How close is too close - or what does camping mean?

[TerraMer]

A Wicked Camper on the Canning Stock Route!!??
Is there anywhere those $(^!*# things won't go!
I call them Dick 'ed Campers.

Sorry no i should have been clearer on that, this incident happened to him while traveling up from Melbourne. That incident occurred at Palm Springs just out of Halls Creek prior to heading down the CSR.

Id highly doubt any Wicked Campers could survive the CSR, i have seen them in some amazing place but definitely not there.

Travis.

It should be mentioned that Wicked Campers are actually forbidden to go on unsealed roads, even their most expensive insurance won't cover that. They're rubbish really, if you see somebody in one, he's got no clue what he's doing. Jucy are the same price, with better insurance and (a lot) better vehicles.

Here's a camper that didn't quite make the CSR. Photo taken by Gaynor Schoeman who just completed a solo unassisted 1657km walk of the full Canning Stock Route after recovering from a broken back. I think Gaynor managed to find plenty of solitude out there

[TerraMer]

[urlhttps://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=155478537979858&set=a.145386212322424.1073741842.100005531372947&type=3&theater][/url]
The image hasn't worked so here's the link

[Strider]

You need to right click and Copy Image URL

[Travis22]

Ive been following her walk closely, someday id love to do the same thing.

I didnt recall seeing any Wicked Camper photos in her travel shots so i just went through them again and i think i have found the image your referring to, a 4wd van with the note written on the windscreen by its owner stating his intentions to return and collect it etc....?

Travis.

The van Gaynor passed while walking the CSR.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1150540_155478537979858_293864233_o.jpg

[TerraMer]

I know what you mean about camping in solitude while out in the "wilderness".
When I head out for multi-day and multi-week hikes I like to find quite places to camp.
I recogonise the look in other hikers eyes when they see me come into "their" camp near the end of the day. with a touch of

It is also very enjoyable to walk straight through a relatively quiet camp like an alpine hut site with a group already set up for the night and find somewhere perfect for a 1 man tent further down the track.

I now do a bit of kombi camping so I like to respect other campers and park further away so my whizbang door doesn't wake them when nature calls through the night. I have been known to drive through several campgrounds before finding one suitably quiet with a nice atmosphere.

For some years I literally lived in my tent, I had a car for some of it but I was a veritable vagrant. Finding quiet places to camp/live wasn't easy and I occassionally found myself in confrontations with inconsiderate drunks. More often than not I would pack up my tent and move to avoid the hassles, even in the middle of the night when the neighbours started getting offensive. I have never had this problem out hiking though.

When travelling for 6 months through Europe and Africa I took my tent in my pack but after looking at a few campgrounds I decided it would be cheaper and much more comfortable to stay in hostels and pensions. Just too crowded. Gave me some insight into why international backpackers often camp so close to us in Australia, it is perfectly normal for them to cross guy ropes with their new neighbours.

[TerraMer]

Ive been following her walk closely, someday id love to do the same thing.

I didnt recall seeing any Wicked Camper photos in her travel shots so i just went through them again and i think i have found the image your referring to, a 4wd van with the note written on the windscreen by its owner stating his intentions to return and collect it etc....?

Travis.

The van Gaynor passed while walking the CSR.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1150540_155478537979858_293864233_o.jpg

That's the one! No, not a wicked but just another that didn't make it, lucky for the driver they knew what they were doing and had assistance.

Gaynor is amazing! It would be an awesome trek on foot solo. You would need to be very comfortable with weeks or months of solitude with just a few 4WD encounters and only 1 community enroute. I loved the part where she pulled up the rouge bull camel by talking to it
It was a shame Pam didn't make it through but I hope she has another shot at it.

[GPSGuided]

Here's a camper that didn't quite make the CSR.

No surprise given how beat up some of those vehicles are before the drive. Bush mechanics can only go so far.

[dugsuth]

In fact I find the question of whether I will get a quiet campsite tonight to be one of the most stressing issues of my day walking in many cases.

So glad I'm not the only one!

[Lizzy]

Years a ago I was camping on one of the Greek Islands in the off season- I was literally the only one in this camp ground. Late at night a couple of guys come and pitch their tent next to mine so close we could have shared tent pegs. Then they began to snore. I got up and moved my tent in the middle of the night. Bet they were suprised in the morning!!

[phan_TOM]

Go to a long empty beach, walk for 500m take your spot. I guarantee the next person to show up will come and sit within 20m. People are very strange...

I find busting out with some nude yoga usually helps to maintain some personal space

So; what is considered a minimum common courtesy in camping next to other people? Distance, space, noise etc. And how do we define the difference between wilderness camping and social experience?
Steve

Like others have said it all comes down to the individual or individuals involved. Some people are gregarious, out for a fun time or party and others are looking for a bit of solitude/quiet & some introspection and just enjoying time in nature. I know I personally lean toward the latter but I go group camping with some friends once or twice a year and enjoy the social interaction that comes with it (I do try to pitch my tent in a quiet corner though so I can sneak off ). If I had more time to go camping I'd probably tolerate more of the social stuff but because I only manage to get out once a month at best I'd rather spend the time by myself, in nature, enjoying all that it has to offer.

My tactic, either when car camping or backpacking at a site that has potential for more than one tent setup, is to find a corner and then make my 'footprint' as large as humanly possible With the car kit I set the tent back from the corner to claim some space on that side, and a view of the bush, and then setup a decent sized tarp on the other side and then park the car on as much territory as possible! Seems to work most of the time, or I just do some nude yoga

[neilmny]

I can see how the nude yoga would work.....unless Fatcanyoner and his mates
turned up... you'd end up in a veritable commune

[phan_TOM]

yeah I hadn't though of that, it's either going to scare people off or it's going to get very awkward!

[GPSGuided]

Haha! Just don't start a fire you can't put out!

[madmacca]

When I'm the second one into a campsite, I'll normally pitch my tent a fair way away, but then walk over and introduce myself. Sort of give people the option if they want their privacy (or a buffer zone if they are noisy), but am also prepared to sit down and be social for a while.

[Eremophila]

Sorry this will be long-winded but I'm compelled to share this story.

Driving south from Alice Springs one holiday season, wanted to get away after work so drove for a few hours then pulled over in a VERY large wayside stop, south of Marla I think it is. It's set a long way back from the highway and is a large square gravelled area, I reckon you could get 20 caravans in there without a problem. We threw our swag on the ground around 11.30 and were almost asleep when one of those Britz hi-top campers turned up, did a lap of the area and... you guessed it... parked very close by. Around 3 car lengths, if that. It felt mighty uncomfortable.

The driver was obviously a city person who hadn't used the camper before, he was a big fella too and spent some time thumping and thudding around trying to get the bed folded down. There was lots of cursing and huffing and puffing. After some considerable length of time he decided to sleep across the front seats. And put the radio on. At this stage I let him know in no uncertain terms to turn the *blessed* thing off, then wondered if he was perhaps a Wolf Creek-type character who might come over and butcher us in our swag.

After about 30 seconds the radio went off. Then followed a lengthy and unabashed farting session, and much tossing and turning and harumphing as he tried in vain to get comfortable.

Finally HE gets to sleep. And snores, even louder than the farts.

We did wake him with a rather loud blast of the horn as we departed at 5.30am

[Happy Pirate]

When I'm the second one into a campsite, I'll normally pitch my tent a fair way away, but then walk over and introduce myself. Sort of give people the option if they want their privacy (or a buffer zone if they are noisy), but am also prepared to sit down and be social for a while.

That sounds like about the best rule of courtesy at a campsite. That's about how I try to do it too.
But I admit I once did a bit of a 'nude yoga parade' (well undies actually) and simulated big farty noises around my campsite to 'encourage' people to exercise the same courtesy.
Steve

[madmacca]

And put the radio on. At this stage I let him know in no uncertain terms to turn the *blessed* thing off.

After about 30 seconds the radio went off. Then followed a lengthy and unabashed farting session, and much tossing and turning and harumphing as he tried in vain to get comfortable.

See, he had the radio on for a reason.

[north-north-west]

It is also very enjoyable to walk straight through a relatively quiet camp like an alpine hut site with a group already set up for the night and find somewhere perfect for a 1 man tent further down the track.

Yer, that's what I do - what I did the one and only night on the Larapinta that I set up anywhere near anyone else - straight through the Wallaby Gap campground, down the road about 100m, pitch out on the low ridge, with a wonderful view while the others had nothing to look at but each other.
Camped outside Waterfall Gorge as I got there pretty late in the day, and on the way through early nest morning the damn place is overflowing with walkers. *shudder* Horrible. You'd be better off camping up on the ridge, there are some lovely spots up there.

And then at Hugh Junction, pick out a campsite on the edge of the camping area, leave the gear and go off for a wander to the waterhole at the top of the gorge, and get back to find some moron setting up as close to my chosen spot as possible, even though there were far batter sites around.
I just shoved the few loose bits back in the pack and moved further downstream. A rough site but at least there wasn't anyone there.
But most of the time I make a point of not camping at formal sites, to get away from the ravening hordes.

[corvus]

It is also very enjoyable to walk straight through a relatively quiet camp like an alpine hut site with a group already set up for the night and find somewhere perfect for a 1 man tent further down the track.

Yer, that's what I do - what I did the one and only night on the Larapinta that I set up anywhere near anyone else - straight through the Wallaby Gap campground, down the road about 100m, pitch out on the low ridge, with a wonderful view while the others had nothing to look at but each other.
Camped outside Waterfall Gorge as I got there pretty late in the day, and on the way through early nest morning the damn place is overflowing with walkers. *shudder* Horrible. You'd be better off camping up on the ridge, there are some lovely spots up there.

And then at Hugh Junction, pick out a campsite on the edge of the camping area, leave the gear and go off for a wander to the waterhole at the top of the gorge, and get back to find some moron setting up as close to my chosen spot as possible, even though there were far batter sites around.
I just shoved the few loose bits back in the pack and moved further downstream. A rough site but at least there wasn't anyone there.
But most of the time I make a point of not camping at formal sites, to get away from the ravening hordes.

Perhaps the "moron" was a bit like you and wanted to be less close to other human beings with just as much right to be there as you ??

[Strider]

Corvus are you suggesting they are both morons?

[GPSGuided]

There's nothing wrong to being a moron! LOL

[corvus]

Strider,
In my opinion we are all " Jock Tamson's Bairns" and as such have equal space here and I do get a bit p1ssed off with those who wish to be elitist ,superior and denigrate others as morons for no reason other than daring to camp near them .
corvus

[Strider]

Had to google that one but I totally agree with you

[wayno]

if you dont want people crowding you out at campsites. then go off track and camp in the bush. face it at a campsite you have no control where people camp, you'vre going to come across peole with different attitudes to you eventually at acampsite. if they try to be sociable and you don't want to be then there could be a problem....

[north-north-west]

Perhaps the "moron" was a bit like you and wanted to be less close to other human beings with just as much right to be there as you ??

Then why, with a dozen tentsites available, did he chose the closest possible spot to where I'd left my gear?

[GPSGuided]

Then why, with a dozen tentsites available, did he chose the closest possible spot to where I'd left my gear?

Because you most likely chose the best spot (I wouldn't expect anything less from you). If he thinks similar to you and is one who doesn't worry about personal space, then it's logical he'll pick the tent site next to you. This is similar to taking a seat in a movie theatre where most would congregate to the centre for best visual and audio effect. If you settle at a site next to the dunny in the first place, I would bet you won't find the next camper coming close to you.

[perfectlydark]

Then why, with a dozen tentsites available, did he chose the closest possible spot to where I'd left my gear?

Because you most likely chose the best spot (I wouldn't expect anything less from you). If he thinks similar to you and is one who doesn't worry about personal space, then it's logical he'll pick the tent site next to you. This is similar to taking a seat in a movie theatre where most would congregate to the centre for best visual and audio effect. If you settle at a site next to the dunny in the first place, I would bet you won't find the next camper coming close to you.

by default i would consider the next best spot to be furthest from wherever the other camper is

[GPSGuided]

by default i would consider the next best spot to be furthest from wherever the other camper is

I personally agree. But we are all individuals! Yes we are!

[Happy Pirate]

Strider,
In my opinion we are all " Jock Tamson's Bairns" and as such have equal space here and I do get a bit p1ssed off with those who wish to be elitist ,superior and denigrate others as morons for no reason other than daring to camp near them .
corvus

if you dont want people crowding you out at campsites. then go off track and camp in the bush. face it at a campsite you have no control where people camp, you'vre going to come across peole with different attitudes to you eventually at acampsite. if they try to be sociable and you don't want to be then there could be a problem....

So Corvus & Wayno;
I suspect I'm just taking your easy bait here...
but before I match rant for rant I want to stress we are talking about people who have a choice of non-encroachment and choose otherwise. It's a matter of sensitivity and particularly of empathy (not just of others but of the whole location).

You're telling me that I'm elitist because I get pissed off when people choose to encroach my space and you say that you get pissed off by people who get pissed off when thus encroached but that imply you are not elitist?
It sounds to me like we are both being the same kind of elitist, self-righteous grumpy old men here.

But guys (Corvus in particular) you do present quite a cultural-relativist position that (like all post-modernist mumbo-jumbo) needs to be demolished by common sense and your posts smacked of such an excess of political correctness they seemed devoid of consideration of realistic situations.

Seriously Wayno, should I have to go camp off track just because a small minority of campers are rude and noisy? I could turn that argument around at so many gripes voiced on this site to the point no-one would be walking any trails.

At what point Corvus, in your philosophy, should one (or more to the point; a noisy inconsiderate group) of "Jock Tamson's Bairns" (cute ) NOT be welcome to set up beside your remote temporary wilderness refuge when other more considerate spaces are available? Does it ever become rudeness or a compromise of ideals or would you happily open up your tent-site to any noisy inconsiderate group who invaded your personal space?

I'm curious...
Steve

[corvus]

Happy Pirate,
I don't Car Camp so cannot comment about your circumstances however I have no problems with human interaction (rarely met) when off track and I also have enjoyed shared space on the OLT the Walls and Frenchmans both Tenting and Hutting and the only time I really got annoyed was once at New Pelion when an over sized group of Air Cadets got very boisterous ,they responded to my request to stop shouting across the tables at each other and peace resumed
I have also Been in Camps with hundreds of Scouts and have shared Barracks space with 24 Soldiers in my time so perhaps I am inured and yes I am becoming a grumpy old Man as is my want( and your's when the time comes)
Perhaps to use another old Scottish saying some of you "are mair teh be pitied than scolded" in you desire to do a "Greta Garbo"
corvus

Can you please translate this for an old fart like me.

Steve[/quote]But guys (Corvus in particular) you do present quite a cultural-relativist position that (like all post-modernist mumbo-jumbo) needs to be demolished by common sense and your posts smacked of such an excess of political correctness they seemed devoid of consideration of realistic situations.

Sheesh I thought I was just an old grumpy fart expressing an opinion