Bush rescues

[Journo ABC1]

Hi all,

I'm a journalist at ABC news researching a story about bush rescues and changes made to the procedures in the last few years. If you or anyone you know has had to call for help when lost or needing assistance in the bush in the last three years, please email me at [email protected]. Even if it didn't eventuate in a rescue.

Many thanks,

Lucy

[FatCanyoner]

I can't think of anyone I know who has had to call in a rescue (other than that very publicised case from Xmas eve last year!) in the last three years, but I'll have a think.
By the way, good to see such an open and up front message. Some journalists have run into trouble on the site and others before, but I hope your very responsible approach is rewarded with respectful feedback and some people willing to have a yarn.
Interestingly, most rescues I hear about are of less experienced people / groups. Rescues of the kind of super-active bushwalkers on this forum, or even rescues relating to bushwalking club trips, seem very rare. At least that is my recent experience around the Blue Mountains. That said, disaster strikes from time to time, so I'm sure there are others on here who have experienced it first hand and were forced to call in the choppers!

[phan_TOM]

Hi Lucy, I can't think of anyone I know personally either, but I am involved in responding to the rescue of missing or overdue bushwalkers. I'd be interested in knowing what changes in procedure have taken place are and what they used to be?

Interestingly, most rescues I hear about are of less experienced people / groups. Rescues of the kind of super-active bushwalkers on this forum, or even rescues relating to bushwalking club trips, seem very rare

We've had a number of search & recovery jobs in the last year alone and I can't think of one that involved an experienced bushwalker, mostly they were underprepared people who got caught out. Either they left the track and got lost, it got dark and they had no light, were injured and had no redundancy etc. The last one was a call-out at 9pm, about 5 or so degrees for a lost teenage boy who we found shivering in jeans and t-shirt, no food water, no wet weather gear and mobile phone as light source (and safety talisman ). Who had been caught out when it got dark and then kept walking but followed a creek bed instead of the track until completely lost... Luckily he had friends who were expecting him who raised the alarm.

[wayno]

does it include NZ?
DOC have changed a process at Tongariro National Park, requiring shuttle operators to all belong to a group which will refuse to take anyone inappropriately equipped after an operator recently took a group of ill clothed people to the crossing, they all required rescue later with some having advanced hypothermia

[Strider]

There have been a few first hand accounts posted here too. Try a search?

[Rob A]

Why dont you PM David Morr

[Peter Campbell]

Bush Search and Rescue Victoria is a volunteer emergency services organisation that participates with bush and alpine search and rescue activities in Victoria, assisting the Victoria Police Search and Rescue Squad.

We have some information about searches on our website here http://bsar.org/searches

[FatCanyoner]

Good point Peter. The volunteer rescue associations would definitely provide a great point of contact.
Here in NSW we have the Bushwalkers Wilderness Rescue Squad - http://www.bwrs.org.au/

[Miyata610]

And in Tas the police sar are assisted by a specialist SES sar team.

http://www.ses.tas.gov.au/what_is_ses/v ... _teams.htm

[CaptainC]

There is also the various police search and rescue units. The Police are legally in charge of all S&R.

[Gusto]

This is probably a little irrelevant for your story. But if your going to investigate the topic of rescues extensively then it is worth asking what is the cost of conducting a search and rescue.

Further more it could be worth asking why the government doesn't subsidize items such as EPIRBS etc.

Quite seriously, I am confident the govt would save money if every Parks Office had epribs or SPOTs etc, to be hired out for Free or low cost. Other alternatives would be for rescue devices to be subsidized or tax deductible. The govt has had generous Sat Phone Subsidies.

I understand having a system like this may create many problems in it self. But the bottom line is that it is always cheaper to conduct a rescue when the exact location is known.

[corvus]

Understand where you are coming from Gusto however having lots of get out ofJail Cards (GPS/SPOT) could create even more "rescues" from under equipped /inexperienced walkers.

Having said that I also adhere to the thought "how much a life" so this is between a rock and a hard place for me however I really think Life is worth it even for those who make mistakes
corvus

[Gusto]

Spot on Corvus, it's a hard question to answer. Being dogmatic on either extreme (the rock or the hard place) of the argument doesn't help.

Which is why I am reluctant to see a minimum amount of equipment to be mandated by law. I also don't want PLBs to become a free item that people don't respect. I am uncertain of the perfect solution. I may not be opposed to the idea that there is a token rescue fee. That is paid by the person needing rescuing. A small cost that will ultimately not be of a concern to anyone who is in real need of help, but will deter people from pushing the button as a first response to when they feel upset. eg. $500.

It's a similar question as to if it is better or worse to provide tracks and refuge huts/shelter in parks etc. Keeping the bush inaccessible in theory stops only those who are prepared (or brave) enough to enter. I happen to feel that society has much to gain/learn from being able to get out bush, be it car camping or bushwalking etc. I don't want to see everywhere become closed off to only bushwalkers, I also don't everywhere to be opened up to allow vehicle access. And yet I feel that the Govt should promote people to get out and about in the bush as much as possible.


Perhaps it's all irrelevant, in 5 years time maybe all smart phones will have Satelite messaging. They already have GPS.

[MartyGwynne]

Lucy.

As per what P Campbell said.

I have never had to be rescued (yet), I would like to think I am too well prepared and cautious to do so.
But in saying that 2 friends had to be rescued from PB in Tassie a couple of years ago. Two very fit and able guys, one suffered an injury and after some trying they realised they were not going to make it back home in time without running out of food by 3-4 days (all going well). So they pinged the spot and helicopter plucked them off the mountain - safe and well (except one bad ankle).

I am happy to know that there are S&R teams able to conduct such rescues regardless of how or why people need their help.
I always try to ensure I have left my trip plan with others who can alert S&R if required or at least tell them where I will be at a given time of day if I need to ping the PLB.

I do hope the research is done for a good story which will sort of educate the general public about Bush S&R's and what to do to help any S&R teams etc etc etc.

Marty.

[doogs]

It would be good if anyone who has been rescued could share it here. If we could learn from others mistakes it would be very useful and could potentially save lives. I have never been rescued so unfortunately (or fortunately) can't get the ball rolling. Anyone?

[ILUVSWTAS]

It would be good if anyone who has been rescued could share it here. If we could learn from others mistakes it would be very useful and could potentially save lives. I have never been rescued so unfortunately (or fortunately) can't get the ball rolling. Anyone?

Where's the Brem when you need him...........

[Ent]

It would be good if anyone who has been rescued could share it here. If we could learn from others mistakes it would be very useful and could potentially save lives. I have never been rescued so unfortunately (or fortunately) can't get the ball rolling. Anyone?

Where's the Brem when you need him...........

I think that last comment is why this will not happen!

[andrewa]

No one has mentioned the idea of insurance. We have insurance to cover all sorts of other disasters in life - why not the same for bush rescues? Like an ambulance subscription - actually, does the ambulance subscription not provide cover in remote places?

I have never come close to needing a rescue, but I suppose a broken leg would induce one. Has anyone ever looked to see whether insurance is available.

Given how few rescues seem to occur, I'm not convinced that Govt provision / subsidy of Epirbs would be a useable solution.

I'd be happy to pay an annual insurance premium to cover my wanderings, but this would presume that one would otherwise be charged for any rescue.

It is an interesting discussion, and one that people probably don't think about that much.

Andrew A

[FatCanyoner]

We have insurance to cover all sorts of other disasters in life - why not the same for bush rescues?
...
I'd be happy to pay an annual insurance premium to cover my wanderings, but this would presume that one would otherwise be charged for any rescue.

Most bushwalking clubs have insurance that covers this sort of thing. In NSW, clubs that affiliate with the Confederation of Bushwalking Clubs can pay to come under their policy. The club I walk with only charges about $35 a year in membership, and about half that is for insurance premiums that include rescues. It is a tiny cost to pay, and gives my wife a lot of peace of mind when I'm out walking.

[ollster]

Where's the Brem when you need him...........

I think that last comment is why this will not happen!

Little FELLOW would never back down and say he was wrong and planned the whole thing badly, never displayed any contrition. He ignored all advice and made exactly the kind of screw up someone with little experience would. That is THE prime example of a badly planned trip by people who were cocky, inexperienced and in light of the advice they ignored, just plain stupid.

AARGGGHHH.

[Gusto]

Ambulance membership covers everywhere. But an Ambulance service is not a S&R service.

That said, Ambos have helicopters. So presumably, if you were able to know exactly where you are and communicate this to 000 then an Ambo helicopter rescue would be the perfect service, provided you were seriously injured.

I suspect they wouldn't come if you said that your injury was that you are 'lost'. Also maybe they would refer you onto S&R or Police if your injury wasn't in need of urgent attention. eg. broken toe.


My question is, can 000 be contacted by text message?

[MartyGwynne]

yes 000 can be texted.
They will attempt to call you back.
But when you are in a place where only one bar of signal is present texting is your only option.
Perhaps you should invest in a spot or PLB or sat phone etc.
Marty
PS you will need to provide who where when what and an another contact person who knows where you are to verify your story - this will help you greatly. (even include what state you are in as 000 people are likely to be in a state other than yours, they used to be in Ballarat).

[Azza]

Ambulance membership covers everywhere. But an Ambulance service is not a S&R service.

That said, Ambos have helicopters. So presumably, if you were able to know exactly where you are and communicate this to 000 then an Ambo helicopter rescue would be the perfect service, provided you were seriously injured.

I suspect they wouldn't come if you said that your injury was that you are 'lost'. Also maybe they would refer you onto S&R or Police if your injury wasn't in need of urgent attention. eg. broken toe.


My question is, can 000 be contacted by text message?

errr... well as far as little old Tassie is concern the Air Ambulance and S&R helicopter are one and the same...
I reckon its somewhat irrelevant how it gets call out, because the govt still foots the bill.. I assume it just costs a lot more if a full S&R is required.
We're in a situation now where they're trying to save money so they're looking at whether its really necessary to send out the heli.
Don't forget that a significant part of the cost to these services is rescuing people from car crashes and ferrying sick people in remote parts of the state to hospital. Honestly for that occasional bushwalking screw up when it all goes a bit wrong I'm happier to think that tax pays money is spent rescuing people.
Compared to bogan idiots on the road that drive too fast and have horrific senseless accidents...

Thankfully unlike other parts of Australia we haven't ended up in a situation yet where you need to take out dedicated Ambulance insurance.
For somewhere like Tasmania where there is no requirement to pay costs for a legitimate rescue, I would highly doubt an insurance policy is going to pay out anyway.. pre-standard clause in most insurance fine print - if the costs are covered by someone else or another policy then they have grounds to get out of paying or reducing the amount.

[Nuts]

What are these changes Sally?

[Mark F]

Another thing to consider is the difference between "search" and "rescue". Search is expensive both in dollars and hours/days of many people's time. Rescue is relatively cheap, quick and requires few people. Thus the argument for the use of PLBs and SPOTs.

I always marvel at the hundreds or thousands of hours of helicopter and aircraft time spent searching for idiots in small, unseaworthy boats and the public never seems to complain even thought the costs must run in to 6+ figures. Lost/damaged walkers draw letters to the papers about the costs even if it only required 1 hour of helicopter time to effect the rescue. My office overlooks the helipad at Canberra's main hospital and the start of the ski season sees a remarkable increase in traffic from the ski fields occasionally with 2 helicopters on the ground at the same time. So who should pay? My view is the rescued but there needs to be a comprehensive insurance offering that fully funds the rescue costs. Anybody needing search and rescue should have to pay the true cost as they do in much of Europe. To balance this, that there needs to be appropriate insurance available to all, maybe built into vehicle and boat registration fees, but otherwise easily available to all either through clubs or as an option in general household insurance.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Where's the Brem when you need him...........

I think that last comment is why this will not happen!

Little FELLOW would never back down and say he was wrong and planned the whole thing badly, never displayed any contrition. He ignored all advice and made exactly the kind of screw up someone with little experience would. That is THE prime example of a badly planned trip by people who were cocky, inexperienced and in light of the advice they ignored, just plain stupid.

AARGGGHHH.

Yeo wot he said