Bushfire and synthetic clothing

[McWade]

Whilst walking or biking in the warmer months (mostly anywhere from Perth to Esperance in WA so the warmer months might be from October to April) one of the things I do periodically is reevalute my position and plan a route for escaping a fire approaching from any given direction. I have a look at what makeshift shelter is around, water sources, etc.

Some things I not not clear on, but would like to have a plan for, 1) when to ditch the pack 2) what to take with me (carrying an addtional small pack with essesntials adds weight but might be a good idea) 2) which items of clothing to keep and which to ditch.

I'm thinking whack on the wool thermals and get rid of the synthetics (apart from whatever is in footwear). Wool garments are probably a good thing to have on hand rather than all synthetics. Several books and guides I've read on the topic suggest a covering of mud or wet sand if no natural fiber garments are on hand.

Of course the best thing to do is avoid fire altogether in the first place but this is sometimes simply not possible. I've placed this in Equipment but feel free to move it to Discussion if it belongs there.

Does anyone have any experience with this? What is your fire plan? What gear might some of us not be carrying which we perhaps should when in warm dry areas?

[Strider]

No need to carry an additional small pack. Dump the majority of your gear and just keep in the pack those items you deem necessary.

I would ditch the pack at the first sign of it slowing me down (straight away most likely!)

[madmacca]

My fire plan:
* Head downhill (fire moves SIGNIFICANTLY faster uphill than down)
* Find a gully - even if it is dry, it will be cooler, less smokey, and more likely to find some physical barrier you can shelter behind

Never, ever, ditch your water. Wet clothing is a significantly greater barrier to radiant heat than dry clothing.

[tsangpo]

Wombat holes have been used before to escape some pretty big fires.

The safest place is in the black (burnt ground) but be careful for ash more than a couple of cm deep.

[tastrax]

.... and if it does look like the fire is going to catch you (and there is no escape available) then don't be afraid to throw a few matches down yourself to create some burnt ground. Fires can move extremely fast with some wind behind them!

[Moondog55]

*. Wet clothing is a significantly greater barrier to radiant heat than dry clothing.

NO it isn't
It boils and scalds you; keep your clothes as dry as practicable, carry a disposable smoke mask they are only a few dollars each
If you are worried ( and we all should be ) I would carry an aluminised all-weather blanket as a radiant barrier or take a dedicated radiant barrier suit and wear Nomex or a wool Nomex blend ( I keep a Nomex flight suit and balaclava for just this purpose) leather boots and leather gloves

Radiant heat WILL kill you

[Moondog55]

Clothing to block radiant heat should be loose and baggy to allow for cooling air flow and to allow body heat to escape, just look at how firefighters dress.
Nomex T-shirt and boxer shorts with a boiler suit over the top ( personally I prefer the 2-piece suit but you may not ) surplus flight suits in second and third generation Nomex are about $100- each First generation Nomex flight suits were $25- at Aussie disposals last year. A new 4th generation Rural 1-piece will set you back about $700- and the 2-pc suit about a grand retail. First rule of surviving wildfire Be somewhere else if this isn't possible do not panic and do the best you can. Get the local book and follow it

[McWade]

Thanks for the info all. Some serious food for thought.

Moondog, I'll definitely pick up some smoke masks. I've been having a search around on Nomex flight suits but the stockists I've come across do not list the weight of the garments. Is this heavy stuff? How much does your two piece suit weigh? Are the new gen versions significantly lighter than the older? Just trying to weigh up my options.

On an extended walk or bike in hot dry forested areas such as much of south west WA it is simply not possible to get an update on weather forecasts, not to mention fire warnings and alerts, in some cases for days on end. Many people seem to carry synthetic garments only, with perhaps the exception of a wool tshirt or thermals. I'm thinking the extra weight may be worth the insurance.

I recently tore a big hole in a Marmot Precip jacket being clumsy. I kept it for making patches. I did a little test of how easily it melts against radiant heat sources around the house. Of course I knew it would melt easily, but actually seeing it is scary...

[Moondog55]

It depends what you call heavy, a summer weight Australian Airforce Gen #1Nomex flight suit weighs about a kilo for a size small and they go all the way up to XL
My scales are broken or I'd weigh mine for you XL ( actually a 43inch chest extra tall ) but about 1 3/4 kilos??
There are winter weight suits too which are much heavier. I don't carry this stuff on my back, it is for the car kit, I simply do not walk in high risk areas at high risk times anymore but a HD foil blanket should be part of my kit
My 2 piece suit isn't suitable for any sort of walking it really needs the wide braces to hold them up and about 3 kilos maybe a touch more as the weight of the gloves and neck shielded rural helmet needs to be considered, I know they were loose and strong but exactly how heavy I cannot say, I may have a #1 Nomex in 43 tall if you want it.

[McWade]

Thanks for the info Moondog. I don't think I walk in high risk areas at high risk times either, but still... I'll be doing the Cape to Cape in early December. Last November there was a large fire in the area that started as a controlled burn earlier in the year that got out of hand. Part of the track was burnt out. This is a very rare event in that particular area. Thankfully, nobody was hurt.

[slparker]

Are you seriously considering taking a nomex suit just in case there's a fire?

[McWade]

Nope, not remotely considering it. I'm not familiar with Nomex because I've never had a reason to be. Was interested in how much it weighed. I am considering having natural fiber options on hand in the warmer months, rather than all synthetics that have a very low melting point.

The point I was making in my last post was that fire can and does arise even when not in a high risk area at a high risk time.

[slparker]

Leaves you with wool, cotton o silk I suppose. Chlorofibre is safe in a fire but too warm in summer. Have fun on the cape to cape, it's a great walk, no way I'd do in summer though.

[Moondog55]

The weight issue was my reason for thinking about the HD foil blanket. I do often carry leather gloves ( and I still have my Nomex gloves form my time in the reserve ) for scrub bashing and my summer boots are leather anyway. The important thing is the smoke mask and the weight of those is minimal

[McWade]

Splarker, I always almost walk in a wool shirt. Might pack some cotton pants for walks in warmer months. This cape to cape trip is just an example. I often walk in warmer months. I grew up camping, biking and walking in the Pilbara. If one ruled out doing those things on warm days there, they may as well forget it altogether as opportunities would be scarce indeed. Warmer months here in SW Aus, to my mind, is anything outside June July and August. I'll be doing the cape to cape in mid December. Days can be hot at that time of year, but can also be quite cool. Long term mean average for December in Cape Lewin are max 21.8 and min 15.8, Cape Naturaliste slightly higher. If there is a warm spell I'll walk in mornings and late afternoon/evenings. Good thing is that sunrise is very early and sunset very late. Pitching the tarp or tent (or soon to arrive tarptent notch perhaps) at 7pm would still leave plenty of daylight time to brew up. During the warm of the afternoon is a good time to read or snooze in the shade or swim or a spot of fishing. I wouldn't do the cape to cape in summer proper. Feb would be out of the question.

Moondog, yep I'll be carrying a smoke mask from now on as I can't see a reason not to - cheap, small, light. In the past I've thought I'd use my buff headsock thing for smoke protection. A mask is a much better idea.

[Moondog55]

I like the masks with the large exhalation valve

Similar to these

http://www.maximumsafety.com.au/swine-f ... 152549.htm

But of course check with whom-ever you purchase from that they are rated for bushfire smoke filtering. Because of the need for ventilation and radiant heat protection a loose woollen shirt will be much better than long johns. Somewhere on this forum is a link I posted some years ago to to a suit designed here in Australia to provide protection made from building foil I'll see if I can find it.

[Moondog55]

Solartran

http://www.solartran.com.au/radiant-hea ... ection.htm

[slparker]

I was fully prepared to snigger at this... but it looks like it might serve as a space blanket as well. I reckon the cape - to cape would be the last walk where I would worry about burning to death as the sea is often pretty close (from memory) but this suit looks highly applicable to inland walks in summer, or even just the car if you live in the bush

[McWade]

Thanks again for the input guys. This is really an amazing site/forum. I've come across some great tips just browsing that I'd never have thought of. It's always been my experience that the kind of people I meet out there are cool people, even if some are a bit 'out there'. Pleased to see that it transitions well to the web.

Moondog, those masks look like the ticket.

Splarker, I am not in the least concerned about burning to death on the Cape to Cape. As you say, close to the ocean with loads of outs etc. As I said earlier, it is just an example of how fires can and will flare up even in when not in a high risk area at a high risk time. I am much more concerned about inland forests. The South West is full timber towns that have been caught unawares over the years. As we speak (type?) there will be spot fires here and there in that part of the world. Long range forecasts can be way off the mark, especially during the shoulder seasons, when wind direction and intensity is less predictable, and I don't have access to updates.

My original question was about the use of the typical synthetics most people who get out there use (which are obviously used for good reason) and possible alternatives/extras considering fire hazard in dry hot forrested areas (this need not mean summer). I am by no means paranoid about it. I think it is something we should all consider, given we live (or spend time) in bush fire prone regions. Also, being burnt to death would suck the *&%$#! pipe, for sure, but being severely burnt and having to deal would suck badly too. A mask and some lightish cotton workpants may not be such a bad idea, even when biking through the Darling scarp close to town. I like to travel light in all modes, (if only to compensate for the wife's shoe, handbag and makeup 'needs' when travelling) but am constantly amazed by what some people fail to pack. I was walking recently on the Bib track, albeit relatively close to to a highway but a good 30 minutes from civilization by car and in hilly terrain, when I came across a prime example. A bloke walking solo had a cut his leg on a sharp solid branch of some scrub and was sitting trying to do something about it. It was not all that bad, but bad enough that it was still bleeding 10 minutes after I came upon him. He had with him running shorts, a cotton tshirt, a hat (with a spare hat in his daypack?) and trainers for footwear. That's cool, but his first aid kit consisted of two band aids, two paracetamol two ibuprofen tablets and some duct tape for possible blisters. I gave him a triangle bandage, some suitable tape, a betadine swab, and a pocket knife to use. He was a nice fella and I persuaded him that a couple more items would be easy to carry and would come in handy, not only for him but maybe someone else. I guess it is just ignorance.

Again, I am not paranoid about fire and I don't walk in stupid-hot conditions. I'm not paranoid about snakebites either but I carry a kit. I suspect I would be more likely to be in the vicinity of fire at this time of year in the places I like to walk than I would be a snake bite victim. It's good to have a plan.

But I'm rambling now so I'll leave it there. Spose I should get back to the grindstone...

[Moondog55]

I am a little paranoid about bushfires.
I made a couple of those capes and keep them in the car along with several woollen blankets and enough stuff to cover the grandkids.
Mind you that is for the car although those capes weigh about 150 grams so it wouldn't be to much of a burden if I was ; for instance in charge of a group of school kids and HAD to go into the bush in the high risk time. For normal use I think a woollen shirt is OK.
If you wanted to take a minimum weight safety aid think about a hood made from builders foil, like a Ned Kelly helmet, weight about 40 grams and you can scrounge scraps at any building site

[McWade]

Something like you describe is totally worth carrying in the car in the bush in the heat. Already onto the sheet thing - a mate is a rooofy and reckons is is a hassle to dispose of the scraps. "Bring your ute and take the lot" he pleaded.

As a kid we used to camp overnight in whatever the farthest valley our parents would be willing to drop us off at for an overnighter. No stranger-danger out in the middle of the Pilbara, at least not back then. One morning, a hypo member of our gang dared another kid to approach a drum that had been left out there. When this kid got within a couple of feat, the other threw a lit match into the drum. UP it went. It was full of some kind of petroleum product. The result was severe burns. It was the first time I found out how I would react to an emergency. It still haunts me from time to time. That was 28 years ago. Still, I wouldn't say I am paranoid. Just good to have a plan. My wife is unexpectedly prego with our first child. I over the moon. Not least because the deal we struck about finances etc is "OK, I won't skydive for a couple of years, see how we go, but I'm gonnna have to spend more time in the bush". Good deal ay? My point is that i'm good with risk and reward. MInimising risk to do something fun doesn't take away from the fun.