Walking Poles

[enduro]

Hi All,

A couple of years ago I was saying to myself how fantastic my knees had been after about 16 years of sports, a couple of decades of hiking. Two months later I had shot the cartlige in both knees and now possibly my right ankle.

So it's time for some walking poles ...

I need some highly recommended light poles suitable for hill climbs and particularly the OT for a 6-10 day trek.

I'm 6"2, 85kg and what some would call a slim build. I expect to be carrying a 18kg pack. (fingers crossed on the pack weight!).

Price is no issue for saving my knees.

[casey79]

Black Diamond flick lock Alpine carbon poles. Had a full knee recon in my mid 20's and done multi 12 day plus walks with +25kg packs with out an issue. Cant stress how good they are.

[enduro]

I don't see that product on their website: http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/

Any ideas on the equiv?

How tall are you?

[johnw]

I don't see that product on their website: http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/

Any ideas on the equiv?

Possibly one of these?
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-glbl/shop/mountain/trekking-poles/alpine-carbon-cork
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-glbl/shop/mountain/trekking-poles/alpine-carbon-solo

FWIW I think the flicklock mechanism is better that the twist style that many poles have. I own a pair of older Black Diamond poles, which are good, but they are not very compact and a bit heavy so don''t use them a lot. The above ones are lighter but I'll bet they're expensive.

[Franco]

Enduro
The Carbon Solo would be too short for you (115 cm) but the Cork would do (130cm)
Have a look at the Contour Carbon (135cm) strong for their weight.
Franco

[casey79]

Yep its these ones.
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en ... arbon-cork

I'm a bit over 6 ft and they are fine. Fairly lank build as well. The reasons I got them where how compact they are when collapsed, their weight, I'm not a fan of the twist lock style and the shock absorbers are a bit of a waste in Aust where our softer soil gives natural absorption.

Dave

[photohiker]

One of the things about walking poles is that if they are going to be of benefit you are going to have to put weight on them on each stride. For standard poles, that means a firm grip on the handle, or correct use of the wrist strap. You don't see many people using the wrist straps correctly, so be aware that they are there for more than just retaining the pole! In my experience, the shock absorber stuff on the poles is a waste of time.

There is a discussion to be had regarding weight and the benefits of carbon vs alloy. Personally, I think that although the carbon poles are lighter, they are more fragile in impact situations, and they have little 'give' - so a fall on them may result in the loss of a pole, whereas an alloy pole may bend but not break and still be usable after a little bush panel beating. Worth noting that the weight difference between carbon and alloy poles is in the order of 70-150 grams or about 15% so its not like they are half the weight or anything.

Worth considering Pacer Poles - they have an ergonomic handle that holds your hand in a natural posture, eliminating the requirement for grip or wrist strap. They come in carbon and alloy, and their twist locks seem to work very well (more positive, stronger) compared to other poles I have used.

[pazzar]

I bought my first walking pole a few weeks back, snapped on the first use. Teaches me for buying from crapmandu!! I'll definately have a look at the ones mentioned.

[sthughes]

I've used a few poles and now have the Black Diamond Contour Elliptic ones. They are fantastic and much stronger than any others I have tried. I would not go back to anything other than the flick-lock system. In my opinion for the small weight saving carbon poles are over priced, but we all put a different value on weight so hence can see why some people prefer them.
My only small (actually very small) complaints are:
- In my opinion the 'basket' could be closer to the tip.
- The padding stuff is coming unstitched on the wrist strap, but it's really only cosmetic anyway.

[etrangere]

I bought my first walking pole a few weeks back, snapped on the first use. Teaches me for buying from crapmandu!! I'll definately have a look at the ones mentioned.

Lol crapmandu.............I pissed myself on that one, couldnt think of a better name for them myself.

[sthughes]

Their other nick names I've heard of are Kathmanpoo and Crapmanpoo :p

[enduro]

I have bought a few good things from Krappa's: they make great gaters, excellent merino wool shirts and I purchased a pair of Krappa's own leather boots which were excellent. Certainly need to wade through the "holiday camp" gear to find worthwhild stuff though.

[Ent]

At your height and weight I would seriously consider weight of the pole not as important as you will be using the poles pretty much extended. The BD flick lock system is the only system that has worked for me and strongly advise against twist lock systems. Re Photohiker's comment on the correct use of the straps I can not agree more. The BD ones are much easy to get right as they have a natural correct position but I only got it right thanks for a fellow walker, Penguin, showing me how. Once sorted two poles are just great on open tracks, for rock scrambles and scrub bashes learn to fit them on the pack as they will kill you otherwise.

Cheers Brett

[Eott]

Just like to put ny two cents worth in on this topic. I had minor trouble in my right knee several years ago that made me think about poles, I went to Tassie Tackle and Leanne suggested the Jacko Prolite which weren't that expensive under $100 from memory, these are a twist sort with shock absorbers. I use these on my farm as well as for bushwalking as I don't have a m/bike [by choice]. So I estimate I do at least walk at least 600 k's a year , which means they have done in excess of 2000k's to date and showing little signs of wear. I don't trash them but they get a pretty fair workout on the farm, when you're doing 6 to 7 kph the poles are getting plenty of stress[my speed is easily worked out as the paddocks are either 100m or 200m wide]. From my experience I found that it took a number of weeks before they felt completely natural to use in the first couple of weeks I could feel the strain down the sides of my torso. For me I would describe using poles as like having 4WD in wet slippery conditions and an extra gear in the dry.
I think they take out the pronation stress for the knee and ankle joints and some of the muscle ache as they provide the forward impetus to assist the last bit of push as you take a step.
Having said that you have to get used to the click clack they make as you are walking and they arn't much when going through thick lowlying scub and when boulder hopping. I havn't walked with any other poles but I love these and wouldn't ever leave them at home.

Mark

[Nuts]

Jacko make good poles, the prostar have a nice grip and hand position.
I imagine that Brett has had some 'less than usual' issues with poles. Against 'strong advice'; for the general public I would say that the twist lock poles are perfectly fine for most. I would also suggest that using the wrist straps is 'optional', probably 'correct' not at all 'vital'... Iv'e never bothered, I adjust my hand position on them a lot and just dont feel comfortable 'locked' into them. Probably works the arms a bit more but hey'... I have also see injuries 'caused' by new users strapping their wrists in, getting their feet 'tangled' in them in a stumble and having nowhere to go but down with the pole, unable to drop it.... (saw a shattered wrist as a result last summer)... Anyhow, Just a few thoughts to add.

[under10kg]

Worth considering Pacer Poles - they have an ergonomic handle that holds your hand in a natural posture, eliminating the requirement for grip or wrist strap. They come in carbon and alloy, and their twist locks seem to work very well (more positive, stronger) compared to other poles I have used.

I use pacer poles and can put a lot of weight on the poles with no strain on the wrists due to their unique grip design. I can decend a steepist trail by using 2 poles and jumping down 2 ft drops easily and with no strain on the knees. With a pack weight under 10 kgs I can move very fast going down hills if I am in that mood to walk fast.

I have had some knee problems in the past, by the way and I am 55 years old.

I remember shocking some walkers by turning up on the south coast track at one camp site just as the others were ending breakfast. I think I did a 5 hour chapman time in just over 2 hours. The pacer poles enabled me to decend very fast that morning. I had spend the earlier days walking slow with a woman and once by myself I felt like going for it.

Moving up hills I reduce the length of the poles and take some of the weight on the poles on each step up.

Once you get used to using the full potential of the 2 pacer poles, I would never only use one pole as some do with normal poles.

My only negative with pacer poles is that the weight could be lighter with no reduction in strength with a new lighter grip design.

[Ent]

Jacko make good poles, the prostar have a nice grip and hand position.
I imagine that Brett has had some 'less than usual' issues with poles. Against 'strong advice'; for the general public I would say that the twist lock poles are perfectly fine for most. Anyhow, Just a few thoughts to add.

Um? Four pole users all with the same problem with the twist lock system not holding or jamming or even pulling out on the upward lift. Not just me but others. A quick review of a few "disgruntled" pole users on a few sites similar to this and generally most are happy once swapping to Black Diamond's flick lock system. In fact a disgruntled user put me on to BD system and another person I walk with followed suit shortly after when a pole seperated. Still it is people own money to spend and it cost me two sets of poles before making the switch and most others followed the same pattern of buying and re buying until they found the BD flick lock system and then have not changed. From an engineering perspective take apart a pole you are looking to spend your hard earned money on and look at closely. Does anyone think a friction fit of plastic into aluminium tubing a good idea for long life? But then again some do and that reflects in their avatar nomenclature

As for the cost of BD in Australia they are a rip-off but brought from USA they are actually my cheapest set

Cheers Brett

[Nuts]

An agreeable bunch you may be but still dont add up to a quorum
Dont know if its just the poles? I was talking about the Jacko poles mentioned, they are Twist lock. They are relatively cheap...
We include them as optional on tours. To date there are usually (say) 4/5 that do take them (roughly) x (say) 40 trips they have been used on x (around) 70klms...
So thats..... Well.... a lot of use!

Problems= NIL....!!
Broken poles= None....!!

(My own personal Jacko pole lost a tip a few weeks ago, it has , however, had more use than them mentioned above)

[sthughes]

My first poles were Jacko. Not bad for the price but not near the Black Diamond ones as you wouldn't expect them to be. On the OT Jackos (or pretty much any half decent poles) would be fine. It's not until you get onto really rugged tracks and perhaps more importantly 'off' them that the better poles really shine.

[Nuts]

Perhaps... though the point (perhaps prompted by bretts post) was more (related too) (and for the benefit of) the original poster, jacko make good poles!, at a reasonable price that would more than likely be sufficient for his needs (assuming he intends to use them mostly on tracks (most do?). As for saving his knees, a couple of dogbush sticks would do

[Turfa]

A few years back I did a long distance hike in the US & most people on the trail had hiking poles. I noticed that of all the brands out there that Leki seemed to be the most durable. The Leki twist lock system was very reliable. Cheap poles with twist lock type systems were very prone to problems. Poles do seem to be one of those items were you do get what you pay for.
FWIW. I have a pair of Leki Makalu Ultra-light Titaniums, they have over 5,000km of walking on them now & I have never had a single problem with them. Just a few sets of replacement tips as they wear out & a couple of new baskets.

So, having seen a lot of people do a lot of miles on various brands my (unscientific) observation is that Leki seems to be a good option.

Oh... and I will second the comment about the wrist straps, have to learn how to use them correctly to get the real benefit from poles...and bush sticks just don't do the same thing.

Cheers,

Chris

[Nuts]

Some things bushwalking are just....well...;funny... sometimes I think the wood gets lost among the peckers....
Get a grip...It wasnt very long ago here that Hardly Anyone carried a walking pole. I started to see the odd tip mark on boardwalks and through cushion plants... Now they are everywhere!
Not only are they Necessary!... we need to go through all sorts of turmoil to get something that is ultralight, doesnt waste valuable seconds in adjustment though still maintains the benefits of a well shaped Stick...! (Whats with the weight part anyhow... Its exercise isnt it? The triceps? People carrying poles to compensate for overloaded packs.... doh.... carry Less?)
Sorry, I know..... (My rant... I did say Funny ( ) (Not pathetic )

Buy a pair from chickenfeed and see if they are 'for you' first?

(Actually, reading back, he did say the price was no issue... guessing that the carbon footprint of a wasted chickenfeed pole is probably greater than that of the BD... Yes! buy BD!!....dont know about those dodgy tips though )

[Ent]

Nothing like a good debate on gear to get you warm as we head to winter Poles are interesting little creatures falling into the usual categories of cheap and cheerful and very expensive. The issue I have is nearly all brands seam to have struck a strength/rigidity rating that is below what a taller more solid person needs. Bit like high end road bikes, the more you pay the same strength you get but lighter the weight. Fine if you are in the weight range but no good if you are outside it. Now, weight is a factor of height as a friend has used the same Kathmandu ones I started with with not many problems and weighed a good twenty kilograms more than me. But because they are more hobbit height the poles have less leverage on them so as mentioned not a problem.

I played with most of the twist lock ones from Europe and I would be surprised if the tubing for most of them did not come from the same factory. Some such as the otherwise unmentionable Komperdell ones have a plastic twist lock mechanism that relies on a friction fit and two small indentations to hold it in. Guess what, a decent pull up will cause the pole to come apart. The Italian made Kathmandu ones use an aluminium lock that seams to hold in better.

Basically my experience with poles is every feature that is designed to command a higher price does not work or does not get used. Anti-shock systems design to lock out generally fail. In fact as mentioned a good old fashion bush stick chosen for what a user needs in strength is not that half bad I would be tempted to avoid all the gimmicks and go for as simple as possible working on the principle if it not there then it can not stuff up.

Black Diamond flick lock system breaks the mould a bit and appear at this stage to built to a higher weight loading. Having crashed to the ground and either green stick fractured or chipped a lower arm bone money starts to be forgotten in the pain. Again it is the issue of the type of tracks you walk. Belting along the OT is quite gentle on gear while say Frenchmans is a bit harder and then you get into serious bush bashing and it is a whole new ball game again along with scree scrambling. It is worthwhile seeing at what level of scrambling people getting to Ossa dump their poles. A few carry them all the way to top. The quickness of the flick lock system means you can quickly stow the poles. Though if you are into bush bashing I think your knees are likely young enough not to demand poles. I have noticed at the end of day when I have taken poles my knees feel unaffected by the walk, and yes that is with a light day pack of no more than two or three kilograms.

Cheers Brett

[ninjapuppet]

Evidence to support the use of hiking poles:

http://www.northumbria.ac.uk/browse/ne/uninews/hikerspoles

interesting to note:

“The results present strong evidence that trekking poles reduce, almost to the point of complete disappearance, the extent of muscle damage during a day’s mountain trek,” says Dr Glyn Howatson, who conducted the study.