sleeping bag

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sleeping bag

Postby forgie » Fri 28 Sep, 2012 5:37 pm

Hello Everyone!!

I am looking for a sleeping bag to take on the several hikes i will be doing when i go to NZ. Planning on doing the Harman Pass (arthurs pass) and the Travers Sabine (nelson lakes) will be travelling up to bakers hut and waimakariri falls huts. Similarly for treks like the overland and other alpine treks. Looking for an appropriate bag for summer to late autumn condition for any other treks i will come back and do. Budget around 400-500 but really want to get a feel for the required temperature ratings needed. Have been looking at some bags rated to 0 degrees. would this be suitable being paired with a liner and layer for most seasons but winter? or do i need to think about something closer to -7 Celsius?

have been looking at;
western mountaineering summerlite
mountain hardware phantom 32*F
marmot hydrogen 30*F


I want it to be light :D

Any advice helpful
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby madmacca » Fri 28 Sep, 2012 8:49 pm

Most of those are good quality lightweight bags - if you are willing to buy off the internet, you should be able to get most of those well within your budget. Rab Neutrino is one I would add to that list.

Before going colder than that, it is probably worth investing in better insulation under you in the form of a higher R-value pad (or combination of pads)

Someone with better knowledge of local conditions might comment on the rating you need for those locations.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby forgie » Fri 28 Sep, 2012 9:12 pm

madmacca wrote:Most of those are good quality lightweight bags - if you are willing to buy off the internet, you should be able to get most of those well within your budget. Rab Neutrino is one I would add to that list.

Before going colder than that, it is probably worth investing in better insulation under you in the form of a higher R-value pad (or combination of pads)

Someone with better knowledge of local conditions might comment on the rating you need for those locations.


thanks madmacca, i currently have an exped synmat 7 has got a fairly decent R value, and super light! I think with the right combination of inners and layers i could easily push it towards -7 if need be (don't really anticpate winter trips at this stage)
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby wayno » Sat 29 Sep, 2012 6:15 am

traverse sabine you can do entirely in huts, guaranteed a bunk outside of peak summer, harman pass doable in huts unless you really want to tent, do harman pass at the warmer time of year if you're going to tent and if you're going to do traverse sabine at cooler time in huts that will reduce the warmth required in your bag....
if you are tenting it in autumn you need to plan for sub zero with an insulated mat that will cope with sub zero. i've never used synmat in the cold. i use thermarest. not the neo. winter in the south island in the mountains can easily hut minus ten or fifteen. even in autumn dont take a tent with a mesh inner the wind howls up and down the steep valleys like a wind tunnel making the cold a lot worse... I avoid tenting in the south island as much as possible! and never in winter.... problem is even when its not sub zero the high humidity means the air sucks the cold out of you faster than in the dry cold..... a few hundred grams of extra down will be well worth carrying in autumn.
i've got three bags, a summer with 300gm down exped ultralight, a three season, with 500gm down exped 500 light (with down jacket for backup) and a winter bag, with 900gm down fairydown everest entrant, waterproof for the coldest weather,,, and in winter i've needed the 900gm bag.....
i'm planning on going to nelson lakes in march and i;ll be taking the 500gm down bag unless the forecast is particularly cold, if it is then it will be the 900 bag...
i've done winter trips there before and i'll never forget how cold i was in a -10 rated bag in a small hut. although back then that was the only rating for the bag it may have been the extreme rating. it was a 2 kilo synthetic hollow fibre bag...in the morning i had to use a bit of effort to seperate by boots from the ground as they were frozen to it...
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby nq111 » Sat 29 Sep, 2012 9:49 am

Only my opinion but I reckon that 100g or 200g of extra down in a sleeping bag will be the lowest weight option to gain warmth, so long as your mat is sufficient. Only possible lighter option for a few degrees when it is cold is a very light vapour barrier.

Those are all fine bags that won't disappoint to their designed capabilities.

Wayno is right that 'humid cold' around about zero is in practical terms harder to deal with keeping warm than 'dry cold' at, say, -10. Also, the weights Wayno refers to are the weight of down filling, not the entire bag. Down weights (with some adjustment for down quality) is the best starting point to get a rule-of-thumb honest estimate of a bags warmth.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby wayno » Sat 29 Sep, 2012 12:07 pm

not sure what the loft is on my winter bag it has a rating of -25 but it wasnt clear if that was the extreme rating which i suspect it is, but my exped 500 is 800 loft and the 300 is 850, i think all the new exped bags are 850 loft, about as good as yu can get, very warm for the weight, the latest lightweight nylon as well to reduce how much it pushes down on the down...
realy like the attention to design exped bags have, invisible stitching, reinforcing at the end of the zips. the ultralight bags are narrow to save as much weight as possible. glow in the dark toggles on hte neck drawstring, internal pocket...you can move the down from bottom to top according to needs for the temperature... come with waterproof drybag stuff sacks and mesh loose stuff sacks that can double as insect nets when you're asleep... not sure whre they sell them in aus though, they are bivouacs main brand of bag sold by them in nz, bivouac only tend to deal in top notch gear

these are the sellers for them in aus http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_ho ... #Australia
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby forgie » Sat 29 Sep, 2012 7:02 pm

decided on the WM summerlite. Will be pairing this with a decent linear and a down jacket if need be. I think this should cover me for most condition i will be walking in for the next few years (december-febuary) i think doing this i should be easyily able to deal with any sub zero temps to about -5 degrees. I didnt want to go for a -7 WM ultralite for fear of being too hot all the time. I have had this before with a mountain designs bag i have
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby madmacca » Sun 30 Sep, 2012 12:30 am

thanks madmacca, i currently have an exped synmat 7 has got a fairly decent R value, and super light! I think with the right combination of inners and layers i could easily push it towards -7 if need be (don't really anticpate winter trips at this stage)[/quote]


Synmat 7 should be a good match for that kind of bag.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby Solohike74 » Sun 30 Sep, 2012 10:31 pm

I use a thermarest prolite plus which is R3.8. In winter in alpine areas I will use below it a 10mm foamie. This, plus my -11 (comfort/man) rated down bag keeps me toasty anywhere. Consider also grabbing one of those sea to summit reactor liners, they really give you a bit of extra warmth.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby wayno » Mon 01 Oct, 2012 7:11 am

dont skimp on extra layers. thin down jackerts arent that warm in nz. get a full thckness one, they are aonly a hundred or two hundred grams more in weight and worth it in colder weather. you dont have to wait for winter to be cold in nz. it's not uncommon to have snow in mid summer
my photo is taken in november in the north island.... yup still snow around.... minus 6 in the morning...
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 01 Oct, 2012 8:20 am

Not much room inside those WM Summerlite bags either.
I just got an email from Golite, they have some of their bags back in stock and still on sale
Not many people like the centre zip. I do, ever since I got my EGGE Expedition which i wish I still had
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby wayno » Mon 01 Oct, 2012 10:20 am

yeah the lightest bags are often the smallest shaped bags. i cant get my arms out of my exped ultralight with the zip done up. thats teh thing people go shopping based on savign weight but they have to recognise there are tradeoffs with that. search the subject "stupid light"

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10887&p=144397&hilit=stupid+light#p144397

sometimes you're saving a hundred or so grams to buy something thats just too light for what you want to do.
plenty of ultralight trampers suffer more for their decision to go ultralight.. i'd rather carry more weight, and shorten a trip to avoid being too uncomfortable..
especially if your'e coming from western aus, the cold in nz could be a bit of a shock to the system, you don't feel the cold when you're watching all that great scenery on your tv or computer, theres more than a few times i've ended up too cold to make the trip enjoyable. people see the photos and go wow, but until you're been "gripped" by real cold then it's hard to describe, some dont mind it so much but others do... if you get wet in the cold weather you need a decent bag and warm clothes to change into at the end of the day, i've had hypothermia and it was a lifesaver for me on a couple of occasions.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 01 Oct, 2012 10:40 am

Following on from Waynos comments.
While down is the lightest insulation for sleeping bags it isn't always optimum for clothing.
I now seldom take or use my down parka, usually now I opt for the less warm but more reliable belay parka with polyester fill. new Zealand can be very cold but it can also be very wet.
If you decide to use a belay-parka as part of your warm-wear make sure you take you shell parka and warm layers into the shop when you try it on. It takes a little getting used to the idea but the belay parka is supposed to go over everything else.
Not having to take anything off to dress warmer can be a real lifesaver
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby wayno » Mon 01 Oct, 2012 11:21 am

my down jacket only gets used when i'm finisehd traming for the day, and it is a waterproof jacket as well.. nz isn't cold enough to warrant tramping in down
i use fleece if i need something warm when i'm tramping and a shell over the top. but the synthtic insulated jackets are another option, just a fleece gives more breathanility when you need it.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby forgie » Mon 01 Oct, 2012 7:13 pm

some really good advice guys! i will indeed be taking rain jackets (maybe windbreaker too) and at least 2 pairs of thermals (tops and bottoms) as well as a couple of lightweight icebreaker jumpers. I plan to use something similar to wayno with the down jacket only at camps. Although you all make valid points about weather and low temps i think by playing it safe with back up dry gear and being smart i will be able to cope for those extreme -6 conditions. Ultimately with the weather over here i had to draw a line when it came to sleeping bag limits. Similarly for at least the next 3 years i will be walking only in the summer months so hopefully these -6 condition will not be a frequent (every day of the trip) occurrence *touch wood*. I will most definitely learn from any mistakes
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby roysta » Tue 02 Oct, 2012 5:43 pm

Forgie, I'm wondering whether you might have gone a bit short of the mark in getting the Summerlite.
I was out in some cold stuff with my Ultralite at the weekend, like minus 2 or 3 and I was clothed up to the hilt.
As you know this bag is rated -7 but in reality I would say it's -2 from a comfort point of view.
I'm rather disturbed by some of these "ratings".
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby iGBH » Tue 02 Oct, 2012 6:35 pm

The fill weight of 450g in the Summerlite is comparable to other EN13537 rated bags with a limit level of -7c and a comfort of 0c. Of course, temperature ratings are still a very subjective measure despite the EN standard.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby forgie » Tue 02 Oct, 2012 7:12 pm

i had to draw the line with what i would actually use. The summerlite in WA which is where i will do much of my walking can be used as a winter and summer bag. I felt going anything "rated" lower, in anything i would normally expect would be useless. I currently have a mountain designs travelite 740 and to this date i have no ever had a night where i sleep well, i wake up atleast once dripping with sweat. Aslong as im pretty comfortable 70% of the time. i don't really mind. I had to way up the conditions i'd use it most in whilst still having the flexibility to use it in a bit colder climates
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby wayno » Wed 03 Oct, 2012 4:54 am

i'd be using the travelite in nz in autumn. cold can be a shock to the system if you're not used to it. its not exactly tropical where i live in auckland, but since moving from wellington i feel the cold more when i go down south.... theres a big difference to how much you acclimatise living in different weather conditions.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby forgie » Wed 03 Oct, 2012 7:42 pm

ahhh well. We shall indeed see. I'll base my decision on weather closer to the date. :D
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby nq111 » Wed 03 Oct, 2012 8:32 pm

forgie wrote:ahhh well. We shall indeed see. I'll base my decision on weather closer to the date. :D


Everyone is different in coping with cold and sounds like you have thought about this. I would be interested to hear how you go - a post trip report.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby wayno » Thu 04 Oct, 2012 6:51 am

mountain forecast

http://www.metservice.com/mountain/index

long range regional,

http://www.metservice.com/rural/index

predictions for spring weather is mild weather, but so far those predictions are very wrong.
i was thining of going to nelson lakes in early november but the way the weather is going and the forecasts are looking, i'll leave it till autumn as i've got other trips planned for summer
i'll be in marlborough and nelson in early december so we'll see what the weather has in store then...
last summer was a real fizzer here. not a lot of stable weather. rain and wind and cold with some warm days in between.
managed to get one tramp in in march between two severe storms that shut down several airports and stopped the interisland ferry running. there was a big dump of snow then
i was in fiordland at new years and there was frost one morning.
it was blowing 70k's and cold another day.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby blacksheep » Thu 04 Oct, 2012 9:44 am

We have a few 2012 bags in clearance you should also know about..
http://www.macpac-outlet.com.au/en_au/g ... eping-bags

I'd suggest the express 600 is a cracker deal,

The latitude 700xp may also fir the bill if you want a bit more versatiluty and a water resistant shell..
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby Mountain Rocket » Thu 04 Oct, 2012 11:32 am

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Re: sleeping bag

Postby roysta » Fri 05 Oct, 2012 8:51 pm

wayno wrote: its not exactly tropical where i live in auckland


ain't that the truth, and Hamilton ain't much better, hope you get down to the Desert Road occasionally.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby forgie » Sat 13 Oct, 2012 11:50 am

contemplating getting this for a down jacket
http://www.mainpeak.com.au/outdoor/clot ... -mens.html

or does this seem a bit overkill, does anyone have any experience with this jacket?
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 13 Oct, 2012 12:51 pm

Is a hood available??
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby forgie » Sat 13 Oct, 2012 2:54 pm

not too sure. i don't really like hooded jackets as is. so am not too fussed. I was hoping i could find a more mid weight jacket at around 300g with maybe 80g fill. any suggestions?
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby wayno » Sat 13 Oct, 2012 3:10 pm

that montane jacket will be pretty warm. good for winter.... great brand
overkill with down gear doesnt matter too much, its so light and packs down so small, it fu proofs you for the cold.
the "down sweater" category of thinner down jackets arent nearly as warm. some people wear those while hiking
Last edited by wayno on Sat 13 Oct, 2012 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sleeping bag

Postby forgie » Sat 13 Oct, 2012 3:19 pm

seems like it would be a good around camp piece of kit. with just a t-shirt on in the summer higher up in the hills. and i think its about 400g so not too bad :D ill maybe be going this one or the nitro. unless anyone else has good experience with others.
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