Overland Track & Side Routes

[whynotwalk]

G'day all. I've heard from inside Parks that there is serious discussion among managers of the Overland Track about "closing loopholes" regarding use of side tracks to access the Overland. Their real concern seems to be with blogs & forums that tell people to come in via the Never Never (or the Arm River or Lees), with the specific intention of not paying the Track Fee . Apparently a noticeable number of walkers, esp. from overseas, are spinning a remarkably similar story to Overland Track rangers.

As someone who often accesses bits of the Overland Track via these tracks, the last thing I and my walking mates want is to see is a a ban on such cross-country walkers being on the OT merely because a few people want to "beat the system". The Overland Track fee is comparable with many other track fees in other countries, and the walk is certainly brilliant. And there are many many other walk options if you don't want to do the walk and pay the fee. But believe me, those who pay are grumbling about non-payers using hut facilities etc. If it continues on this scale next season, I wouldn't be surprised to see changes being introduced that no-one here would like.

What do I suggest we do? For a start we could stop giving the nod to blatant "system work-arounds". It's cutting off funding from a service and a track that sorely needs it. And anyone who thinks the Tas. government, in the current climate, is going to fund the track from central revenue .... well, tell 'em they're dreamin'

cheers

Peter

[corvus]

with the specific intention of not paying the Track Fee it continues on this scale next season, I wouldn't be surprised to see changes being introduced that no-one here would like.

What do I suggest we do? For a start we could stop giving the nod to blatant "system work-arounds". It's cutting off funding from a service and a track that sorely needs it. And anyone who thinks the Tas. government, in the current climate, is going to fund the track from central revenue .... well, tell 'em they're dreamin'

cheers

Peter

Peter good post however what about those of us who only wish to access Pelion Plains,some mountain Peaks or a 50 min walk on the Overland whilst doing the Never Never Lees Paddocks circuit the full track fee would be overkill.
I seem to recall a conversation recently wherein hut bookings for Pelion and WFV could be implemented and a fee charged
ok!! who is going to "police it " and at what cost ?? methinks this is dreamin'
c

[sthughes]

Perhaps the huts should be run as hotels? No that won't work cause everyone would just camp elsewhere in non-hardened areas and ruin the environment.

I don't think people who come in from the Never Never or Arm River track are just trying to "work-around" paying the fee. I for one have done it a few times just because that was where I wanted to walk - I did not want to do the whole overland track and if you are climbing say Mt. Oakleigh it's kinda a long way around via Cradle/Waterfall Valley & Windermere!

Honestly I pay park fees and the rules don't require me to pay the OT fee just to visit one hut so I can't see an issue with what I do.

For that matter I really don't see the point of the OT fee. If it is for track maintenance etc. why do people in winter walk free? Are they just trying to keep people who can't afford it off the track and out of site of tourists in the peak season?

Why can you drive through the highlands in a car for free (on a road that costs zillions of dollars to build and maintain) but have to pay to walk it (on a narrow track of boards, mud & roots) - perhaps this accounts for our road toll and obesity epidemic??

Why is it fine to use "central revenue" on football grounds, horse racing tracks, hockey centres, tennis courts etc, etc but not on walking tracks?? Bushwalkers pay their taxes as well!

PS: Sorry that kinda degraded into an off topic rant about the OT fee! Must have got out the wrong side of bed

[flyfisher]

Hi STH, whilst its against my better nature to agree too much with you about anything I do agree on this issue.
There are some walks and mountains to climb which neccessitate using/crossing/being near the OT and should require no fee other than NP pass.
Would be like travelling Hobart to Launceston without using/crossing the midlands highway.
FF

Last edited by flyfisher on Tue 30 Nov, 2010 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[tasadam]

This does indeed sound like "pie in the sky" stuff.
People in Parks that utter these things should remember something -
The PREMIER walk in Tasmania as seen by these interstate / overseas visitors / tourists (that bring their money) is the Overland Track.
There is no compromise to doing the full overland track experience. That is why it is so popular. Indeed, that is why they needed to introduce a booking system.

The park is big enough to allow access to areas such as :
Arm River to Pelion West or Ossa (and others),
Lake St CLair to DuCane or Labyrinth / Pine Valley,
Dove Lake to Cradle Mountain or Barn Bluff or Rodway circuit,
And as for the minute number of walkers that are fortunate enough to arrange transport out via a different location, such as coming in Arm River or Lees or Never Never and out via Cradle or St Clair, then good luck to them, it's hardly going to be making a difference. They are obviously there for a different purpose to the experience of the Overland Track. Doing a walk such as one of the other options mentioned is a big compromise on the full Overland Track experience. Sure they're nice walks too, but by doing them you have not "done the Overland Track". You cannot go home and say you have walked one of the great bushwalks of the world. And you are probably there for a different reason anyhow - to do a central peak, for example.
I should mention here that all of the side tracks are considerably different grade to the Overland Track, and apart from the Arm River track they are all a LOT more difficult with more navigation skills required and more leeches to be encountered.

A few years ago I was part of a party of 5 who came in via Arm River to Pelion then north to Frog Flats for 2 nights.
Snarky comments made by uneducated Overland Track walkers indicated to us that they thought we were cheating the system by doing a south-north walk, and bypassing the fee because of it.
People pay $150 for the privilege of doing the Overland Track so you can understand this point of view if that were the case.

It could be the comments of these walkers to the rangers at the end of the walk that are building an impression in the minds of the rangers that there are a great number of walkers wandering all through the park - and Parks might see the opportunity for missed revenue as a result.
Remember that everyone in there has (at least SHOULD) paid their parks pass. I think the most that Parks can do is increase the checking that is done on parks pass holders, and perhaps increase a penalty for those that are clearly in breach. It would not take much for an example of some people being made by being stung in the hip pocket and the word would be out that if you don't have your pass, you will be fined.

The log books that are on the Arm River track as well as at each end of the park will assist Parks in declaring the actual numbers of walkers coming in via side routes, as well as what their intentions are.
If I have only 4 days spare, for example, is it fair to charge me $150 to come in via the Arm River track because I am going to be travelling on some of the Overland Track?
Perhaps the real issue is that our Gov't is too stingy to give Parks the money needed to manage and maintain the park properly. But that's getting political, so I won't discuss that here.

Their real concern seems to be with blogs & forums that tell people to come in via the Never Never (or the Arm River or Lees), with the specific intention of not paying the Track Fee .

I think you will find that such discussions around here are there to cater for people that want to explore areas primarily other than the Overland Track. There have been a number of discussions here about people paying the fee to do the Overland Track. I cannot recall a discussion encouraging anyone to bypass the fee - indeed posts like that would be deleted and if anyone here finds such a post please bring it to the attention of the admin group (me or Son of a beach).

As for the use of the Huts by walkers coming in via side routes, one of the main reasons me or people I know that would come in via these side routes is to miss the experience of going into the "village in the park" - the great many people that you encounter on the Overland Track and in the huts (particularly New Pelion hut) in comparison to the reletave quiet of a back-track or off-track area. Last time I went in was to spend a week around remote areas such as Thetis and Perrins Bluff. This is not something that can be done as part of the Overland Track - taking 2 weeks and carrying supplies for that long was not on the agenda. And I certainly would not want to be using the huts on such walks - the whole idea is to get some time and space to ourselves. Most I would do is call in for some tank water and to use the dropdunny as it is more eco than digging a hole. Is flying out one extra "processed meal" that big an impact?

The experience level required to come in via the Never never or up from Lees along the Mersey river etc, is somewhat "different" to the Overland Track. I haven't done some of these walks myself as I have not had the time, nor have I sat down and done the logistics on how my navigation would go in these areas. These areas are indeed to be discouraged by the average Overland Track walker, usually a fit enough walker and quite capable, but the standard is chalk and cheese - the Overland track is a comparitive highway.

In my mind the issue is the perception that tourists that are paying the $150 fee are feeling they are being duped by people coming into the park and not paying the fee.
They need to be educated that the park has multiple uses, and that they are there for the exclusivity of doing the whole Overland Track experience - congratulations to them, they are there for a fantastic experience and should not be put off by people that are experiencing a small part of it without paying the Overland Track fee. If they cannot get a bunk in a hut because, for example, a large party has come in via a side route and has claimed a number of bunks in the hut, well that could be an issue worth looking at. I thought they had hut wardens - volunteers such as the chap I met at Waterfall Valley a few weeks ago on an overnight walk to Barn Bluff. They should be able to monitor whether there is really an issue.

Well, these are my thoughts on the subject.

Oh crap, another big story, sorry, I have had 2 strong coffees already this morning.

[corvus]

As a regular visitor over many years to WFV Huts and Pelion Huts I have found that the majority of folk I met doing the OLT were appreciative of "local" advice and were not in the slightest concerned that I had not paid the "fee" by only accessing the area for one or two nights .
So perhaps it is the groups who "dont mix " that complain or is it a "Furphy " introduced by some to "give Parks a serve" as in my belief Parks will never have enough money whilst Parks Staff "fight amongst themselves for their share"Sorry if I have offended hard working Parks people.
c

[crazyone]

I think that if Parks would want to start charging to come in off side tracks then Parks would want to upgrade the facilities on these side tracks that allow access to the OLT. i dont think that any of us want to see that, as already mentioned these areas take more experience and are certainly not entry level (as I see it) like the OLT is. I was happy to pay the booking fee to get the OLT experience but if they want to charge me more than just my park fees to come into the upper mersey area than they can ramp up the facilities or alternately, they can just leave it the way it is( my preferred option). I really dont think that people go thru the Never Never just to avoid the OLT fee. I went there because i was keen to see it. Surely 99% of us that do these walks like to do circuit walks rather than out and back and the bits of the OLT we use for that purpose dont have a real impact on any one else, do they?

I know ive repeated others thoughts but i just happen to share them is all. And finally, i met a ranger at pelion hut on my way out from my walls/never never/arm river walk. She didnt say a thing about my OLT accessing. She even helped me arrange a lift with a seriously kind lady back to the walls carpark (it was when the mersey bridge was out at pine hut plain). So who knows...

[MJD]

I've done a few off track walks recently in the Park that had me on the Overland Track (OLT) at some stage. One walk to the Perrins Bluff area had me coming in on the Arm River Track and then on the OLT for about 2kms. Came out the same way. Another walk was a traverse of the Ducane Range which had me walking from Narcissus to the Ducane Gap, about 11kms on the OLT, and out from Pine Valley, another 4 kms on the OLT. Got a few comments from those heading South from the Ducane Gap about going the wrong way but they seemed quite interested when I told them where I was heading. I did not use any of the huts or other facilities on the OLT and thought that they were far too crowded. In fact last time I stayed near the Pelion Plains I camped at Lake Ayr.

I would be strongly opposed to having to pay extra to walk on a small part of the OLT to get to one of the side tracks/areas. I have an all parks pass, and in my opinion, this should be adequate.

Given how crowded the overnight facilites get I can understand this being the basis of some grumbling. Perhaps there needs to be system whereby those who pay the OLT fee get preference at these places or people without an OLT pass pay an overnight fee if they stay at one and there is room for them. Of course the problem with this sort of idea is that it is much easier to describe than to implement and manage.

[tastrax]

Parks hat ON...

Firstly I should clearly state that I work for Parks - years as a Ranger, then track management, now asset management (over 25 years total)

I thoroughly enjoy these discussions as they often reflect all sides of the arguments and also reflect, almost word for word, the types of internal discussions that occur within Parks. Like many of the writers on this forum its often hard to come up with single solutions that fit everyone's needs - add to that the need to get any decision past the public, community groups and the politicians and you can see the bind that faces PWS on an almost daily basis.

Parks hat OFF...

In the current economic climate I cant help but think that PWS will be asked (like all govt departments) to raise more revenue or reduce costs (either staff, vehicle, phones, travel...all the usual areas). The question of raising more funds comes back to ... how much are folk prepared to pay ...and what for?

Most fee systems rely on providing a "service" (in walking terms its things like infrastructure, huts, suspension bridges, toilets etc) but PERSONALLY I would also pay for an "experience" like the Prince of Wales Range/Spires or the Western Arthurs despite the fact it has no/minimal infrastructure. Again, the question is how much should I pay (or how much am I willing to pay) over and above my Park Entry Fees (PEF) and what do I expect in return (uncrowded campsites, clean water, minimally impacted environment, untracked walking opportunity).

It seems many folk want a mechanism to direct either all, or part, of their PEF's to walking track management. They may also be willing to pay more if they know where the funds are going.

Maybe (as suggested by others) walkers that cross the Overland Track might be willing to pay to stay in huts (but not campsites away from the usual hut zones)? This would provide an easy way to know if hut users have paid (either they have an Overland Pass or they have some sort of "hut booking"). In the peak season at least there are hut wardens/track rangers who can check.

I am also happy to help out with drafting up any submission that forum members might like to pass on to Parks on any of the above matters (if that is desired by forum members).

Parks hat back ON...

[corvus]

tastrax,
Good comments however what would happen if someone turned up at WFV or Oakliegh View with no booking in crap weather with no tent ??.
Hut booking now that we have controled numbers on the track would be an over kill and in IMHO the idea should be binned unless of course we are willing to provide the well equipped NZ style.
c

[ILUVSWTAS]

tastrax,
what would happen if someone turned up at WFV or Oakliegh View with no booking in crap weather with no tent ??.

c

If they go out there that unprepared, they deserve to go cold.

[juju]

Why can you drive through the highlands in a car for free (on a road that costs zillions of dollars to build and maintain) but have to pay to walk it (on a narrow track of boards, mud & roots) - perhaps this accounts for our road toll and obesity epidemic??

Why is it fine to use "central revenue" on football grounds, horse racing tracks, hockey centres, tennis courts etc, etc but not on walking tracks?? Bushwalkers pay their taxes as well!

Hushed spectators at the start of the Overland Track

OT spectators.jpg (54.33 KiB) Viewed 12808 times

I know there are a lot of costs involved in the maintenance of the OT but something that worries me is that the somewhat large fee is to discourage it's overuse. This sort of thinking really bothers me 'Oh it's too popular now - let's put the fee up to so less people use it'. This idea was put out as a solution to the oil crisis. It only serves to further disadvantage those already at a financial disadvantage. I haven't walked the OT but it would be a good family walk to do, variety of terrain, scenic, not too long each day. A family of four is $600 for 7 days, that's expensive accommodation, especially since you can't really say 'Can I hve a discount - I don't want a cabin'. I think the booking system is important to lessen the numbers but then you have to police it and it just leaves you with a sort of yucky feeling at that regulation...we love these places so much we're loving them to death.

[Lizzy]

NZ Great Walks you pay more to stay in huts & less to camp. I think for the Routeburn it may have been $60/nt for a hut (pretty flashy huts with water, gas cookers, bunk with mattress) and $15 to camp....finally freedom walkers pay nothing and camp well away from the track & use no facilities. Perhaps an idea to reduce the cost for those who don't wish to stay in huts.....
Lizzy

[Flyboy]

I walked the OT a couple of years ago and paid the OT fee.

I have absolutey no problem with locals or bushwalking enthusiasts coming in via Arm River and not paying the fee. Being a South Aussie, I think Tasmanian's (IMHO) shouldn't have to pay the fee to walk the entire track, full stop.

When I walked (early Feb 08) there were no huge issues with huts being overly full and people fighting for space. Parks make it very obvious that tents need to be carried and hut space is not guaranteed. I wouldn't have felt "ripped off" if we'd had to use the tent because a few people had come in from Arm River and filled up a hut.

If walkers (and in particular international tourists) are getting cranky about huts being filled by people who haven't paid the OT fee, they should be referred to the conditions which implicitly state hut space is NOT guaranteed. If they want guaranteed hut space, they should pay for a commercial tour operator.

I think the main point Parks are getting at is that it should not be openly advertised or encouraged too much in the public forum because it means poeple (including international tourists) walking the entire track are just using Arm River as an excuse to not paying when getting checked by rangers (but then walking right through).

People always want something for nothing.

Perhaps the best solution is to put a big sign on the hut doors that says "During peak season, walkers who are not walking the entire Overland Track shall not use hut sleeping space until after 7pm".

This would be the best solution because:
1. Locals and the like won't get stung the OT fee but can use huts which are not full.
2. It would solve the problem of fee payers getting cranky about losing hut space.
3. It would be easy to police. Rangers would just have to do checks of OT passes around 630pm inside the hut to make sure others haven't taken the space before everyone arrives (and kick out those who don't have a pass).

Perhaps also another big sign at Waterfall Valley stating that regular ranger checks will occur all the way to Lake St. Clair and that those found to be walking through to Narcissus without an OT pass will be severely penalised.

It's just another case of a couple of people ruining it for everyone.

If Parks are so concerned about a couple of, well, thieves essentially, then perhaps those who don't have a pass should have to present photo ID which gets recorded by each ranger - consolidate it and then fine those that have walked right through. If it is really as a big a problem as Parks make it out to be, then the fines should allow them to recover the costs of the extra work involved in tracking these people.

[juju]

Do commercial tours have first dibs on a bed?
Hey everyone who paid could wear a fleuro arm band...
I can't imagine there would be so many people walking the OT and going to so much trouble to not pay the fee, especially with so much agro around and how do you know who's up to no good? some could be faster or slower and not seem to be doing the whole trip and well, they wouldn't be very popular if they advertised the fact that they didn't pay...

OT-shirt

OT shirt.jpg (16.48 KiB) Viewed 12721 times

[Erica]

Do commercial tours have first dibs on a bed?

I was of the understanding that commercial tours stayed in tents? Might be wrong though, but I thought that was the case for any "group bookings" such as commercial groups, scouts, school groups etc.

Like other people have said, I don't really think that we (as a forum) have been encouraging people not to pay the OLT fee at all!

I just got back on Tuesday from walking out on the track, and it seems like (at least that week) bookings were a little down for the OLT, but everyone I saw that did the whole track had an OLT pass on their packs. Ran into two guys that (I think) volunteer as hut wardens, and they'd been off exploring in the Lakes east of Windemere and then a girl that was coming out from the Never Never, met her on her 6th day and she was heading to Lake St Clair. It seems a bit rough to make people who have the skills, knowledge and drive to walk 'off track' in Cradle/St Clair NP to pay some sort of fee for not using, or maybe using, the facilities that are there. Are they going to make us pay extra to walk in the walls, and use the facilities there? Frenchmans Cap? etc etc, pretty sure thats what our parks passes are for, yes?

Erica.

[tazzieguy]

Exactly, we already pay big $rs for our annual passes etc, if we were to have to pay extra to visit the walls or the never never or any one of a hundred locations in our national parks it would be basically daylight robbery imho.
I agree park maintenance, track work etc costs money, everything costs money BUT this is exactly what our parks pass goes towards.
Parks is short of cash? Well quite honestly I am not surprised, personally I think parks is becoming more like a big business than simply a management/caretaker/maintenance service as originally intended.
Same as any other government department, most of the money is spent paying management and there silly salaries + cars + phones and all there other taxpayer funded luxuries. Much the same reason as the hospital system is so bad, paying 5 people(managers etc) + benifits to do the work 1 person could do.
My solution, overhaul the administration, cut out the bureaucratic red tape, fire the greedy lazy types sucking out of the public trough and employ a few honest Tasmanians with the background to make sensible decisions and whom are willing to work for an average wage (which alot of us would be more than happy too im sure) instead of the 90G+ annum. they are paying some now.
As the situation is now parks wastes more money than it spends usefully. Those new huts are a good example, 1+ million dollars each to keep tourists happy, well someone is getting rich out of that, I know many respectable contractors whom would have happily built those same places + air transport for less than half the price. Also the design of one hut in particular is just shocking, not only that it is an eyesore. Really have to wander whom is making the decisions, no one with any common sense thats for sure imho.
As to track maintenance and hut construction, there is one easy low cost solution. There are hundreds of Tasmanian's im sure who would happily construct a small section of boardwalk, help with hut building etc while away on a multiday walk in exchange for some food and a free pass. Helidrop materials and volunteers can do the work, would save millions of dollars, take some burden of our hard working rangers, alow some people to visit our parks who otherwise cant afford too and maintenance would actually get done when needed! All for the cost of a few hundred parks passes. Fairly negligible really in the scheme of things.
Anyways just having a rant! but really something needs to be done I reckon