Make the switch to light hiking shoes?

[Rileyr]

Hi all,

Im looking for some input on whether I should splurge and buy a set of light trail runners.

My base weight has been coming down (5-6kg for warmish weather) but my boots are still a set of heavy mid height scarpas weighing in at 840g each! (size 12-13).

The Scarpas have been great in regards to durability and grip; however, I feel that they are slowing me down now that I dont have as much weight on my back.

I did a relatively short hike this weekend and have some tightness/ DOMs down the front of my shin. Its the muscle that lifts the toes. Im fairly convinced that its the weight of the boots as I have been doing a bit of running (in light shoes) and havent experienced this as much.

I suppose I have a few main questions:

1. What are people's general opinion on trail boots vs trail runners?
2. Do the lighter weight hikers out there go for light trail runners?
3. Do trail runners perish rapidly?
4. Are toe or foot injuries more common in light shoes as a result of less protection?
5. Do I need to spend heaps of money on a set of trail runners or are there decent budget options out there?

Any info, opinions or experiences would be greatly appreciated. If the general response is that trail runners are the way to go I will probably head into the city this week and start trying some different kinds on

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[davidf]

Nothing wrong with runners, only boots i own are for crampons. Get whats fits as no.1. No.2 is what are you doing lots of scrambling a tight fit ànd a more flexible sole, lots of flat lòoser and stoiffer. More weight stiffer.^

[Rileyr]

Nothing wrong with runners, only boots i own are for crampons. Get whats fits as no.1. No.2 is what are you doing lots of scrambling a tight fit ànd a more flexible sole, lots of flat lòoser and stoiffer. More weight stiffer.^

Thanks David, thats great info and I wouldnt have thought of it that way. I have been doing a bit of both - maybe a tight fit and somewhat stiff might be the way to go?

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[headwerkn]

1. I err towards them, especially as I’m more often doing trail runs or ‘fast hiking’ than a traditional hike these days.

2. I don’t think so, really comes down to personal preference, your own foot mechanics and the kinds of trails you’re walking/running. I’m a pretty heavy guy (usually not far off 90kg) and used to run in Inov8s almost exclusively which barely weighed 200gm a side, lots of sole flex... great in mud, sand and soft surfaces but eventually started causing me grief with plantar fasciitis on rock and hard pack. Most of my lanky runner friends use Salomons almost exclusively, which traditionally have been a somewhat heavier option.

3. For running, yes, they’ve usually given their best within 500-800km, though we’re talking about the foam and cushioning in the soles.... how the outers hold up is really dependent on what you put them through, and of course the build of the shoe itself. I put a good 700km on my Inov8 X-talons - a very lightweight shoe - before retiring them, and while they were well worn they hadn’t holed or were damaged as such. My current go-tos - Salomon S-Lab Sense Ultras - have 350km on them, about a year old - and are still in great nick... I’ll be using them for the Cradle Ultra, don’t see the point in buying a fresh pair yet. Old-school Salomons (Sense, Speed) have more of a leatherette type upper which is very hard wearing.

4. For running, I find the lack of a rock plate or hard mid-sole protection can cause issues on rocky hard pack. For walking, it’s less of an issue. That said I find the lack of flex in Scarpas et. al. more fatiguing over the course of a day. Most toe issues generally come from trying to run downhill on technical descents when you’re really slamming into the front of your shoes... have never really noticed as issue when walking.

5. Yes and no. Certain brands definitely are cheaper than others... Inov8 are well priced, low $100s generally and I once got a pair of Terraclaws on sale for $50. Saucony Pedigrines are pushing $200, and most Salomons are north of that. Sense Ultras retail for $270, which is a lot thought street price is a bit less. Coming primarily from a running POV where all I care about is what keeps the niggles and issues at bay so I can still do the next race, price quickly becomes irreverent.

Probably the best aspect of trail shoes is that, unlike boots, is that you have lots of options for heel offset, sole flex, foot box width and so forth... often within a single brand’s range. The trick is to figure out what actually works for you best... often that just comes down to trial and error!

[Rileyr]

1. I err towards them, especially as I’m more often doing trail runs or ‘fast hiking’ than a traditional hike these days.

2. I don’t think so, really comes down to personal preference, your own foot mechanics and the kinds of trails you’re walking/running. I’m a pretty heavy guy (usually not far off 90kg) and used to run in Inov8s almost exclusively which barely weighed 200gm a side, lots of sole flex... great in mud, sand and soft surfaces but eventually started causing me grief with plantar fasciitis on rock and hard pack. Most of my lanky runner friends use Salomons almost exclusively, which traditionally have been a somewhat heavier option.

3. For running, yes, they’ve usually given their best within 500-800km, though we’re talking about the foam and cushioning in the soles.... how the outers hold up is really dependent on what you put them through, and of course the build of the shoe itself. I put a good 700km on my Inov8 X-talons - a very lightweight shoe - before retiring them, and while they were well worn they hadn’t holed or were damaged as such. My current go-tos - Salomon S-Lab Sense Ultras - have 350km on them, about a year old - and are still in great nick... I’ll be using them for the Cradle Ultra, don’t see the point in buying a fresh pair yet. Old-school Salomons (Sense, Speed) have more of a leatherette type upper which is very hard wearing.

4. For running, I find the lack of a rock plate or hard mid-sole protection can cause issues on rocky hard pack. For walking, it’s less of an issue. That said I find the lack of flex in Scarpas et. al. more fatiguing over the course of a day. Most toe issues generally come from trying to run downhill on technical descents when you’re really slamming into the front of your shoes... have never really noticed as issue when walking.

5. Yes and no. Certain brands definitely are cheaper than others... Inov8 are well priced, low $100s generally and I once got a pair of Terraclaws on sale for $50. Saucony Pedigrines are pushing $200, and most Salomons are north of that. Sense Ultras retail for $270, which is a lot thought street price is a bit less. Coming primarily from a running POV where all I care about is what keeps the niggles and issues at bay so I can still do the next race, price quickly becomes irreverent.

Probably the best aspect of trail shoes is that, unlike boots, is that you have lots of options for heel offset, sole flex, foot box width and so forth... often within a single brand’s range. The trick is to figure out what actually works for you best... often that just comes down to trial and error!

Thanks headwerkn, thats a very comprehensive answer!

It sounds like I should be looking at making the switch for sure. Im surprised at how many km your getting out of a pair, I would be happy if I see a similar life in mine.

The inov8 shoes look good online, its good to know they can last! I reckon ill be trying them on first to see how they feel. I would like to start at the cheaper end of the spectrum incase it doesnt work out for me, but I think im ready to trade the fatigue from stiff boots for less cussioning!



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[Mark F]

Over 50 years I have gone from Volleys to boots and now trail runners. For me as a walker (never a runner) I currently use Salomon X-Ultras (previously Salomon Synapse) no goretex etc and will never go back to boots. While I love Salomons it is because they fit MY feet. You need to find the brand that works for you. It may take a little time for your feet to adjust to the move from boots. The ankles need to flex up and strengthen. What you will find is that you are far more nimble and better able to place your feet exactly where you want.

Unlike boots I wear mine very loose with a single pair of thin socks. Again this works for me and may work for you but experimentation is the key. Don't feel they have to be tightly laced like a pair of boots.

Avoid waterproof liners - they keep the feet damp and hot which is perfect for blister generation. I do have a Goretex lined pair of mids (Salomon X-Chase) for snow/snowshoeing but that is about all they are used for. I have purchased my last couple of pairs from Wiggle who seem to have very good prices on many of the shoes they carry.

[SergeantMcFly]

I use runners for 90% of my hikes now unless I know I'll have to be kicking in scrub and the such. La Sportiva makes an amazing range of more durable trail runners/hiking shoes such as the Ultra Raptors (non GTX version) and the ones I personally use, the Bushidos. They have enough grip and support/strength on the sides to stand up to the rock kicking and general trail wear while still being an incredibly light option. On the Bushidos I also find the toe cap sufficient enough for the occasional contact with rocks and roots.

Depending on which style of shoe you end up going towards, as well as the trail use out of them (boardwalk, scrub, rock scrambling, etc.) you'll see varying returns on durability. I've burned through a pair of La Sportivas before by using them on a lot of rock scrambling trips which will wear the grippy rubber out more then a manicured trail for example.

If you're looking for doing more of the easier trails, check out the trail options from Pearl Izumi. Similar to the Salomon Sense Pro or Sense Marin style. S-Labs are also popular, but will run you a bit more. For the $199.99 price point on the Bushidos though, I feel you get the best bang for buck out of the ones I've tried so far. Worth a look!

[Rileyr]

Thanks Mark, I'll avoid goretex as I reckon my feet seem to sweat a fair bit actually. Was thinking of getting a pair with some mesh so they can vent better and also dry out faster

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[Mark F]

Be a bit careful of mesh - it has good and bad sides.

Good - free draining and cool for trips with river/creek crossings.
Bad - if too open then grit and sand enters the shoe. Best not used for very sandy walks.

[Rileyr]

Thanks SergeantMcFly. I will certainly look into the La Sportivas on your recommendation. I have been doing a bit of rock scrambling and tougher on shoes kindof trails, so if the Pearl Izumis arent going to hold up to it I would prefer the Sportivas

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[Rileyr]

Be a bit careful of mesh - it has good and bad sides.

Good - free draining and cool for trips with river/creek crossings.
Bad - if too open then grit and sand enters the shoe. Best not used for very sandy walks.

I hadnt considered issues with sand, so im glad you mentioned it.
I think for my first pair ill make the decision mostly based on fit, feel and price. Might be some good boxing day sales on I hope!


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[headwerkn]

I have a pair of Inov8 286GTXs which are a Goretex’d Ultra llightweight ‘boot’, but honestly prefer an open mesh type shoe that gets wet but dries out quicker.

Socks wise I’m loving Injinji knee-length compression toe socks... I know toe socks are an acquired taste but if you can do 64km non-stop and not get a single blister, well that’s worth a few extra minutes getting all your piggies in a row The long length act like a lightweight gaiter too, saving your legs from scratches and whatnot without much weight.

You can get some good lightweight ankle gaiters to help keep the crud out... I have Salomon ones which don’t really work that well... my mate has the Inov8 ones which seem like a much better design.

Really it comes down to just finding a pair that fit and feel suitable and seeing how you go... personally I wouldn’t go anything lower than 6mm heel offset straight up unless you’re already used to low- or no-drop shoes. Otherwise you might find yourself developing weird ankle, Achilles or plantar issues. That said walking is probably a little less stressful than running.

Cheers, Ben.

[Rileyr]

I have a pair of Inov8 286GTXs which are a Goretex’d Ultra llightweight ‘boot’, but honestly prefer an open mesh type shoe that gets wet but dries out quicker.

Socks wise I’m loving Injinji knee-length compression toe socks... I know toe socks are an acquired taste but if you can do 64km non-stop and not get a single blister, well that’s worth a few extra minutes getting all your piggies in a row The long length act like a lightweight gaiter too, saving your legs from scratches and whatnot without much weight.

You can get some good lightweight ankle gaiters to help keep the crud out... I have Salomon ones which don’t really work that well... my mate has the Inov8 ones which seem like a much better design.

Really it comes down to just finding a pair that fit and feel suitable and seeing how you go... personally I wouldn’t go anything lower than 6mm heel offset straight up unless you’re already used to low- or no-drop shoes. Otherwise you might find yourself developing weird ankle, Achilles or plantar issues. That said walking is probably a little less stressful than running.

Cheers, Ben.

Thanks Ben,
It seems fairly unanimous to avoid gtx, which makes that decision easy!

I have been using injinji toe socks for some time now and I also swear by them! I wear 2 pairs of socks and use the toe socks as liners. Ive never thought of getting the long ones to act as gaiters, but like the idea.

I have some thick gaiters from bunnings or somewhere like that, but i dont think they wouldnt work well for shoes. Hopefully I can get a set of those Innov8 gaiters with the shoes.

Ive only ever used boots for hiking and supportive runners for road runs - like brooks ravenas. Therefore, I'll probably be better off not going too thin and unsupportive for my first pair of hiking shoes to avoid any problems as you say. Either way, I will certainly ease my way into them before doing a big hike.


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[Rileyr]

So I went to Paddy's today and walked out with a pair of Scarpa Proton shoes at 50% off

They are the non gtx version, they have a lot of mesh, a fairly thick vibram sole with thick luggs, toe protection and they are very comfy.

They weigh in at 465g per shoe at size 14us or 48eu.

They feel quite supportive and cussioned.

Very keen to get out and see how they go

https://www.scarpa.com/proton


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[Rileyr]

After wearing the Scarpas around the house I realised they were too tight at the toes and were squashing my toes together a bit. Luckily Paddys lets you return the shoes if they havent been outside!

So I took them back, got a refund and found salamon xa pro 3d's were on sale at Mountain Designs.

The Salamons seem to be a much better fit with a wider toe box.

Live and learn haha

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[Neo]

Nice one! I bet you'll love the change from boots.

[racca]

I found even my Salomon a bit tight in the toebox for me as I have a very wide foot. The comfiest shoe I found for my feet are my Merrel Bare Access Trails
Its lovely to wade through a creek and have your feet dry 10 mins later. 0 drop shoes are a revelation if you can get used to it. Only time I put on my boots now is for short distance, scrub bashing type trips.

[slparker]

I found even my Salomon a bit tight in the toebox for me as I have a very wide foot. The comfiest shoe I found for my feet are my Merrel Bare Access Trails
Its lovely to wade through a creek and have your feet dry 10 mins later. 0 drop shoes are a revelation if you can get used to it. Only time I put on my boots now is for short distance, scrub bashing type trips.

I have a pair of the Bare Access too; unbelievably light and pretty grippy. The 0 drop factor, in my opinion, does give better stability or proprioception - I certainly notice the clunkiness when I put more structured trail runners on.

Like you, I wouldn't wear the the Merrells off track though - I wear sturdier trail runners for that caper.

[racca]

I found even my Salomon a bit tight in the toebox for me as I have a very wide foot. The comfiest shoe I found for my feet are my Merrel Bare Access Trails
Its lovely to wade through a creek and have your feet dry 10 mins later. 0 drop shoes are a revelation if you can get used to it. Only time I put on my boots now is for short distance, scrub bashing type trips.

I have a pair of the Bare Access too; unbelievably light and pretty grippy. The 0 drop factor, in my opinion, does give better stability or proprioception - I certainly notice the clunkiness when I put more structured trail runners on.

Like you, I wouldn't wear the the Merrells off track though - I wear sturdier trail runners for that caper.

If you're wearing the Merrells am I right to assume you have a reasonably wide foot too? What trail runners are you using on your offtrack trips?

I did 2 short trips to break in and get use to the merrells, my third trip was a first day 30k hike through a very wet Lamington NP. There was creek crossings galore and constant mud. The two guys I was with had boots on, in camp that night there feet were a soggy mess, mine were fine. And too top it off my shoes were perfectly dry for the next mornings hike out, there's were still wet. I fell in live with those shoes after that trip.

[slparker]

Hi Racca,
I used to wear salomon shoes but they have become somewhat more narrow in their latest iterations and I find that they don't fit me now. I have recently got a pair of La Sportiva Ultra Raptors for both running and walking. They have a fairly substantial rand and more substantial sole and so offer a lot more protection than the merrells. Downside is that they are heavy for a trail runner (but light for a walking shoe/boot) and feel 'clunky' with a higher drop and more substantial sole unit. the grip is excellent though.

In saying that the merrells are great for most of my walking - i shaved off some cleats on the sole so I could fit a gaiter and I have worn them with an overnight pack on alpine rocky tracks a few times - expected bruised feet but didn't get them.

[racca]

Hi Racca,
I used to wear salomon shoes but they have become somewhat more narrow in their latest iterations and I find that they don't fit me now. I have recently got a pair of La Sportiva Ultra Raptors for both running and walking. They have a fairly substantial rand and more substantial sole and so offer a lot more protection than the merrells. Downside is that they are heavy for a trail runner (but light for a walking shoe/boot) and feel 'clunky' with a higher drop and more substantial sole unit. the grip is excellent though.

In saying that the merrells are great for most of my walking - i shaved off some cleats on the sole so I could fit a gaiter and I have worn them with an overnight pack on alpine rocky tracks a few times - expected bruised feet but didn't get them.

Thanks mate. Always looking for something better, but when the inevitable happens and I need to replace the Merrels it may be better the devil you know.

[Mountain Rocket]

I made the switch and won't be going back to boots any time soon (maybe some full grain leather boots for winter, but that would be a luxury). Trouble is finding 'trail runners' that are durable enough for Tassie, they all seem to be made of mesh. I currently have a pair of North Face Storm, which only lasted a handful of trips before both tongues came detached (*&%$#! mesh!). That said I'm still using them for the mean time. If anyone has any recommendations for a lighter shoe style that is more on the durable side, I'm all ears.

[Lamont]

I am looking at (wish I lived in Sydney) the Montbell Palmlands. I can find fback/reviews but I reckon Montbell stuff is first rate. Have a brolly 155gms tough as old boots.