July trip finalised.

[Tassieoptom]

Well trip is now set, the three of us will set out on the morning of the 7th July from Cradle. Will be my third full trip, have done parts more often. My oldest friend will do his second full trip, fresh off the back of a few months trekking around South America. And my step son will be an Overland Track Virgin, . Pretty much have the gear sorted and still finalising the food after some interesting advice from my previous topic.

I have tried to keep my pack weight down this time, have had my shattered left knee meniscus removed 10 months ago now but am still a little worried about my right knee. I suffered my first meniscal tear climbing Marion's lookout on my first overland track trip. Hiked out not able to weight bear on my left knee, made for a bit of a slow trip with a swollen knee. Continued hiking over many years turned my simple tear to "meniscal mince" so my doctor called it.

Is there any advice for Marion's lookout with average knees?

Cheers

[north-north-west]

Don't rush.

[stry]

Poles !!!!

[Lizzy]

Horse track

[DanShell]

Getting up to Marions is not bad at all really as you should know. Just take your time and rest often, thats what I do when going up hills...unless the hill is the last stretch before getting back to the car after a few days hard walking, then I power up the hills

[Overlandman]

I try not to stop until I can't see the last place I stopped
I don't feel as bad if I do that.

[MickyB]

I had 3/4 of the meniscus taken out of my right knee about 20 years ago and didn't have any problems with the OT. Generally the only time it gets sore is when its cold so I take a knee brace with me to help keep the area warm. I'd suggest you take a knee brace for each knee - it will at least give you some extra support on your 'good' knee. I agree with NNW and DanShell. Just take your time and rest whenever its starting to get sore (not sure why anyone would want to rush that walk anyway). Sty's suggestion of poles might help as well. They'd give you a bit more balance on the track and help you keep in a straight line (a lot of sideways movements can also make my knee very sore). Obviously you wouldn't be able to use the poles on the last climb to Marions though. Your doctor may also be able to give you some advice.

[Mechanic-AL]

My knees are the first part of me to let me know I,m not as young as I used to be Invariably it is on the downhills that they start complaining so I tend to take the slow and easy approach to any sort of descent.
Uphills,not so bad.

I would love to be doing a winter OLT.
Good luck and I hope the knees hang in there and you have a great time.

AL

[Tassieoptom]

Thanks everyone, I am almost sure that I twisted my knee, tearing my meniscus, climbing with a slightly out of balance pack, and me attempting too large a step. Youthful enthusiasm and arrogance. It has made me slower, more careful, and a user of both poles and knee braces. I do not think I will attempt the stairs from dove lake, the crater lake horse track is, I agree, safer for me. Apart from being the true OT.

[MickyB]

but am still a little worried about my right knee.

Have you had problems with your right knee or is it just lack of confidence and/or fear of injuring it?

I do not think I will attempt the stairs from dove lake, the crater lake horse track is, I agree, safer for me. Apart from being the true OT

Do your knees currently have problems going upstairs? If not you could always 'test them' by going to a local track that has stairs and taking your pack with you. I know everyone is different but my knees are similar to Mechanic-AL's. For me down hill can be an issue but generally have no issues going up.

[Tortoise]

Hey Tassieoptom,

I do not think I will attempt the stairs from dove lake, the crater lake horse track is, I agree, safer for me. Apart from being the true OT.

Just to clarify - the Horse track is further west, going past the Scout hut and Crater Peak. iirc there are some sizeable steps in places. The OLT goes past Crater Lake, which sounds what you mean. Good choice.

I have tried to keep my pack weight down this time

This could make a big difference to your trip and to future walking opportunities.
Is there's anything else at all that you can cut back on - sharing whatever you can with your fit trekking friend etc?

I found food was where I could cut back on a lot of weight. E.g. protein powder as extra/emergency food (and saving any food from day to day that I don't actually need at the time), not having so many bells and whistles, reducing the fuel I need by going to rehydration mode (bring to boil and let sit) instead of actual cooking.

While I do feel it if someone nearby is having steak and onions, or a nice red wine , I'm having such a great time being out there that I really don't need fancy stuff. I can have it at home instead, while I think about my next walk. I've realised that my overall enjoyment of bushwalking (now and in the future, with less injuries/wear and tear) is improved by not bringing flash food. Some think differently, of course...

[Tassieoptom]

Thanks MickeyB, I have had sore right knee after a day's hike, but never an effusion or meniscal tear. So just looking at harm risk minimalisation strategies, protective more than fear. And my Knees are generally ok on stairs really, definitely more so since my operation last year. And yes downhill is more of an issue.

Tortoise, so it seems I am still in the dark on the horse track, will have to have another look at my maps.
And yes there is a mix of dehydrated and minimal hydrated food. I will see what weight we can share around, my pack will be between 13-15kgs at this stage. Which will be the lightest I have ever had for a multi day walk of this level.

[corvus]

Thanks MickeyB, I have had sore right knee after a day's hike, but never an effusion or meniscal tear. So just looking at harm risk minimalisation strategies, protective more than fear. And my Knees are generally ok on stairs really, definitely more so since my operation last year. And yes downhill is more of an issue.

Tortoise, so it seems I am still in the dark on the horse track, will have to have another look at my maps.
And yes there is a mix of dehydrated and minimal hydrated food. I will see what weight we can share around, my pack will be between 13-15kgs at this stage. Which will be the lightest I have ever had for a multi day walk of this level.

G'day Tassieoptom,
Lucky you doing a Winter OLT walk, are you prepared for Snow especially at the start ?
The Horse Track was used because that was the least steepest access to the Mountain so other than a very small section all is an easy up and down stroll to the Plateau
One thing concerns me however is that you estimate your starting weight 13-15 kg for a 5 /6 day walk in Winter so I guess you have a couple of "pack horse helpers" as there is no way I could contemplate a Winter OLT with an overnight /weekend pack weight .
Just saying

[Tassieoptom]

Hi Corvus, thanks for the comments, I am a little worried about the weight too. But you know how the final weight never quite matches the estimated weight, . I have upgraded a fair bit of my gear for lighter options, and have paired down my non essential gear, I.e. No camera which saves a fair bit. What sort of pack weight would you consider normal? Certainly prepared for snow and ice, have done trips in August, September and October, but never July. There has been lots of snow every trip so far.

Cheers.

[corvus]

Hi Corvus, thanks for the comments, I am a little worried about the weight too. But you know how the final weight never quite matches the estimated weight, . I have upgraded a fair bit of my gear for lighter options, and have paired down my non essential gear, I.e. No camera which saves a fair bit. What sort of pack weight would you consider normal? Certainly prepared for snow and ice, have done trips in August, September and October, but never July. There has been lots of snow every trip so far.

Cheers.

G'day Tassioptom ,
Being that you are experienced especially in snow wonder why you expect 15kg at maximum weight will work for a 5/6 day bushwalk pack in Winter .
A break down would help please

[Strider]

Does that weight include food?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Tassieoptom]

Does that weight include food?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Includes 1/2 the food so far. will post more on weights after i repack on the weekend. I have a mix but include Breakfasts- made up quick oats, nuts, coconut, dried fruits mix, lunches - soups and homemade croutons, Flat breads, cheese, salami and salmon/Tuna, instant hommus. Dinners- mix of Strive meals, dahl, continental choritzo, dried tomatoes, dried mushrooms, Dried mix veges, reheat precooked rice mixes powdered coconut cream. Snacks - trail mix, museli bars, some chocolate, etc.

G'day Tassioptom ,
Being that you are experienced especially in snow wonder why you expect 15kg at maximum weight will work for a 5/6 day bushwalk pack in Winter .
A break down would help please

Corvus, thanks for your advice, i will do a more detailed breakdown this weekend, am thinking i will need more gas than i have planned for so will add some more canisters too.

[canthardlywait]

Well trip is now set, the three of us will set out on the morning of the 7th July from Cradle. Will be my third full trip, have done parts more often. My oldest friend will do his second full trip, fresh off the back of a few months trekking around South America. And my step son will be an Overland Track Virgin, . Pretty much have the gear sorted and still finalising the food after some interesting advice from my previous topic.

Cheers

Hey Tassieopton, I will also be starting the walk on this date with 3 others. Super excited for the trip, everything is sorted. We are looking at doing it over 6 nights, weather depending obviously!

[corvus]

Lucky Beggars wish it was me

[Tassieoptom]

G'day Tassioptom ,
Being that you are experienced especially in snow wonder why you expect 15kg at maximum weight will work for a 5/6 day bushwalk pack in Winter .
A break down would help please [/quote]


Gear list with weights so far.

Pack Weight
Waterproof 60L pack 2.03kg
Large sea to summit dry pack liner 362g
Total 2.365kg

Shelter
Tent eurus 2 person 4 season
Total 3.430kg

Sleeping
Down sleeping bag -8 rating, Silk liner, waterproof compression sac total 1.850kg
MD pro 3.8 mat 3.2 R 680g
Inflatable pillow 49g
Total 2.579kg

Cooking
Cup 70g
Spork 11g
Opinel knife 57g
Plate 112g
Scourer 5g
Jetboil 418g
Stabiliser 28g
2 x 100g gas cyls 399g
Total 1.095kg

Clothing
Gortex long jacket 652g
Berghaus deluge rain over pants 347g
Down jumper 443g
Spare fleece 214g
Fleece pants 277g camp
Heavy thermal top 237g camp
Heavy thermal bottoms 182g
Light thermal top L/S 130g
Light thermal top S/S 90g
Hat 90g
Beanie 45g
Windstopper gloves 65g
Light gloves 26g
2 Spare thermal undies 147g
3 spare socks 268g
Neck gaiter 50g
Total 3.263 kg

Extra stuff
Head torch 118g
Sea to summit dry rubbish bag 125g
Spare batteries 3x aaa 36g
Stuff sacs 40g
Small dry bag 80 g
Clips 20g
Rope 50g
Total 469g

Personal hygiene
Deodorant 69g
Chapstick 12g
Toothpaste 30g
Toothbrush 8g
Ear plugs 1g
Toilet spade 142g
Prescription sunglasses +case 110g
Towel 90g
Toilet paper 112g but I think I will swap for several tissue packs as suggested
Alcohol hand sanitizer 40g
Total 614g

Electronics
iPhone 121g
Solar battery 126g
Cable 10g
Small Dry bag 20g
Total 277g

Running total 14.092kg

Note that there will be 2 other walkers each with a burner, gas cyls, pots etc. one other walker will also have a two person tent, and the other will have the First aid kit. I will share most meals with the junior walker, my stepson. And as such we will most likely share the food out to balance the weight.
I have not included weights of the clothes I intend to wear daily, such as gaiters, my fave earth sea sky Taslan long pants, I prefer to walk with these as they are mostly water and wind proof, quick drying and tend to regulate my leg temperatures better than thermals and shorts. My fave Patagonia regulator R2 fleece, and the goretex shell that I did include. And a merino first layer long sleeve.
Please suggest deletions and/or additions cheers.

[corvus]

G'day Tassioptom ,
Being that you are experienced especially in snow wonder why you expect 15kg at maximum weight will work for a 5/6 day bushwalk pack in Winter .
A break down would help please

Gear list with weights so far.

Pack Weight
Waterproof 60L pack 2.03kg
Large sea to summit dry pack liner 362g
Total 2.365kg

Shelter
Tent eurus 2 person 4 season
Total 3.430kg

Sleeping
Down sleeping bag -8 rating, Silk liner, waterproof compression sac total 1.850kg
MD pro 3.8 mat 3.2 R 680g
Inflatable pillow 49g
Total 2.579kg

Cooking
Cup 70g
Spork 11g
Opinel knife 57g
Plate 112g
Scourer 5g
Jetboil 418g
Stabiliser 28g
2 x 100g gas cyls 399g
Total 1.095kg

Clothing
Gortex long jacket 652g
Berghaus deluge rain over pants 347g
Down jumper 443g
Spare fleece 214g
Fleece pants 277g camp
Heavy thermal top 237g camp
Heavy thermal bottoms 182g
Light thermal top L/S 130g
Light thermal top S/S 90g
Hat 90g
Beanie 45g
Windstopper gloves 65g
Light gloves 26g
2 Spare thermal undies 147g
3 spare socks 268g
Neck gaiter 50g
Total 3.263 kg

Extra stuff
Head torch 118g
Sea to summit dry rubbish bag 125g
Spare batteries 3x aaa 36g
Stuff sacs 40g
Small dry bag 80 g
Clips 20g
Rope 50g
Total 469g

Personal hygiene
Deodorant 69g
Chapstick 12g
Toothpaste 30g
Toothbrush 8g
Ear plugs 1g
Toilet spade 142g
Prescription sunglasses +case 110g
Towel 90g
Toilet paper 112g but I think I will swap for several tissue packs as suggested
Alcohol hand sanitizer 40g
Total 614g

Electronics
iPhone 121g
Solar battery 126g
Cable 10g
Small Dry bag 20g
Total 277g

Running total 14.092kg

Note that there will be 2 other walkers each with a burner, gas cyls, pots etc. one other walker will also have a two person tent, and the other will have the First aid kit. I will share most meals with the junior walker, my stepson. And as such we will most likely share the food out to balance the weight.
I have not included weights of the clothes I intend to wear daily, such as gaiters, my fave earth sea sky Taslan long pants, I prefer to walk with these as they are mostly water and wind proof, quick drying and tend to regulate my leg temperatures better than thermals and shorts. My fave Patagonia regulator R2 fleece, and the goretex shell that I did include. And a merino first layer long sleeve.
Please suggest deletions and/or additions cheers.[/quote]

Looks good as a choice of gear and the base weight would be around the same as mine for the same trip ,have you considered camp shoes (crocks) as it is nice to get the boots off for a while, I would substitute the deodorant for some wet wipes .
Having experienced a few interesting July trips up over the Cradle Plateau I would take my Snow Shoes JIC and me not being familiar with the Jet boil and how it performs in very cold conditions I would take an extra gas can .
It has been in my experience that "dried"food can take a bit longer to re hydrate in colder weather so may need more boiling water also I tend to need more fats like salami and cheese and I never leave home for a walk without Glucodin pure Glucose energy tablets 24 kj per tablet
That said enjoy your Trip don't forget the Pic's and I do wish it was me doing it

[Travis22]

Looks like a pretty standard set of weights for the 'usual' items one would expect.

I think the initial hightened interest in the weight was because of the assumption that '15kg' was your starting weight in full. As shown by your detailed list now you dont have any food or water weights included in there so i dont think there will be any more cause for alarm.

I too look forward to some photos on your return! It should be an amasing adventure for your group.

Travis.

[Tassieoptom]

Thanks Corvus,

I have been looking for my camp boots, but apparently the Dog has eaten them, so new cheap crocs it is, Shiploads here i come. Will do on the extra gas. On the extra fats side I have got salami, chorizo, cheese etc as well as coconut cream powder to add to my meals. I have not heard about the glucodin so will definitely get some of them, chemist I assume. Two groups of year 9 girls from my Wife's school get back from doing the OLT this week, will get some gossip on the conditions from them. Cheers

[corvus]

Thanks Corvus,

I have been looking for my camp boots, but apparently the Dog has eaten them, so new cheap crocs it is, Shiploads here i come. Will do on the extra gas. On the extra fats side I have got salami, chorizo, cheese etc as well as coconut cream powder to add to my meals. I have not heard about the glucodin so will definitely get some of them, chemist I assume. Two groups of year 9 girls from my Wife's school get back from doing the OLT this week, will get some gossip on the conditions from them. Cheers

G'day Tassieoptom,
For a nice big hit of carbs protein and fat I have found the All Natural Bakery Fruit and Nut Oat Slice + Hans Striker mini salami and at least 3 Processed Creamy Spread Cheese-portion triangles at 168 g including packaging ,is a nice easy walking lunch .

[icefest]

Ditch the solar battery, there will be negligible sunshine during your walk.

Take 225g canister instead.

Ditch the jetboil stand, ditch the scourer (use sand).

Ditch the rubbish bag (use the bags you took food in.

That's another half kilo saved.

[Nuts]

Yeah, there's a lot of weight could be saved, perhaps with some hassle and expense I guess, the tent, pack and s'bag are obviously heavyweights..

What's left of my right Meniscus is somewhere mid-thigh.. as I understand the mechanism of damage, it's not particularly any given strain /loading (mine eventually gave way in the kitchen..) more concern over limiting further chronic damage. Poles are great, crabbing downhill works, but it really is the minimum weight compromises that have helped me most (so far).

[Tortoise]

ditch the scourer (use sand)

Ditch the rubbish bag (use the bags you took food in.

Replace scourer with a small piece of mesh bag that onions or oranges come in. <1 g Pros: Quite useful if no sand. Shakes dry and food scrap-free.


+1 to rubbish bag. If it's not been said already, ditch as much excess food packaging as you can before the walk. My rubbish fits into a ziplock sandwich bag that has night one's dinner in it ( have more zip locks from subsequent dinners on longer walks). Other people's rubbish, well that's another story! I need a bigger plastic bag for that.

Last edited by Tortoise on Mon 22 Jun, 2015 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Tortoise]

Gear list with weights so far.

Large sea to summit dry pack liner 362g

Sleeping
Down sleeping bag -8 rating, Silk liner, waterproof compression sac total 1.850kg

Cooking
Plate 112g
Scourer 5g

Clothing
3 spare socks 268g

Extra stuff

Sea to summit dry rubbish bag 125g

Personal hygiene
Deodorant 69g
Toothpaste 30g

Toilet spade 142g

That large pack liner is very heavy. Mine is 145g - obviously not as strong, but it's doing fine so far. On longer trips, I found there were plenty of things that didn't need to be inside it - like my rain gear, lunches etc.

A lighter alternative is a heavy duty garden rubbish bag for a couple of bucks. If you're not planning on swimming rivers, I don't think you need all the dry bags you're planning to use. (On the other hand, I do use a sil nylon pack cover.)

I no longer use a compression sac for my sleeping bag or quilt. I use a lighter nylon one.

Plate: use a lighter plastic bowl if you can't eat out of your pot.

Sox: I don't think you need 3 spare pairs. I've dropped down to one spare pair that stays dry for the evenings/nights. The inevitably wet pair gets washed out when necessary (kept warm in a bag in the foot of my sleeping bag if they can't be dried.

Toss the toilet spade. If you're walking with the others, it's something you can share. You'll have toilets night and morning, so hopefully won't need it anyway. I take a small snow peg (40g). It's an extra tent peg if I need it, and so far I haven't had any trouble with it bending. Have had 2 plastic trowels snap over the years.

Replace toothpaste and deodorant with bicarb soda in a ziplock snack bag. Or take a micro-toothpaste from a plane trip etc. Try out the bicarb with a big workout before you go if you want. I now use it instead of deodorant all the time (ta, NNW).

That'll help a bit.

[Tassieoptom]

That large pack liner is very heavy. Mine is 145g - obviously not as strong, but it's doing fine so far. On longer trips, I found there were plenty of things that didn't need to be inside it - like my rain gear, lunches etc.

A lighter alternative is a heavy duty garden rubbish bag for a couple of bucks. If you're not planning on swimming rivers, I don't think you need all the dry bags you're planning to use. (On the other hand, I do use a sil nylon pack cover.)

I no longer use a compression sac for my sleeping bag or quilt. I use a lighter nylon one.

Plate: use a lighter plastic bowl if you can't eat out of your pot.

Sox: I don't think you need 3 spare pairs. I've dropped down to one spare pair that stays dry for the evenings/nights. The inevitably wet pair gets washed out when necessary (kept warm in a bag in the foot of my sleeping bag if they can't be dried.

Toss the toilet spade. If you're walking with the others, it's something you can share. You'll have toilets night and morning, so hopefully won't need it anyway. I take a small snow peg (40g). It's an extra tent peg if I need it, and so far I haven't had any trouble with it bending. Have had 2 plastic trowels snap over the years.

Replace toothpaste and deodorant with bicarb soda in a ziplock snack bag. Or take a micro-toothpaste from a plane trip etc. Try out the bicarb with a big workout before you go if you want. I now use it instead of deodorant all the time (ta, NNW).

That'll help a bit.

I have replaced my old tent this morning with a Wilderness Equipment Second Arrow, 1.86 kg, an alternate spade 42g, will look at the bicarb, will drop the spare socks to 2 as a compromise, will look for a lighter bowl, might keep the pack liner(Bomb proof), will ditch the scourer for onion bag, will consider the rubbish bag, have replaced canisters with larger, and ditched the stand, and will consider swapping the compression sac for the sleeping bag now i have a smaller lighter tent, more space in my pack.

[stry]

The list makes demonstrates just how much lighter things like sleeping bags and tents have become. Unfortunately weight savings on either are not cheap.

Just endorsing a couple of suggestions:

1/ You've done it
2/ Ditch the plate and eat out of the pot.
3/ Ditch the deodorant.
4/ DONT substitue flimsy tissues for toilet paper. You seem to have allowed for one roll, and that would last me for 8 days. One area where running out is no fun, despite the thread about substitutes.
5/ You've done it
6/ I don't bother with any of those electronics, although perhaps the I-Phone could be handy.
7/ No waterproof shell mitts ?
8/ No PLB, or is someone else carrying one (One in the group should suffice)
9/ I have no experience with the Jetboil, but as a solo walker, my 800mil pot and top of the canister stove have a combined weight of well under 200grams.
10/ You've done it
11/ Clothes list looks pretty heavy, but personally, I wouldn't want to be cold. You are the best one to decide, but it may be worth reviewing the clothes.
12/ You've done it