tassie conditions short of a Bombshelter, Cirque or Nallo 4 that would comfortably fit us three. I can buy 5 Phads for the price of any of those other tents.)
-Adult Sleeping Bags: Mont Extreme and Mont Super Synthetic Bags
-Child's Bag: Mountain Designs Bag (just picked it up actually)
-Pacific Outdoors Women's Ether Thermo Mat 6 x2* (for the girls, lighter than the downmats, and not quite so hot. I played with a downmat, and it was too hot IMHO)
-Pacific Outdoors Ether Thermo Mat 6* (for Moby Dick)
-Wilderness Equipment Karijini Pack (Large, also for Moby Dick) w/ liner
-Current el-cheapo Jackaroo Pack for the wife until it self-destructs

Now to the sundries:

-I poods are cool- we really need one.
-Sigg Fuel Canister (1 litre)
-REC 3 First aid Kit
-Blister Kit
-GSI Polycarbonate Cutlery Set x3

Now we're starting to get affordable! All in the range of $1500 Aus, down from a start of like $2700+ Aus. I've had to go with a three-season tent, but I really wont be using it in winter, and while I know Tassie can throw some wicked surprises in the way of weather, this tent has gotten rave reviews from all over the world, including plenty of accounts of it stanting up to near-hurricane force winds and downpours. If it fails, we spend the night in a hut, and I'm out $200.

Anyhow, thank you again for all the guidance- see- I really am paying attention. Though a second stove would be good IMHO, I do agree that I don't want to carry the ruddy thing.

[geoffmallo]

If you really want a second stove make a simple pop can alcohol stove. At under 30g you can afford to carry it!

[the_camera_poser]

Very good point Geoff- I've found some really simple desins on the net.

[geoffmallo]

I've just made the mini zen chimney stove on http://zenstoves.net/ChimneyStove.htm (the one from the red bull can)

I haven't tested it in real world conditions yet but so far it boils water in the backyard! I've noted it works far better with a pot stand rather than as a low pressure side burner. Probably partly because I'm using a small MSR titan pot.

[Ent]

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[Nuts]

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[Ent]

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[corvus]

I had a problem with a WE pack,contacted the distributor STS who in turn forwarded my complaint to the founder/owner of WE who personally took my complaint on board and rectified the main problem to my satisfaction.
I have had less success with Wigwam Ultimate socks with a pair failing within the two year warranty period which were replaced with reluctance by the distributor.
Swiss Army Knife had a blade snap on my mini and had it replaced no questions .
Zippo lighter kept their promise of lifetime warranty by replacing the 35 year old broken part no questions.
Optimus Explorer Stove broken part replaced with the comment I had been fiddling(had not it failed first trip brass moulding broke been perfect since) thanks to to the retailer.
So if you have a problem with faulty gear complain complain complain and don't accept no for an answer.
c

[the_camera_poser]

I'm some instances our lives could depend on this gear. I think chronic complaints are merited!

[Ent]

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[the_camera_poser]

The Saga Continues........

Here's the updated list, after MANY MANY hours of painstaking researxch, and many questions on this forum...... Bold is for new developments.


-Tent: Coleman Exponent Phad (Similar to the Nallo, 3+ season construction, $200 Aus, 3.8 kg) (already purchased)
-Sleeping Bags: 3 Montbell UL Super Stretch Down Hugger #2 (25f bag- the bottom baffle closes off for little people) (one for each of us), and POSSIBLY a #1 for the wife (15F)
-Pacific Outdoors Women's Ether Thermo Mat 6 x2* (for the girls)
-Pacific Outdoors Ether Thermo Mat 6* (for Moby Dick)
-Sea-to-Summit Reactor Liners x3

-Wilderness Equipment Karijini for me (Medium)
-Wilderness Equipment Karijini OR Echo for Wife (Small)

Now to the sundries:

-Folding Coleman Trowel (I poods are cool, but cost effective? I'm sick of using my garden trowel anyhow- it ends up sticking out of the webbing on the back of the pack and makes me look, well....you know....anal)
-Kovea Butane Stove
-Tatonka Cookset
-Sea-to-Summit Dry Trash Sack* (I know I don't need this, but how cool is it? I love it!)
-Orikaso Folding Dish x3
-Polycarbonate Cutlery Set x3
-Sea-to-Summit 20l Folding Sink
-Pack bath towel x1, three small towels
-two cadet-style nylon ponchos

All feedback/input/comments/rotten tomatos welcome!

[Ent]

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[the_camera_poser]

Well, the Coleman trowel is a wire-handle job. Looks like blisters to me. I'll have another look.

I've been interested in opinions re the orisako stuff. A nice cheap plastic plate can be good too...

As for the plastic cutlery- I have to buy three sets, so anything over polycarb is out for now I fear. But I might go with some cheap metal stuff if my gear doesn't weigh in too much. I've got it down to like 9kg for the wife, inc. pack, and 13kg for me, before food, so I'm right at that "bugger that's heavy" threshhold.

How does your titanium cup work keeping drinks warm? Do they cool off quickly?