Overland Track Lecture.

[tasadam]

Hello everyone.
I felt compelled to contact the company concerned and extend both an invite to the forum, and an offer to help.
I was pleasantly surprised by the response so I thought I would share it with you here (with permission).

I said -

Hello.

My name is Adam and I am one of the administrators on the bushwalk forum http://www.bushwalk.com
I live an hour from the start of the Overland track (sorry, had to rub that in)...

You may be aware that there has been some criticism of a recent lecture your business provided in a lecture.
From what I gather, Tas Parks may also have been in touch with you.
The discussion on the forum went way off the rails, and I have spent a lot of time cleaning it up.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13803

Now I would like to (a) extend to you an opportunity to respond, and (b) offer to scrutinize your information to ensure that what information you distribute is factual.

How may I assist you further?

Kind regards,
Adam.
Keen bushwalker and Tasmanian wilderness photographer.

And their reply -

Dear Adam,

Thank you for your considerate email this morning. Yes, we are aware of the furore which has arisen after our most recent info night – one of your forum members kindly let us know and gave us a link to the discussion.

Naturally, grass-roots level feedback and participation is a vital part of our store’s culture and we are of course very concerned that any information we share be accurate, helpful and contemporaneous.

I spent the morning pulling out the salient criticisms from the forum and the manager of the store and I have been in discussion to figure out what, exactly, was said on our end, and how best to address the issue. In fact, this morning I attempted to create an account to log in to bushwalk.com, [edit by tasadam - resolved].

I do appreciate your offer to scrutinize our information – as you live that close to the Overland (congratulations, lucky you!) it would certainly be helpful to go over what we have.

Our company prides itself on the accuracy of our information and the high standards of the service we offer, so it is a significant (and unfortunate) occurrence for us to have either made errors or communicated ourselves so badly. The one thing we strive to be is a store where the staff are actually knowledgeable, because they get out there and do, and where anyone who talked or shopped with us would be able to rely on our expertise. As such, again, we do sincerely appreciate your efforts to let us clarify the matter and help amend any shortcomings!

I will continue looking into the matter of the Info Night and finding out exactly what went on so as to be able to respond accurately to your bushwalk forum.

Many thanks and kind regards.

I understand they have joined the forum and will respond in time.

[Nuts]

Good stuff. I'd suggest contacting Tas Parks for help, also consider how inexperienced people will interpret any detail (ie info may be best erring to the side of caution rather than being 'entirely' accurate or moreso 'complete').

[tastrax]

Good on you Adam,

I got a similar response and have asked the appropriate PWS folks to send some material to the company to update their information and get them "back on track"

[Chris]

Congratulations to the company, and thanks to tt and Adam - great to see constructive action from people who know what they''re talking about

[ULWalkingPhil]

Im happy to hear some good has come from my post. I felt compelled to check on the accuracy on some of the info provided on the night and what better place to check on this info than this fabulous forum.

I was beginning to feel some guilt in starting what turned out to be a heated topic at times.

But I felt compelled to advice on such topic to check on the accuracy of some of the info provided.

I am very happy some good has come from this topic.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I myself have not been to Tasmania thus far. So I don't consider myself experienced on the Overland Track. But I do regard myself experienced in overnight bushwalking.

I am planning a visit to Tasmania in the cooler time of year so to avoid the crowd.

Currently in the Sydney area getting some experience in bushwalking in colder conditions to see if my gear works for me and what don't.

I recently returned from 10 days in Canberra.

All my gear is working for me. Two main issues I have encountered. My rain jacket is delaminating and I can't sleep on a Neoair Xlite pad. My hammock is a huge success in cold environments.

While in Sydney I heard about the lecture. So the story starts.

[ybi2]

Phillipsart
If you are in Sydney and want to do a day walk then catch a bus from the rear of Wynyard Station to the Spit Bridge. Then walk to the northern end and you will find a stair case. Go down it and walk under the bridge and keep walking in a easterly direction along the water edge. You will find a great day walk that ends up at Manly. There you can catch the ferry back to Sydney. The track is known to nearby residents but not by many others. You will see great views of Sydney and rock carvings as well. Well worth it. Forget what the track is called. You can get a all day pass for about $20.00 that will cover the bus and ferry or you can pay for them separately. When you go back to Sydney from Manly it is very hard to see the track you were just on. Just a thought.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I have heard of that walk. Did not get a chance to walk it. The weathet has been miserable here the past few days. Leaving Sydney tomorrow. Thank christ for that. I seen enough of city life. Can't wait to get back on QLD soil tomorrow.

[trekandtravel]

Hello, bushwalkers! We at Trek & Travel have read through the discussion on the Info Night we recently held for the Overland Track and have taken note of the concerns raised. Obviously, it is very important when going out on any bushwalk, trip or expedition to have a thorough understanding of where you’re going and what you’re doing, and we know that an Info Night at Trek & Travel would only be a small component of the wise adventurer’s planning. Nevertheless, it is of course vital that anything we share or relate be accurate and up to the highest standards! As such, we’d like to address the issues raised and elaborate on the information we shared that night.

We discussed the info night with our staff (who were the presenters), and feel that there were a couple of points which may have been misunderstood or need clarification.

Communication is a tricky thing, and can be even trickier on a forum without the benefit of friendly voices and smiling faces! So we would like to make clear that our clarifications are in no way an angry rebuttal to the points raised. After all, if the way we communicated our information (however accurate) lead people to understand something other than what was intended, then we need to examine our presentation and make doubly sure that everything is up to scratch! We are always eager to improve our experiences and information – and in turn, those of our customers who come to us for advice and outfitting – and as such, we rely on feedback like this to help us ensure that we are doing the best job possible.

So with that in mind, we’d like to take the opportunity (very kindly extended by the mods of this forum) of going over some of the points from the evening. While the presentation was of course a verbal one, we were able to refer to the PowerPoint presentation that was used to double check the information which we shared that evening.

1. “The need for waterproof boots at all times.” Perhaps the phrase “waterproof boots at all times” is a bit misleading. When we spoke with our staff who presented the evening, they agreed that what they intended to convey was not that one continually needs waterproof boots, but that at any point on your trip there is the possibility that you will need them.

As many of the most gripping true-life adventure stories show, you can do almost anything, wearing practically anything, if you need to; and human ingenuity has very often triumphed over apocalyptic weather and bad luck! However, our position (one which we share with many hikers) is that being slightly over-prepared is far better than being underprepared – or in this case, undershod.

As hikers (beginners or pros), we would be very ill-equipped for a trip if we packed based on the best possible weather. Given that the weather on the Overland can be very changeable, and even a couple afternoons of rain can drastically change the look and feel of a trail, we recommend waterproof hiking boots simply as the best option to cover all contingencies. Even if the trails are not hugely affected, anybody who has hiked with wet shoes and socks even once (especially if they can’t be dried out) would agree that it’s an experience they never want to repeat again!

There are, of course, many other advantages that proper hiking boots have over runners or sandals – such as grip on slippery trails, ankle support, and general sturdiness. This, of course, doesn’t relate to whether they are waterproof or not (many excellent hiking boots are not fully waterproof) but are another indication why, at the very least, we recommend proper hiking boots rather than anything less. Having gone that far and recommended that you gear up in a “proper” pair, we simply take it a step further (given how we feel about cold, wet feet) and recommend that you invest in a pair that is waterproof.

2. “Cost of the ferry at the end is not included in the $200 pass”. Our main presenter remembers saying that she thought the cost of the ferry may have been included in the $200 park fee, but that it would be best to check the Tasmania Parks website to find the most up to date information. An audience member then kindly corrected this by saying that the fee was not included, and the presenters concurred and once again said it would be best to check the Parks website.
3. “Heaters in the hut are set to obtain a maximum of 10• and no more” alternatively, “Heaters will heat the rooms up to 10•” or “Heaters cut off at 10•” . This morning, we spoke with an Interpretation and Education Officer from Parks & Wildlife Service in Hobart, who explained the heater conundrum thoroughly. The heaters in the various huts (either coal or gas) are not regulated or pre-set. There is a thermometer beside them, with instructions for operating the heater, and a request that, if the temperature is 10° or above, the heater not be turned on. As everything for the maintenance of the trail is helicoptered in (including gas and coal), the request is an environmental one and an encouragement to walkers to come adequately prepared. However, ultimately the onus is on the hiker to respect the request; it is not enforced or incapable of being overridden.
4. “Majority of the track being timber planked” When we chatted with our staff and presenters, they remember saying not that the majority of the track is timber planked, but that the majority of it is prepared trail; for many areas this includes timber plank boardwalk-style path, but also includes groomed trail, gravel, and so forth. The Overland Track, while it does have some rough and sketchy areas (as we see in some of the photos posted on this blog!) does have a significant amount of prepared trail and one of the things which sets it apart as an excellent hike for beginners or less experienced hikers is that one doesn’t have to forge trails, clamber over huge rough boulders, or basically be doing anything highly technical. It’s not asphalt, of course, but relative to many significant walks it is much less demanding in this respect. Again, of course, we can’t argue with what our audience may have heard us say, so all we can do is restate this as what our intended message was and hope that it came across!
5. “Someone at the start checking gear and banning you if you don’t have the right gear” This was another issue we addressed with the Parks & Wildlife service officer when we called to clarify and question. She explained that yes, when one arrives at the visitor’s centre, if the rangers are not busy they may well talk to you about your gear or give it the once over. However, that is dependent on the crowds (or lack thereof) and the other responsibilities they’ve had. They also do not have the authority to turn someone around, but they may “strongly suggest” someone not go if they see someone who is particularly ill-prepared. The fact is, several of our staff who have hiked the Overland have witnessed people appearing to be turned away, but we trust Tas Parks on this and can therefore only surmise that the persons in question were given a “strong suggestion” which spoke to them very clearly! Perhaps conversation with the Rangers was enough to make them aware of their being under-equipped for the journey. Perhaps the most important thing to remember here is simply that the Rangers aren’t there to be a ‘safety net’ which lets us pack haphazardly or carelessly and then know that they’ll make sure we don’t go if we aren’t prepared. They are hugely experienced and know what they’re about, but their responsibilities can’t extend to making up for our deficiencies in preparation.
6. “Hut you can stay in for free at the start of the OT” We feel this must have been misunderstood, as our presenters are adamant that there are no free huts that they know of! The misunderstanding may have arisen because of a statement that the emergency huts are free to stay in, on the trail itself, but are (of course) only for emergencies. Our staff don’t know of any free huts at the start of the OT.
7. The idea that the speakers may have tried to ‘compensate’ – in other words, recommending excessive or unnecessarily technical gear (like waterproof boots) just to stop someone going in their trackies and runners To an extent, this may actually be true – but, we feel, not for the reasons that may easily be assumed. Of course, as a retail store, we can never wholly rid ourselves of the tinge of guilt associated with “wanting to sell things”! But we feel very confident in asserting that anybody who has ever visited our store would be able to say with complete confidence that that is not what we’re really about. We firmly don’t believe in high-pressure sales tactics and our philosophy, as a store, is not about selling as much as we possibly can – it’s about getting people out into the nature that we love. Our staff are passionate and committed about our world – hiking it, travelling it, floating its rivers – whatever the adventure happens to be! And being that they are all experienced trekkers and travellers, they appreciate not just quality gear but enough of it, the right style, the right type, and so on. So it is possible that in our talks we may end up recommending more gear than you would find on your own list, but it’s simply part of our efforts to be prepared and not let anyone end up out there without that essential something that they needed. Conversely, you’ll often hear staff talking about minimalist hiking, cutting down on weight, and maximum pack size – none of us want to carry more than we absolutely have to! In other words, we’re proclaiming here that we would never try and convince you to buy something costly or superfluous that you don’t need “just because”.

We’ve probably gone far over the allotted (or expected) length of any reasonable post, and we hope we haven’t put anybody to sleep from boredom. But as we said, these sorts of interactions are what make us (and let us be our best), so we wanted to do our best to address anything of value which came up. All the best to all the adventurers on this great forum, and good luck in whatever walk is coming up next!

Warm wishes,

Trek & Travel

www.trekandtravel.com.au

[corvus]

Most comprehensive reply addressing many questions however have you brought your Staff up to date as to the real conditions and as your clients pay for this advice I personally believe it should be 100% accurate.
corvus

[Ent]

Hi

As with Corvus thanks for taking the time to respond. On the hut heating the instructions can be interpreted that heaters will not work above ten degrees when re-reading them at New Pelion so some room for confusion.

As a commercial organization hopefully due consideration will be given to accurate advice as things can change such as fees and paying season length.

A major issue is also the bus and ferry schedules to ensure connecting travel arrangements are achieved.

Regards.

[ULWalkingPhil]

That was myself that corrected the presenters on the ferry issue. Sorry, I don't agree on a lot on what you say in your response to the lecture given.

One example in regards to the ferry, it was clearly mentioned by your presenters on the night that the ferry fee is included in the Overland fees, it was not till I stood up and mentioned this is not true when the presenters than mentioned to check on this info and not before I stood up, I just could not listen any longer with out standing up as I known as a fact that that info given was incorrect.

This is just one example, another is the free hut at Dove Lake, there was definitely mention of a free hut that is advised to be used on the night before for an early start i was so close to standing up and querying about this on the night as well, as I never heard of or read of any free huts at the start of the walk.

I went with a friend on the night and he heard what I heard on the night.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Doonish]

Even if the trails are not hugely affected, anybody who has hiked with wet shoes and socks even once (especially if they can’t be dried out) would agree that it’s an experience they never want to repeat again!

Not planning on doing much walking in Tassie, then?

[Strider]

There is no such thing as waterproof boots!

[Taurë-rana]

There is no such thing as waterproof boots!

Yep, they all have large holes in the top!

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks for taking the time to respond comprehensively. However, I have to take issue with your comments regarding waterproof boots. Although the recommendation for waterproof boots is fine, it is certainly not a must-have, and you really should NOT imply that this would result in dry feet. In particular...

anybody who has hiked with wet shoes and socks even once (especially if they can’t be dried out) would agree that it’s an experience they never want to repeat again!

I've hiked in wet feet in Tasmania dozens (hundreds?) of times, and continue to do so. My current pair of boots is actually waterproof, and although they usually keep my feet dry, water can still get in over the top. Putting on wet shoes and socks each morning is quite normal for bushwalkers in Tasmania. The Overland Track is easier and less wet than most other tracks, but it is not entirely uncommon there either.

Rather than giving the impression waterproof boots are required, you should be educating walkers that they should expect to walk in wet feet and just put up with it, and then that waterproof boots can sometimes avoid this if the water is less than ankle deep (or mid-calf deep with gaiters).

[norts]

And lets not even get into all the people who walk in Dunlop Volleys, they definitely dont have dry feet, would you like to comment David Noble?

Roger

[ybi2]

2. “Cost of the ferry at the end is not included in the $200 pass”. Our main presenter remembers saying that she thought the cost of the ferry may have been included in the $200 park fee, but that it would be best to check the Tasmania Parks website to find the most up to date information. An audience member then kindly corrected this by saying that the fee was not included, and the presenters concurred and once again said it would be best to check the Parks website.

I have not completed the OVT since the introduction of the fee as I have been completing other tracks. Does the $200.00 track fee include the park entry fee as well? If not then perhaps people telling prospective hikers about the track and the costs should tell them that there will be another fee when they get there. If there is no additional fee then that is OK. I understand that it was quoted "but it would be best to check the Tasmania Parks website to find the most up to date information." If there is a fee then it should be stated.

[trekandtravel]

Most comprehensive reply addressing many questions however have you brought your Staff up to date as to the real conditions and as your clients pay for this advice I personally believe it should be 100% accurate.
corvus

We certainly use everything in our power not to misinform people, but it should perhaps be restated that our info nights are 100% free! The only thing our clients pay us for, if ever, is for gear they purchase from our store.

[Nuts]

Does the $200.00 track fee include the park entry fee as well?

Parks Tas holiday pass (8 weeks) +$30 Per person or Per Carload +$60

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Good on them for responding and making the effort to clear up areas where their advice may not have been ideal, and areas where the presenter may have been misunderstood (the explanation about the "90% boardwalk" makes much more sense).

They could have just ignored it and they haven't. Have to give them credit for that.

[Doonish]

We certainly use everything in our power not to misinform people, but it should perhaps be restated that our info nights are 100% free! The only thing our clients pay us for, if ever, is for gear they purchase from our store.

Lets not get disingenuous, now - this is a part of your marketing strategy, not the goodness of your hearts. The cost of the night is neither here nor there.

But it sounds like your forthcoming nights might have more accurate information - so good luck to you.

[trekandtravel]

We certainly use everything in our power not to misinform people, but it should perhaps be restated that our info nights are 100% free! The only thing our clients pay us for, if ever, is for gear they purchase from our store.

Lets not get disingenuous, now - this is a part of your marketing strategy, not the goodness of your hearts. The cost of the night is neither here nor there.

But it sounds like your forthcoming nights might have more accurate information - so good luck to you.

No attempts at disingenuousness here! Of course the Info Nights are part of our marketing, and sadly for us there's no way to emphasize that our staff are, nevertheless, enthusiastic about sharing their experiences without it sounding like another threadbare marketing ploy. Our point here was not that we have nothing to gain from the Info Nights, but from reading some of the preceding comments it sounded like some forum users might be under the misapprehension that we organize and guide trips, as well as selling gear. As there is an off-the-beaten-path travel agency in our building, and since several of our staff do guide, it's a common enough mistake.

We just want to be clear about that - as unfortunate as miscommunications and mistakes might be, it would be an even more serious accusation if people were paying us, not only for the advice, but for the arrangements, safety, and total trip.

Thanks!

[tasadam]

We certainly use everything in our power not to misinform people, but it should perhaps be restated that our info nights are 100% free! The only thing our clients pay us for, if ever, is for gear they purchase from our store.

Lets not get disingenuous, now - this is a part of your marketing strategy, not the goodness of your hearts. The cost of the night is neither here nor there.

But it sounds like your forthcoming nights might have more accurate information - so good luck to you.

An accusation was made previously in the discussion that they were charging customers for their advice,

...and as your clients pay for this advice I personally believe it should be 100% accurate.

Seems to me they were merely responding to that inaccurate point with their reply.

By the way, does anyone else see the irony in that quote?

[corvus]

Most comprehensive reply addressing many questions however have you brought your Staff up to date as to the real conditions and as your clients pay for this advice I personally believe it should be 100% accurate.
corvus

We certainly use everything in our power not to misinform people, but it should perhaps be restated that our info nights are 100% free! The only thing our clients pay us for, if ever, is for gear they purchase from our store.

I apologise for making the assumption that your clients pay for information (just gear) however I still personally believe the information should be as accurate and up to date as possible ( I guess I was dreaming about 100% getting accuracy) as condition do change on the Track daily .
corvus