Soda can stoves ?

[Orion]

Since this is a thread about DIY alcohol stoves I have a general question.

What are people using to glue the two halves of the stove together?

Michael, many of those stoves do not require an adhesive. Some are press fit together, some use the pot to close them up, and others are open burning. For the stoves that do require joining or sealing, a high temperature epoxy (e.g. "JB Weld") or high temp RTV silicone adhesive are common choices.

Google "zen alcohol stove" for a reasonably good review of many of the various styles.

[ninjapuppet]

Does anyone else have this packafeather stove to comment?

I wonder if it works with a calera cone.
and how long the burn time is. If its long enough we may be able to boil rice effectively.

I have both the featherfire shown above and the smaller XL model

I love 'em. They are really light, burn well, are controllable, and are just really well designed and made. They really are little works of art actually.

I've had 1.5L of water on the stove shown above - it took a while to boil, but the pot stands held it without any difficulty at all. It's an impressively solid little unit.

With the flame adjustment, the original featherfire stove works really well. The XL is a bit trickier because the base of the outer shell of the stove is open rather than enclosed. So with the XL, you have to make sure the bottom of the stove if pressed snugly into the ground to make a good seal, otherwise you can't restrict the air intake with the adjustable band. But as long as you are aware of that, the XL works well too.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Franco]

I am pretty sure that one of the BPL regulars (Lynn Miller) has the Packafeather and a few Caldera Cones as well.
I see if I can find any posts on the two. (the search engine there is less than ideal...)
Franco

[Franco]

This :
http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php
From bunnings
Franco

[Franco]

Finally something on the Pakafeather used with the Caldera Cone (not the thread I had in mind but it will do)
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=19174
some more comments on the Pakafeather..
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62856
If you read the White Blaze thread keep in mind that we do not have the same problems here as they do over there regarding fuel. Our 95% Ethanol (Methylated Spirit) is pretty safe and standard.
Franco

[Liamy77]

Does anyone else have this packafeather stove to comment?

I wonder if it works with a calera cone.
and how long the burn time is. If its long enough we may be able to boil rice effectively.

I have both the featherfire shown above and the smaller XL model

I love 'em. They are really light, burn well, are controllable, and are just really well designed and made. They really are little works of art actually.

I've had 1.5L of water on the stove shown above - it took a while to boil, but the pot stands held it without any difficulty at all. It's an impressively solid little unit.

With the flame adjustment, the original featherfire stove works really well. The XL is a bit trickier because the base of the outer shell of the stove is open rather than enclosed. So with the XL, you have to make sure the bottom of the stove if pressed snugly into the ground to make a good seal, otherwise you can't restrict the air intake with the adjustable band. But as long as you are aware of that, the XL works well too.

Cheers,
Alliecat

I presoak my rice in a wide neck bottle.... makes a huge cut to the cooking times

[ninjapuppet]

Thanks for the tip Liammy. You learn stuff every day.
As for the caldera cone and the packafeather I can now confirm it works together.... in a controlled environment anyway.

the knob just manages to fit through the little caldera air vent at the bottom, so everything is sweet!
By looking at the photos, i was initially abit worried about the stove flipping if i turn the knob but luckily this doesnt happen - the knob turns very effortlessly and the stove remains stable even without a pot on top. This is in contrast to the optimus NOVA + where the whole stove would tend to flip when the knob is turned.

with the 1.3L pot in the cone, the pot sits on the actual stove legs instead of the cone itself. you can see the blue A and the red B, that distance is supposed to be together if using the caldera's 10-12 stove. This doesnt cause any dramas since the pot is still mostly enclosed by the cone and rests at the correct distance from the packafeather stove because it rests on its own pot stand.

boil times:
- ok, at full throttle its slightly less hot than the caldera stove because it took about 30 seconds longer to boil half a cup compared to the caldera's 10-12 stove. However this time difference is still neglible when compared to gas and fuel stoves since alcohol is still about 2x as long. But i'm in no hurry and can wait an extra few minutes when i'm camping. burn time is on par with the 10-12 stove, both burning out around 10 minutes with 30ml of fuel in identical conditions.


HOWEVER: (positives)
• when i crank the knob right down to simmer mode, 30 ml burnt for longer than 25 minutes. at the 25 min mark, i got bored and couldnt be bothered waiting any longer and terminated the test. it still had a fair bit of fuel in it so i imagine it can burn longer than 30 mins easily. (i dont make a good scientist)
• As I had just boiled water and put it aside for a minute while setting up the packafeather again for simmer mode testing, i placed the pot back onto the stove, and ever after 10 minutes, the water was unable to achieve a rolling boil. This indicates that the simmer is so effective that the flame was not strong enough to reboil water that had just been boiled. This means frying fish will be AWESOME!

NEGATIVES
• At times, the flamed appeared to die out when in the cone. A closer look showed that there was a tiny flame going on and heat was still generated but not coming out through the top burner hole. This is quite dangerous as if you think the flame died out and added more fuel, you’ll be in trouble. This was easily remedied by just giving the stove a quick sharp blow and it would spring back into life. I believe this would be due to a lack of air coming in through the caldera cone.
• A strong blow with the hair dryer at the caldera cone nearly put this stove out sometimes even with my pot on top. Clearly this will not be as good as the caldera 10-12 stove in strong winds. I will have to test this out in the field to elaborate further. The caldera’s 10-12 stove just laughs at you and keeps burning even when you got 3 hair dryers blowing at it. It then even asks for more strong wind, as it only burns stronger.
• Its pack size is 50% more than the 12-10 stove so i’ll have to think of another way to store the stove or the caldera cone. The 10-12 stove fited in my pot happily with the side winder caldera inferno set, but the packafeather will say “either the cone goes, i or go. We cant co exist in this pot!”
Only time will tell how good it is, but first impressions are quite ok. Not perfect yet, but ok.

[crockle]

So, you got one then.
You might not make a good scientist (you say) , but a good rundown nevertheless - thanks!

they claim: Pot stand safely supports over 20 pounds.

hmmmmmmm

You needn't put 9KG (20lb) on it - but how's your skepticism on it's load bearing ability now that you have one ?

PS - Franco, thanks for digging out those links.

[tsangpo]

I like this sub-forum, some really interesting ideas on it for someone who enjoys a bit of DIY. So far I've made a couple of different types of alcohol stoves; a few supercats and a penny stove. They work quite well and I enjoy finding solutions to problems that you encounter. For instance I had a lot of trouble using a supercat resting on the snow that kept sliding about, so I had to try and make a fireproof but insulating base for it.

Here are the instructions for the stoves I've experimented with so far:
Supercat (very easy to make): http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/index.html
Penny Stove (a little harder but doable without any specialised equipment): http://www.jureystudio.com/pennystove/penny2.html

[geoffmallo]

If its long enough we may be able to boil rice effectively.

I precook my rice and then dehydrate it. Then just add boiling water and voila! Saves fuel (weight) on all stoves.

[Ticklebelly]

I precook my rice and then dehydrate it. Then just add boiling water and voila!

More info please. I have been making more and more meals and drinks by mixing cold and just heating to eating temp. Has been a successful process in saving fuel (and weight) but have not tried doing anything with rice. I take a soft drink stove on day walks but have only used it to heat water for drinks so far.

Ticklebelly

[geoffmallo]

@Ticklebelly

I cook the rice at home in a rice cooker. Then I dehydrate it in a dehydrator. Spread it out thinly across the drying rack. I run it overnight or until the rice is completely dry. This can be stored in a zip lock for a long time. I often put other things into the rice mix to make a meal, such as dried refried beans, dried salsa, curry, miso etc.

When on the trail heat the water up and mix it in. You'll have to experiment with how much water. For my meals I normally use about 300-400ml but that's including other things that need rehydrating. Let the pot stand for 5-7 mins until the rice is soft before eating. If you don't want soup it's better to put less water in and keep adding small amounts.

Interestingly we noted that cooked and dehydrated rice is lighter than normal uncooked rice too.

To get your serving size worked out measure how much you want in cooked rice and dry that. Then weigh the dehydrated version to get a baseline.

[Ticklebelly]

Thanks for the info on how you do rice, Geoff. Will experiment this weekend. I can see that the pre-cooked rice would be fine for making a meal on the track using a metho stove.

Ticklebelly

[hikin_jim]

boil times:
- ok, at full throttle its slightly less hot than the caldera stove because it took about 30 seconds longer to boil half a cup compared to the caldera's 10-12 stove. However this time difference is still neglible when compared to gas and fuel stoves since alcohol is still about 2x as long. But i'm in no hurry and can wait an extra few minutes when i'm camping. burn time is on par with the 10-12 stove, both burning out around 10 minutes with 30ml of fuel in identical conditions.

HOWEVER: (positives)
• when i crank the knob right down to simmer mode, 30 ml burnt for longer than 25 minutes. at the 25 min mark, i got bored and couldnt be bothered waiting any longer and terminated the test. it still had a fair bit of fuel in it so i imagine it can burn longer than 30 mins easily. (i dont make a good scientist)
• As I had just boiled water and put it aside for a minute while setting up the packafeather again for simmer mode testing, i placed the pot back onto the stove, and ever after 10 minutes, the water was unable to achieve a rolling boil. This indicates that the simmer is so effective that the flame was not strong enough to reboil water that had just been boiled. This means frying fish will be AWESOME!

NEGATIVES
• At times, the flamed appeared to die out when in the cone. A closer look showed that there was a tiny flame going on and heat was still generated but not coming out through the top burner hole. This is quite dangerous as if you think the flame died out and added more fuel, you’ll be in trouble. This was easily remedied by just giving the stove a quick sharp blow and it would spring back into life. I believe this would be due to a lack of air coming in through the caldera cone.
• A strong blow with the hair dryer at the caldera cone nearly put this stove out sometimes even with my pot on top. Clearly this will not be as good as the caldera 10-12 stove in strong winds. I will have to test this out in the field to elaborate further. The caldera’s 10-12 stove just laughs at you and keeps burning even when you got 3 hair dryers blowing at it. It then even asks for more strong wind, as it only burns stronger.
• Its pack size is 50% more than the 12-10 stove so i’ll have to think of another way to store the stove or the caldera cone. The 10-12 stove fited in my pot happily with the side winder caldera inferno set, but the packafeather will say “either the cone goes, i or go. We cant co exist in this pot!”
Only time will tell how good it is, but first impressions are quite ok. Not perfect yet, but ok.

Did you ever get a chance to take it out in the field to see how it does?

HJ

[DanielS]

I've made a couple of soda can stoves, I made one of these first: http://www.thesodacanstove.com/stove/

and then one of these: http://www.jureystudio.com/pennystove/penny2.html (with a 5c piece of course!)

For others that have made these - how orange/sooty are your flames? The soda can stove that I made burns with a very orange/sooty flame. I tried adding some water to the metho which made it a little better but not much. The penny (5c) can stove is better, but still a bit orange.

I've tried two brands of metho - some $2 stuff from Bunnings and Diggers brand. Both gave similar results.

[geoffmallo]

Hi DanielS,

My stoves haven't been too orange at all. They have left a little soot on the pot afterwards but I believe this is because of the fuel we have here in Australia.

[attachment=0]IMG_8301.jpg[/attachment]

Attachments

[DanielS]

Thanks Geoff, that might be the next type of stove I try. At least they are cheap to build and a bit of fun!

[wellsy]

you don't need to glue them together if you make the walls of the bottom high enough to fold over the top section. However if you wish to glue them BJ Weld (a two part epoxy obtainable from hardware stores and motor spare parts stores) works very well. I've been told that ordinary silicone sealant (hardware and plumbing suppliers) works well but I haven't tried this out myself; it's supposed to have enough heat resistance for a meths stove.

[Suz]

I made a soda can stove for my 12 day Kungsleden trip in Sweden. I am not gifted in the practicality side, so I made this super simple version: "making alcohol stove with only scissors" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX3dnyieu-U It took about 15 min to make, with basically no skill involved. Worked absolutely fine for the trip, altho no true idea on fuel efficiency (certainly didn't seem to need much to boil 750ml water - maybe 1cm deep filling the bottom). NB that these things degrade after a while (altho mine never died, I chucked it after the trip), apparently the alcohol eats into the aluminium. It was certainly cold some days (altho never below freezing), didn't make any noticeable difference to me with the stove.

The thing weighed next to nothing and I will make another one for my next trip. I did not carry a windshield - I simply built a little rock pile around the stove each night and that protected it from wind.

[ben.h]

Making alcohol stoves (the hobo kind) has been an on and off hobby of mine for a few years. I've experimented with a lot of different designs and materials but always build stoves that require no bonding, soldering or welding. If you're really keen on DIY stoves and want to try building a few different designs then, as someone mentioned earlier, "Zen and the art of the alcohol stove" is a good resource, or you can learn from a master, Tektoba: https://www.youtube.com/user/tetkoba

Here's a thread about one of my stoves from last year (very hot and fast stove but not the most fuel efficient): viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17748

I haven't gone into any detail here but if you're interested in more detail, let me know

Below is a picture of a number of different stove designs I've made. I normally travel with two additional stoves to accompany my Trangia.

An array of stove designs.

Lightweight aluminium ("Solo" drink can) jacketed top-burner with fibreglass wick and priming pan. This stove requires a pot stand (see first image).

Lightweight aluminium ("V" drink can) self priming eCHS (easy Capillary Hoop Stove). This stove requires a pot stand (see first image). This is a fair weather stove as it doesn't handle windy conditions too well. In perfect conditions, this stove is relatively fast and very efficient.

Heavy duty (food can... baked beans or something) self priming jacketed side-burner pressure jet with fibreglass wick. Once up to temperature, the jets ignite and you can place your pot directly on top of the stove to pressurise it. This is my favourite of all the stoves and I have travelled all over Tassie and through Qld and NT using it. Simple, strong, efficient and very fast. The closed nature of the stove means it's good in windy conditions and is its own pot stand.

Middle weight (aluminium coke bottle) self priming pressure jet stove.

Heavy duty (aluminium drink flask) jacketed side-burner pressure jet (requires priming pan).

Heavy duty (food can... baked beans or something) self-priming, pressure jet "Penny Stove". This is the simplest stove of the lot. Underneath the lid is a hole about half the size of a penny. This stove contains no other internals. Once up to temperature, the jets ignite and you can place the lid on top to pressurise it, or indeed use it as a pot stand and have the pot pressurise it.