Son of a Beach wrote:Baeng72 wrote:Son of a Beach wrote:
Really? Can you link to that please?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... st-updates
Asked in that same interview whether or not he would make downloading the tracing app, and traveling with phones, mandatory, Scott Morrison says:
My preference is not to do that, my preference is to give Australians the go of getting it right.
... I don’t want to be drawn on that [making it mandatory], I want to give Australians the opportunity to get it right. That is my objective, that is my Plan A and I really want Plan A to work.
It starts with 'I don't want to....' then an outbreak occurs, and 'well, my hand was forced'. Or maybe I woke up grumpy (and paranoide) today?
Thank you. I agree that would be disturbing.
I don't think he'd have much chance of getting that passed, even if he did make such a decision. But I've been wrong before. Once. Or twice.
gayet wrote:Just turn phone off. That might mean going back to the old way of doing things but depends on how concerned you are about being tracked....
neilmny wrote:gayet wrote:Just turn phone off. That might mean going back to the old way of doing things but depends on how concerned you are about being tracked....
What and potentially miss out on whether or not Joe Blow has had smashed avacado for breakfast............I'm nervous just contemplating that
Warin wrote:I think they will get 40% participation just from those people that use their phones on a frequent basis.
Neo wrote:One reason I still pay cash.
Neo wrote:One reason I still pay cash.
There are some bank transfers/bills and a trail of how much money I withdraw and from where, but not which toothpaste or vegetables I prefer, how much fuel or McCrappy I may consume etc etc.
Mobile phone possession can be used to triangulate your location, in theit simplest form.
Neo wrote:One reason I still pay cash.
There are some bank transfers/bills and a trail of how much money I withdraw and from where, but not which toothpaste or vegetables I prefer, how much fuel or McCrappy I may consume etc etc.
Mobile phone possession can be used to triangulate your location, in theit simplest form.
neilmny wrote:I can't think of any way that the government has invaded my privacy but as for facebook, google and all other "social" platforms....there lies the absolute invasion of privacy and with the assumed consent of all the participants and non participants alike.
Neo wrote:Pleased my mugshot is not on the web to be extracted by AI.
Moondog55 wrote:Neo wrote:Pleased my mugshot is not on the web to be extracted by AI.
It is already if you have a passport or driving/shooters licence
ghosta wrote:There is another issue with the app noone is talking about. It will be useless. Tracing only 40% of contacts who have spent at least 15 mins within 1.5 metres of an infected person does what...finds a few of the easiest persons to trace.
This a sham app designed to make the useless federal government look like they are doing something usefull.
Kuhr wrote:Can we do away with selfish shaming in civil discourse around the Coronavirus.
For context, this has been used by our governments historically (and arguably unjustly) to rob people of their freedoms. It was used to abort or adopt out children born out of wedlock (this almost happened to me in the '70s when I was born), steal a whole generation of indigenous children, shame conscientious objectors who refused the draft, push women out of manufacturing jobs back into the kitchen and raising children after world wars, and the list goes on.
It is reactionary colonial patriarchalism.
Cooperation from a population with a strong 'ned kelly' larrakinism streak is not achieved by shaming them and calling them selfish.
It is going to make them civilly disobedient and defiant.
p.s I am not endorsing civil disobedience. I am just pointing out the likely outcome.
Xplora wrote:Kuhr wrote:Can we do away with selfish shaming in civil discourse around the Coronavirus.
For context, this has been used by our governments historically (and arguably unjustly) to rob people of their freedoms. It was used to abort or adopt out children born out of wedlock (this almost happened to me in the '70s when I was born), steal a whole generation of indigenous children, shame conscientious objectors who refused the draft, push women out of manufacturing jobs back into the kitchen and raising children after world wars, and the list goes on.
It is reactionary colonial patriarchalism.
Cooperation from a population with a strong 'ned kelly' larrakinism streak is not achieved by shaming them and calling them selfish.
It is going to make them civilly disobedient and defiant.
p.s I am not endorsing civil disobedience. I am just pointing out the likely outcome.
I thought I was out of this but feel I have to answer you directly given my views seem to have directly sparked this response. We indeed all share something in common and that is we all have an opinion. You have every right to share yours as do I to not agree with it. I don't see how you equate calling people out for selfish behaviour that endangers the lives of many with what you speak of. Abortion, adoption, stolen generation and so on. Entirely different circumstances. You speak of civil disobedience and then liken Australians to a murder and a thief. Ned Kelly was not a larrakin. Perhaps consider the view of the families of those he killed and robbed. The more civil disobedience we have in this COVID 19 matter, the longer it will take for the rest of us to get out of lockdown. Do you get that? That is selfish and those doing the right thing (IMO) have every right to call it so. Thinking your own desires are more important than the collective good. If you think your own actions will not cause the virus to spread further and everyone else did the same then where would that leave us? Or is it more like there will be enough people doing the right thing (IMO) to make your the selfish actions of a few of little consequence? In other words, people should be allowed their freedom if they believe they are responsible enough to not pick up and spread this virus. I can point out the likely outcome of that also. There are consequences to civil disobedience and in my view those who engage in that behaviour in this matter deserve what they get. Their cause is not just.
At some stage the country will have to come out of lockdown for economic reasons but we need some level of control before that happens. I am hearing Singapore eased up too soon and things are getting worse. I don't have TV so can only read the news when our poor internet allows. What we are doing in this country is working and it has largely bipartisan support. It also has considerable support from the Australian people. I get that it is hard but so is dying or losing a family member or having permanent lung damage because of it. What the authorities are trying to achieve will only work if people stop thinking about themselves and start thinking about others who are suffering. The Australian spirit I like to think of is one that stands by its mates when times are tough and lends a hand to those who need it. Where did that go?
wayno wrote:the problem is , you can tell people to use their common sense but some won't...
Xplora wrote:I thought I was out of this but feel I have to answer you directly given my views seem to have directly sparked this response. We indeed all share something in common and that is we all have an opinion. You have every right to share yours as do I to not agree with it. I don't see how you equate calling people out for selfish behaviour that endangers the lives of many with what you speak of. Abortion, adoption, stolen generation and so on. Entirely different circumstances. You speak of civil disobedience and then liken Australians to a murder and a thief. Ned Kelly was not a larrakin. Perhaps consider the view of the families of those he killed and robbed. The more civil disobedience we have in this COVID 19 matter, the longer it will take for the rest of us to get out of lockdown. Do you get that? That is selfish and those doing the right thing (IMO) have every right to call it so. Thinking your own desires are more important than the collective good. If you think your own actions will not cause the virus to spread further and everyone else did the same then where would that leave us? Or is it more like there will be enough people doing the right thing (IMO) to make your the selfish actions of a few of little consequence? In other words, people should be allowed their freedom if they believe they are responsible enough to not pick up and spread this virus. I can point out the likely outcome of that also. There are consequences to civil disobedience and in my view those who engage in that behaviour in this matter deserve what they get. Their cause is not just.
At some stage the country will have to come out of lockdown for economic reasons but we need some level of control before that happens. I am hearing Singapore eased up too soon and things are getting worse. I don't have TV so can only read the news when our poor internet allows. What we are doing in this country is working and it has largely bipartisan support. It also has considerable support from the Australian people. I get that it is hard but so is dying or losing a family member or having permanent lung damage because of it. What the authorities are trying to achieve will only work if people stop thinking about themselves and start thinking about others who are suffering. The Australian spirit I like to think of is one that stands by its mates when times are tough and lends a hand to those who need it. Where did that go?
johnf wrote:I do note that the people here that have criticised my views have tended to go on the attack with name calling.
It's true I am not an expert myself. But it doesn't mean my argument is not based on science and logic. It would be good to have less of the virtual signalling and more discussion about the flaws in my view that I put forward.
For those that aren't able to look at the substance of what I write and only want to listen to the experts, I refer you to the Professor in today Sydney Morning Herald
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/ope ... 54m8f.html
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