Rate this Sleeping Bag ?

[Toohp]

Hi ,( I'm new here ) I'm looking at upgrading from my Syn Mountain Hardware bag to this
Marmot Hydrogen 30 F / 0 c bag .

http://marmot.com/products/hydrogen?p=117,71

I mostly camp in spring / summer times/ temps / Vic / Nsw Alpine , althou I have been caught out on the Dargo high plains dropped to - 5 c one night , but I don't expect that to happen again ?
I think my bottom temp range is around zero deg C .
I reckon I'm a cold sleeper and I do use & like my Sea to Summit Thermo Reactor liner inside my bag
This bag be ok ?
I read a few have the warmer one ( pinnacle ) and are happy , but would like to get my pack weight down .
Or should I go with WM ? They are a bit more $$ !

Cheer's Toohp

[vagrom]

If you ever come down to Tassie, don't skimp on water-proofing, which is what often happens as bags get "lighter".

Basically, it's a trade-off between warmthness versus lightness, with the added caveats of water-proofness ( down still beats synthetic ) and bulk- the best synthetic bags are horribly space consuming.
The best Thermo Reactor liner weighs 440gms, so there's a half kilo more but granted, take it out and you're back to a summer bag.
Just do, try to avoid paying too much.

Wild Mag's last survey ( Edit: Spring 2009, #119; an excellent survey,imho. OP voted warmest: 1.6kg, $600; Western Mountaineering(US), voted best,lightest: 800gms, $800 ) seemed to offer a range between the $800, 800gm American bag and the $600,1.8kg One Planet Bushlight Super, which has been around for years now. The survey notes the heaviness of the stuff sack. But a stuff-sack that saves the bag when you tip over in a river is just so,so necessary, at the end of a wet, cold day. The Bushlite's water resistance is just so welcome when you wake up at the end of a stormy night and there's water in the toe end of the tent. And then there's unexpected floods where you have to up-stakes and move to higher ground.

If you're going to outlay a few hundred, why not get one that'll see you good for years to come. A silk liner (Kathmandu large $60) and 3/4, thin,Thermarest: 415gms and you're laughing.

But most people are going for lighter bags in order to lighten up their total, bags not much more than a kilo that they swear by. Then you're kept a day extra at Goon Moor, an icy day and even with your thermals on, it doesn't work. (The American bag appeared to have no water-proofing whatever).

Last edited by vagrom on Sat 13 Aug, 2011 9:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

[Dale]

Hi Toohp

Welcome to the forum !

If you're purpose is to decrease pack weight and make sure you compensate for being a cold sleeper than you might be better off going for a warmer bag and ditching the S2S liner. You can protect the bag with a cheapo and light silk liner and stilll make the bag warmer by adding clothing if you happen to strike an extra cold night.

If you buy the bags from Oz when not on sale you'll be up for quite a bit of coin.

For a local bag at a good price:
http://www.macpac.com.au/shop/en_au/gea ... s-400.html

-4 limit comfort and 780g weight - there is also a -8 version for a bit of extra weight.

If you're happy to order from the States then try:

http://www.moontrail.com/mont-bell-ul-s ... -1-reg.php

Although Montbell don't EN test their bags this has 567g of fill and if you order from Moontrail you get the bonus points which will save you a lot of bucks through picking up camping freebies

another suggestion:

http://www.hermitshut.com/wemoul20dedo.html

The WM Ultralite is rated to -7 and has 450g of fill.

For five days on the Australian Alps Track (northern end) in late April I used a WM Summerlite in a single wall shelter and used clothing to get warmer when the temps got in the low minuses. I experienced a lot of condensation as there was some heavy rains and the bag's DWR treatment did a fine job of repelling the water.

There are quite a few owners of Marmot bags on the forum who can no doubt chime in with their thoughts on the Hydrogen.

Happy shopping !

Cheers

Dale.

[Empacitator]

If you ever come down to Tassie, don't skimp on water-proofing, which is what often happens as bags get "lighter".

Basically, it's a trade-off between warmthness versus lightness, with the added caveats of water-proofness ( down still beats synthetic ) and bulk- the best synthetic bags are horribly space consuming.
The best Thermo Reactor liner weighs 440gms, so there's a half kilo more but granted, take it out and you're back to a summer bag.
Just do, try to avoid paying too much.

Wild Mag's last survey seemed to offer a range between the $800, 800gm American bag and the $600,1.8kg One Planet Bushlight Super, which has been around for years now. The survey notes the added heaviness of the stuff sack, which probably brings it up to around 2kgs. But a stuff-sack that saves the bag when you tip over in a river is just so,so necessary, at the end of a wet,cold day. The Bushlite's water resistance is just so welcome when you wake up at the end of a stormy night and there's water in the toe end of the tent. And then there's unexpected floods where you have to up-stakes and move to higher ground.

If you're going to outlay a few hundred, why not get one that'll see you good for years to come. A silk liner (Kathmandu large $60) and 3/4, thin,Thermarest: 440gms and you're laughing.

But most people are going for lighter bags in order to lighten up their total, bags not much more than a kilo that they swear by. Then you're kept a day extra at Goon Moor, an icy day and even with your thermals on, it doesn't work. (The American bag appeared to have no water-proofing whatever).

Sorry, but I can't agree with this post at all.

If you want to improve your bag warmth, get a bag which is rated to go to a lower temperature. A silk liner will do stuff all to keep you warm, best use is that it may keep your bag cleaner

Instead of relying on a stuff sack to keep your gear dry, get a proper dry bag for your sleeping bag and other equipment which can't get wet.

If you require a water-resistant sleeping bag, you have made serious errors when it comes to campsite selection and shelter set up. You should never let water get to your sleeping bag in this arrangement, whether it's waterproof or not. It's already too late. If you REALLY want to make sure your bag doesn't get wet, purchase a light, breathable bivy (shouldn't be required in most setups).

Going lighter doesn't mean not having the right equipment for the conditions.

Anyway, back to the OP's question.

The Hydrogen is a good bag, if you sleep cold then you may want to wear your warm clothes to bed with you (fleece, down, whatever). This should keep you toasty.

An alternative to the Hydrogen is the Western Mountaineering Summerlite, this is a great bag, although probably more expensive to purchase. Have a look here at some various Summerlite sleeping setups:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5123

[Nuts]

I sleep average to cold compared to other (fellas) ive walked with using the same marmot bags. Havent used the hydrogen though i would expect to be warm enough with thermals at the comfort rating as with the others in the range. The helium is the next warmest in the category (not pinnacle). The Arroyo/Pinnacles do have a more water resistant shell (they damp out but i don't think it soaks through too easily)..

There can be a vast difference between users though (as reflected in the ratings).

(imo) the hydrogen would be a great 3 season option for the areas you describe if your concerned with weight (just carry enough clothes for areas/times in doubt).

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Last edited by Nuts on Thu 07 Jul, 2011 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

Addum: Dont pay $340 though, look around, all else fails try here (note '20%' discount)...:

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[corvus]

Interesting topic with a couple of statements asserted as facts such as" Silk Liners add no warmth" ,based on that premise why wear anything at any time, choice walk nude in snow or with a single layer of Silk who would be at least 1degree warmer even with IBH ?? and "you need to have the higher rated bag to keep /be warm" so what about personal internal body heat of some ??
Many things determine how warm you sleep bearing in mind that the bag is really to keep heat in not create it so if you go to bed cold there is not much you can do about it once in there (unless you are sharing ) further I could be wrong but I believe the EN testing of bags is done on a -7 rated mat.
Just my opinion as a -5 rated 400g fill 860 cu in loft water resistant Ethical Down Bag with a Pro Lite 4 reg mat and a Silk liner, warm sleeping user .
corvus

Last edited by corvus on Thu 07 Jul, 2011 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

Your gonna have to write 'degrees' Corv (no symbol on my keyboard either), 1 percent i was thinking you thought they were'nt worth carrying
As mentioned, i dont use one any more but for those that do (and wear thermals as well, getting into a bivy is no harder, maybe another option?

Anyhow, the S2S liners are nice, theyre there too:

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[Empacitator]

Interesting topic with a couple of statements asserted as facts such as" Silk Liners add no warmth" ,based on that premise why wear anything at any time, choice walk nude in snow or with a single layer of Silk who would be at least 1% warmer even with IBH ?? and "you need to have the higher rated bag to keep /be warm" so what about personal internal body heat of some ??
Many things determine how warm you sleep bearing in mind that the bag is really to keep heat in not create it so if you go to bed cold there is not much you can do about it once in there (unless you are sharing ) further I could be wrong but I believe the EN testing of bags is done on a -7 rated mat.
Just my opinion as a -5 rated 400g fill 860 cu in loft water resistant Ethical Down Bag with a Pro Lite 4 reg mat and a Silk liner, warm sleeping user .
corvus

I didn't say they add no warmth- I said that they will make stuff all difference and if you want to be warmer you are better off spending that weight getting a better bag . I have used the silk liners before and they can be handy for keeping your bag clean.

I agree with you that a warm sleep is more than the equipment that you use

[corvus]

Is it a matter of semantics ?? adds no or stuff all warmth
IMHO adding any extra layer of quality clothing increases/retains body heat so why would a Silk liner not do the same especially as Silk for weight /warmth factor has been in use for thousands of years
coevus

[Orion]

gonna have to write 'degrees' Corv (no symbol on my keyboard

But you can cut and paste it: °
Or you might be able to hold down the ALT key and type 0176 on the keypad: °

-40°C = -40°F

[Toohp]

Thanks for the reply's

I use this liner and quite like it , I havn't tried the Silk .
I thought coupled with the Hydrogen would be a good combo .
I have a Paddy Pallins near by might go down and look at the WM Summerlight today
But one of the main reason for the Hydrogen is I can get a fair bit cheaper than there RPR $

Cheers Toohp

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[Toohp]

Went to Paddy Pallins & came home with the WM Summerlight , 30 % off sale started today !
It look's and feels like a great bag . I'm a happy camper

[corvus]

Found this information for what it is worth
Bag / Mat Combination

Which sleeping bag and mat combination is for me?

When and where are you going? How high up will you be? How far do you have carry everything? How knackered will you be when you get there? Are you likely to get very wet?

Temperature Ratings

In the UK you can pretty much expect to encounter close to freezing conditions at any time of the year (ask anyone who has hiked on Dartmoor, frost in early summer is not uncommon), but rather than getting the bag that is going to suit this one occassion, buy one that will be ideal for you the majority of the time, and wear a few items of clothing in rare colder cases or get a fleece sleeping bag liner to add a season when necessary. In summer at low level it may be possible to use bags rated for only one or two seasons but as altitude is gained, warmer gear should be considered.

In terms of seasons the following is what is generally meant in terms of average temperatures.

Season 1 (Summer) 2 (Spring-Summer) 3 (Spring-Autumn) 4 (Winter) 5 (Expedition)
Rating (°C) +5 0 -5 -10 -15
Main Use Warm travel Camping May-Oct Allround Year-round UK High altitude and polar
Although the bags are grouped into seasons we feel that this is somewhat misleading, particularly in the UK, as the conditions experienced throughout the year vary greatly from area to area throughout the country. For instance a three season bag would generally be acceptable here in South Wales for year round use. However, the same could not be said in the Cairngorms.

Manufacturer's Temperature Ratings

Each manufacturer tends to use separate human field testers and also separate laboratory testing agents. This alone tends to make comparisons subjective, especially as each tester is somewhat biased towards keeping their job.

There has been a recognised series of tests that all bag manufacturers can subject their bags too. This combination of ISO 11079, TOG testing and field testing has been around for some time. Recently another stand alone test has been created - EN13537. These tests differ significantly and whilst some manufacturers are giving information produced by the new tests on their goods many are still going with their own ratings. We feel that the results produced by EN13537 are generally no better than the preceeding tests and not much better than manufacturer generated values as the test has a number of questionable areas. Here are a couple of the main problems with EN13537:

The base mat that the test is conducted upon has a comfort temperature of around -7 degrees C and therefore influences the results of different temperature bags in different ways (summer bags performance is improved and winter bag performance reduced)
As can be seen the test doesn't work for winter bags which is the most important area to be confident about as failure here is more likely to cause death or injury
There is no use of reference materials in the tests to check whether the results are accurate (a standard requirement of good scientific analysis)
Be aware that the extreme temperature rating given means frost bite likely but death unlikely, so it really isn't something you want to do!
As a result of these problems we have been forced to conduct our own field tests. Although somewhat crude, we attempted to use standardized conditions and ensure the person in question had completed a similar amount of exercise and had eaten a similar amount before going to bed. In some cases the tester was woken in the night to change from one bag to another. The tests were all done in a small backpacking tent with two people in it. Clothing worn was just a T-shirt and underpants, if extra thermals or fleeces needed to be worn to stay warm then this was deemed to be the extreme temperature rating not a comfort rating. The temperature given was measured inside the tent and was generaly found to be about 5°C higher than that outside.

I believe this is a fair comparison and would equate to Winter conditions in Tasmania and other Alpine areas of Australia.
corvus