Rain jacket - what's worth having?

[Moel Hebog]

I've read this thread with interest, particularly the comments about DWR durability and de-laminating issues with eVent. I'm still in the UK at the moment, going to be in NSW from beginning of September.

In the Brit outdoor press eVent is considered to be a good fabric, to be honest this thread is the first time I've seen delaminating issues with eVent. Montane has a very good reputation and I would be surprised if they didn't honour guarantees. I've made a mental note to bring lots of nikwax tech wash and TX direct re-proofer. I do use pure liquid soap flakes as a substitute for tech wash as it is cheaper. A 1 ltr bottle is normally £4 here, can you get it in Australia?

Another option for waterproofs is Paramo, even the lighter weight items can make you run a bit warm but they are indestructable with lots of venting options. You can also do away with a mid layer as well = lighter pack.

I will be bringing a few rain jackets over, Rohan Pinnacle jkt (3 layer barricade fabric, riri aquazips and huge venting zips), Montane Mohawk in eVent, Rab Bergen eVent trousers, OMM Kamleika Race jacket, Montain Litespeed H2O, Montane Litespeed Pertex jacket and Montain Pertex Featherlite pants and a couple of other wind shirts.

Do you think that will be enough?

[stepbystep]

It's becoming more apparent there is no perfect bit of kit, but there is perfect kit for certain situations. Jackets are no exception.

If I had my way I would have 4 or 5 rain jackets for different uses and there are even trips where I would like to have 2!!!

I recently reviewed this viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9702 jacket. It is perfect for a long cold scrubby/scambling trip when coupled with decent overpants. I would carry a second ultralight jacket for wearing at camp after I had stripped off wet gear. This jacket also performs well when climbing etc

However if I was doing the OLT for example I would like a longer cut jacket with a good breathable membrane that would allow me to wear shorts and gaiters comfortably. I'd like to carry a lightweight jacket for on track daywalks and I've always fancied having the Macpac XPD for non-scrubby multi-day trips like the Western Arthurs.

Best to decide what type of walking you will be doing and base your decision making on that.

[John Sheridan]

Would a sea to summit poncho and rainpants be a valid choice for rain gear, that's what I will be using, as long as the pants have some kind of venting in them I guess it would be fine, the poncho should have plenty of airflow to keep you coolish.

I like the Poncho as it can be turned into another shelter if needed, I just like a day shelter I can lounge under if the rain aint that heavy, sowhere I can stand and or sit down, then move into your main tent when you want to go to sleep, am I weird

Cheers.

[wayno]

poncho's can be a problem in high wind, rain can get under neath and theres the windchill factor in cold weather..
not popular in nz, if you're on top of a ridge in the open the wind can come up at you can so can the rain....

[Ent]

Um? My Montane Air is starting to delaminate where the pack sits. It did the West Coast on the weekend with a trip up Mount Farrell followed by walk to camp overnight at Lake Sandra. Conditions ranged from rain to more rain, hail to more hail and snow. In all a good work out. Now if it was not delaminating I would be singing its praises. The track up to Lake Sandra showed it could shake of some scrub and not self destruct and it breathed nicely. The hood is the best on any jacket I have. Keep me dry but a bit short.

Now for comparison my waterproof pants were Three Peak ones. They are cheap and cheerful. They held together but were like a plastic bag to wear. Sure they will keep the wind out and not a bad cut but you will be as wet even if you did not wear them.

So I had a good top and lousy bottoms and can say eVent worked well but after two walks the jacket is looking rather second hand. A good wash and see the damage.

If I was not in weight saving mode I would say stuff it and wear my Paddy Pallin Vista Goretex Proshell jacket and pants. They work very well and only the 1.6 kg weight means I am trying lighter gear,

Cheers

[ULWalkingPhil]

Looks like investing in a lightweight rainjacket is not the best for overnight hiking. I've just returned back home, but I've seen very little rain, particularly while backpacking. Last Saturday it rained almost 200mm on the Gold Coast, My Montane Air did a great job in keeping me dry. I was out shopping for the day.

I don't think I'll use my Montane Air Jacket for overnight hikes, not after reading Ents results after a couple of walks. I'm going to stick with my Goretex Jacket.

[wayno]

they need to design more lightweight jackets like marmots super mica, has reinforced patches on the shoulders and waist where the wear is greatest from a pack

[sthughes]

Well Mainpeak came good and my new replacement Montane Air arrived today. As it seems to be a terminal issue with the Airs delaminating I'm not sure when I will actually ever wear it. So I guess it will go into my strategic surplus gear stockpile! A brilliant jacket in most ways, but unfortunatley only lasts a few days walking with a pack before delaminating.

[iGBH]

Well Mainpeak came good and my new replacement Montane Air arrived today. As it seems to be a terminal issue with the Airs delaminating I'm not sure when I will actually ever wear it. So I guess it will go into my strategic surplus gear stockpile! A brilliant jacket in most ways, but unfortunatley only lasts a few days walking with a pack before delaminating.

I'm sure that it's a pretty large stockpile, with plenty of other jackets in it!

How much do you want for it?

[sthughes]

Well Mainpeak came good and my new replacement Montane Air arrived today. As it seems to be a terminal issue with the Airs delaminating I'm not sure when I will actually ever wear it. So I guess it will go into my strategic surplus gear stockpile! A brilliant jacket in most ways, but unfortunatley only lasts a few days walking with a pack before delaminating.

I'm sure that it's a pretty large stockpile, with plenty of other jackets in it!

How much do you want for it?

Actually thinking last night I might stick it on eBay for $200 seem it's about $300 everywhere else. But if that fails I'll try and sell it for cost here ($135 + postage).

[wildbluesea]

OK, I’ll throw a lefty here. I am a self-confessed gear junky, owning in excess of a dozen rain jackets, my latest, a Montane Superfly XT is on the way from the UK as I write. I might just get ONE more….a neo shell! And yes, I wear them all (but not at once!) However, I am lucky enough to be able to afford such luxuries, but am certainly not a brand snob. For those that can’t afford the latest name brands, but still want high tech jacket, pants etc, there is another option, which has been independently tested, the results of which are now generally accepted as the most accurate and unbiased…the items have also been field tested by the largest user base, reported on and constantly improved. I am talking about the American military. Their ECWCS (extended cold weather clothing system) is generally considered the best technical military clothing in the world. They have spent an unthinkable amount on research and design. And it is cheap! You can buy it all new, with tags, online from dozens of stores and on ebay from the U.S. I have most of it. Look for the gen. 2 stuff, or gen3 if you want paclite goretex. My personal favourite is the marpat design Gore-tex pants and jacket, which cost a total of $200 plus $40 freight. New with tags! This is one tough set of Gore-tex rainwear! Chest pockets, hand warmer pockets, sleeve pockets, map pocket, stowable hood, underarm venting zips. Even the pants have thigh pockets. The only minus, in my opinion, is the waterproof one-way front zipper on the jacket. Why do they still do this on jackets; I’m sure a two-way zipper would only cost a couple of dollars more! 99% of their gear is Gore-tex, although I believe they have used Event. Their gen3 jacket and trousers are paclite type Gore-tex, very light, yet tuff, but the jacket is only basic – only arm pockets and chest access openings. But there is a stowable hood and underarm vent zips. If anyone wants pics, I’ll gladly post. The low cost of this great clothing is a true indication of the “real” cost of high tech clothing, without the branding.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I wouldn't mind seeing some images.
Do you have a link to a website.

[wildbluesea]

Only new to this site...joined toaday. What's the best way to show some pics.

I've purchased mainly from ebay. Get to know prices...they vary a lot. And watch the postage....the yanks are expensive and often add extra...knock a bit off the price but add it to the postage.

Here's what I paid for some of my stuff, new with tags,NOT including post:
USMC MARPAT GORE-TEX JACKET AND TROUSERS SET APECS MEDIUM $204
Generation 2 ECWCS COLD WEATHER Pants Goretex $102
Digital Woodland, Marpat Goretex Jacket $153
GEN III ECWCS LEVEL 6 Goretex TROUSER, EXTREME COLD WEATHER, ACU $71
USMC MARINE CORPS USMC DESERT MARPAT GORTEX JACKET $133 (this is the paclite type)
PROPPER GEN2 EWCWS GORETEX WATERPROOF ACU ARMY PARKA $158

This gear is made by several companies....look for Propper or Tennier Industries. Propper is made in the US but also have factories offshore. I have both and the quality is the same, but offshore (Dominican Republic) is a few bucks cheaper as it doesn't have the made in usa tag. You can buy direct from propper...they have long and short fittings.....but you pay premium price.

When sizing, be aware that the gear is part of a layering system, thermals, shirts, fleeces etc, so if you don't wear too many layers, go down a size. I'm 180cm 187kg and 42" chest. I don't wear too much underneath...just a fleece sometimes and all my us jackets are med reg. Oh yes, I wear their ecwcs fleeces too...about $70

Please advise re the pics and I'll post some or whatever you advise.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Only new to this site...joined toaday. What's the best way to show some pics.

I've purchased mainly from ebay. Get to know prices...they vary a lot. And watch the postage....the yanks are expensive and often add extra...knock a bit off the price but add it to the postage.

Here's what I paid for some of my stuff, new with tags,NOT including post:
USMC MARPAT GORE-TEX JACKET AND TROUSERS SET APECS MEDIUM $204
Generation 2 ECWCS COLD WEATHER Pants Goretex $102
Digital Woodland, Marpat Goretex Jacket $153
GEN III ECWCS LEVEL 6 Goretex TROUSER, EXTREME COLD WEATHER, ACU $71
USMC MARINE CORPS USMC DESERT MARPAT GORTEX JACKET $133 (this is the paclite type)
PROPPER GEN2 EWCWS GORETEX WATERPROOF ACU ARMY PARKA $158

This gear is made by several companies....look for Propper or Tennier Industries. Propper is made in the US but also have factories offshore. I have both and the quality is the same, but offshore (Dominican Republic) is a few bucks cheaper as it doesn't have the made in usa tag. You can buy direct from propper...they have long and short fittings.....but you pay premium price.

When sizing, be aware that the gear is part of a layering system, thermals, shirts, fleeces etc, so if you don't wear too many layers, go down a size. I'm 180cm 187kg and 42" chest. I don't wear too much underneath...just a fleece sometimes and all my us jackets are med reg. Oh yes, I wear their ecwcs fleeces too...about $70

Please advise re the pics and I'll post some or whatever you advise.

Hi, and welcome to the forums.

Here's how to attach images to a posting.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=562

[wildbluesea]

Here are some pics of the ECWCS gear.
[

[wildbluesea]

more ecwcs pics

[wildbluesea]

This fleece is a copy, made by Rothco. Truspec also make them. I also have an original propper. But the coppies appear to be the same quality, but seem to fit better. The propper is loose around the bottom, which lets heat escape. I prefer the Rothco, but have all three. They are warm as toast. Some of the known brands such as Macpac now use similar fleece in one of their jackets.

[sthughes]

Don't suppose they come in black do they (special forces night ops?)? Not sure I wan't to look like I'm invading the place!

[wildbluesea]

Yes they do. And I have one! Great for around town. Rothco and Truspec make green, tan and black. Think propper only make green.

If you're bushwalking, who cares what you look like....the wildlife doesn't care! Around town I'm careful just to wear a cammo jacket with normal pants, or cammo pants with normal jacket. However, in the hick Tassy town I live in, I reckon the hunting, fishing, shooting locals would pat me on the back, and welcome me as one of their own if I wore the full kit!

[ULWalkingPhil]

I wonder what weight they are?

[wildbluesea]

My medium is 600g on the kitchen scales

[ULWalkingPhil]

My medium is 600g on the kitchen scales

Great looking gear, but to heavy for me. I'm a lightweight hiker. I am looking for a lightweight rain pants in the 200 gram range.

[wildbluesea]

This is my favourite, the U.S. marine marpat 3 layer Goretex jacket. Not me wearing it...from youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8INVnebf9I

[kymboy]

I'm 180cm 187kg and 42" chest. I don't wear too much underneath...just a fleece sometimes and all my us jackets are med reg..

187 kilo???? You must like your tucker

[wildbluesea]

Yep, good paddock. Sorry...make that 87kg....heading towards 187!

[wayno]

what amazes me are the prices,, you know it's going to be robust if it's made for the military and you'd be willing to pay something for that, but the prices are a steal for what's on offer provided you don't mind wearing camo as your only choice of colour...
good option for those who don't have the spare cash for the normal commrecial prices, great gear, great price.

[RSD]

Just to clarify - the Gen2 gear is 3 layer Goretex, and the Gen3 gear is Pac-lite?

[wildbluesea]

That's correct. Gen2 is 3 layer with plenty of pockets etc, Gen3 is paclight with a pocket or two missing to save weight etc. The Marpat that is pictured is 3 layer and has waterproof zippers, instead of flaps over the zippers, but is only a one way zipper at the front.

[RSD]

Is the Goretex in the Gen 1 the same as the Gen 2? (with the Gen 2 just being a newer design)?

[wildbluesea]

Yes. The Goretex membrane is the same, but the outer shell is a bit softer in the Gen 2. The Gen one is a *&%$#! good jacket....I have one...but the Gen two is more refined. Gen 1 jacket has a silly silky lining and a hood that isn't stowable. Being as the cost is almost the same, I would go gen2. But if I found one cheap, gen1 is worth considering. The quality is the same in both.