Private property, creeks and crown land laws in QLD

[dis]

Is anyone able to shed some light on QLD property laws and rock hopping up a public creek that ventures into private land?

Recently, I decided to head back to some local falls. After visiting one waterfall, we headed up a tributary in the creek to another waterfall a few hundred meters upstream. Within minutes of being there we were confronted by a very angry landowner (whos property this waterfall apparently resides on) whom yelled, threatened and swore at us and was just extremely angry because we were on his property. Not once did we venture off the actual creek bed.

I have ventured up to this waterfall, numerous times in the past few years without any issues. I am not one for confrontation.

Anyone know more information on these types of issues OR who to contact for further information?

[findbuddha]

Edit: removed as I underestimated the complexity of the situation.

Last edited by findbuddha on Sun 20 Aug, 2017 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[tastrax]

Here is an interesting read for you (NSW)...

https://www.lawanswers.com.au/threads/p ... erty.2468/

maybe check out the fisheries act as well as other property acts.

But in all cases be respectful of the landowner. A call to ask permission can often develop a much better relationship with the owner. Its not always about the law.

[tastrax]

...and a bit more for you

http://www.malenyvoice.com/obiobi/resou ... n-Info.pdf (Out of date)

Last edited by tastrax on Sun 20 Aug, 2017 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[tomh]

Discussion on this has been a regular forum and aus.bushwalking subject for many years and there has never been a definite legal answer because (A) legislation differs from state to state (B) legislation changes over time (that malenyvoice item in the last post is now out of date - for something more recent see https://www.claytonutz.com/knowledge/2010/may/-water-boundaries-in-queensland-the-new-rules-from-may-2010) (C) differences due to when the land title was established.
In other words for the non-legal citizen it's a legal morass and any advice found could easily be wrong and/or out of date unless you get professional and competent legal advice.
Then after all that there is the prospect of encountering unhappy land owners who don't accept your well-researched legal argument.

The answer I would recommend:
(A) FInd the contact number of the occupier of the land you want to cross, usually by contacting the local NPSR ranger station.
(B) Ring occupier, identify yourself, provide your phone no. for possible future need, tell them what you want to do and on what date and ask for permission to cross. If permission not given, thank them for their time and hang up.
I have followed that procedure for many years and had very few knockbacks (two if memory serves me and they had polite reasons). There have been times the occupier has asked for help (finding lost cattle) when walking/climbing to places the occupier seldom goes. Another time coming down from Mt. Mistake the occupier (never met before) had tea, coffee and cake laid out waiting for us all as we neared the house.

[Peaksnik]

This is complicated, as tomh says. You really do need to know what the status of the particular watercourse is.

Find the watercourse using Queensland Globe: http://qldglobe.information.qld.gov.au/
Check out the cadastre overlays. You can see if it is defined by the Water Act and the land titles around it.

Also, if keen:

Water Act 2000: https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/W/WaterA00.pdf

Land Act 1994: https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/L/LandA94.pdf

[cough]

OP, where did the landowner talk to you?

I have encountered him as well while in Tallebudgera Valley - he's a very rude and angry man and cannot be reasoned with. I can understand his frustration, as this area is somewhere that keeps growing in popularity thanks to Instagram and social media . Gorge Falls as far as I know is on public land, however the other unnamed falls are supposedly on his private property - and there is a "NO TRESPASSING" sign hung across the branch of the creek that leads to the other falls.

He's had a go at me before too, but I was well and truly following Tallebudgera Creek and did not go anywhere near his branch of the creek, so they were empty threats for my situation. He then went on some rant about how the Cream Track should never have been allowed and that Tom Tate is a "pig".

He is well known among the Gold Coast Bushwalkers Club as a dangerous angry man who shouldn't be approached and will refuse access to the waterfall supposedly on his land even if you seek permission ahead of time.

[dis]

Thanks for your answers. I understand how it is a complex situation and as noted, is best to try and seek permission before hand.

RE cough, we encountered him at the falls themselves. At the time of the encounter (a couple of weeks ago), we noticed a wire hanging above the creek near the fork but didn't spot a sign so we thought nothing further by it. Having visited the falls on numerous occasions in the past without issue, I never thought this waterfall resided on private land, nor did I realise that walking up a creek could be considered as trespassing. Disappointing to say the least, that such a beautiful waterfall is being denied access.

For anyone else in the Tallebudgera Valley, I would highly recommend staying away from the unnamed falls. An encounter with this man is not pleasant to say the least.

[splutter]

I am concerned about the post by cough dated 20 August and the comments attributed to The Gold Coast Bushwalkers Club. These comments were made by persons unknown to us. They do not reflect the views of the Club and we dissociate ourselves from those comments and the Gold Coast Bushwalkers Club expresses our appreciation for the support we have received from the landowners over many years.
The Gold Coast Bushwalkers Club has always had a good long-term relationship with the landowners concerned. They have always granted us permission to access places on their property and been helpful with their advice. This is a beautiful, pristine area and they are diligent in their efforts to preserve this delicate environment through weed and lantana clearing, and the preservation of rare plants etc. We share their concerns as Gorge Falls are becoming very popular through social media and the impact this may have on the area.
The Gold Coast Bushwalkers Club refutes the comments made and we greatly appreciate the assistance we have been given by the landowners for many years.