lightest, strongest, cheapest pyramid

[davidf]

Title says it all really. Discuss or opinion

[Mark F]

Its a case of pick 2, you won't achieve the third. Closest you will come is to myo one knowing your actual requirements.

[Giddy_up]

Not cheap though!!!

[jakeyarwood]

Not cheap though!!!

Is this a mid from Locus Gear by any chance? If so, what are your thoughts overall? If not, do tell more anyhow

[Giddy_up]

That is a HMG mid. I got it made out of the slightly heavier Cuben and it's been fantastic. That pic is taken on a little 8 day tour around the Bogong High Plain.

The mid has been in some pretty terrible weather now and has stood up to it all. Next test will be the Main Range this winter with an extended tour up there.


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[davidf]

Yes Markf i know its broad. There are lots about 1.5kg down if that narrows it. Cost is a factor and cuben seems out of the realm. I have my own list so to speak but owners opinions are what i, d really like to hear. A bomber tent with no frills, want a floor.

[Giddy_up]

Interesting that you want s floor. I've actually spoken to Evan at Terra Rossa gear and he thinks he can put a floor in my mid that bel Velcro's in for bad weather i.e. spindrift and then have it out in much nicer climates. Best of both worlds then.

Haven't been back to, so thanks for the reminder haha


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[jakeyarwood]

That is a HMG mid. I got it made out of the slightly heavier Cuben and it's been fantastic. That pic is taken on a little 8 day tour around the Bogong High Plain.

The mid has been in some pretty terrible weather now and has stood up to it all. Next test will be the Main Range this winter with an extended tour up there.


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I stand corrected I just assumed cause it looks black... Good to hear though! The HMG mids do look real bomber. I'm also considering a cuben mid but leaning towards Locus Gears offerings at present.

[jakeyarwood]

David, as noted above - I'm in the market for a cuben mid, but a few of those whom deal with cuben offer their mids in other fabrics, of which I'll list below.
I am yet to see one with a floor included though? Inner nets seems to be the standard here but perimeter netting and a separate groundsheet is also plausible? Some MYOG could be appropriate if you want a fully integrated perimeter netting and floor. Or a talk with Evan @ Terra Rosa Gear could be a good call, as noted by Giddy. Perhaps Evan may be willing to make you a mid from scratch too?

I will say though, I'm drawn to mids for their modular nature and 4 season capabilities. For example, a floorless mid allows you to use nothing else when conditions permit, you can use with a bivy when it gets cold or you can opt for an inner net w/ floor or stand alone bug net when the critters are out. So with this in mind, I'm uncertain why you'd want a floor given the extra weight incurred when there may be little benefit, but to each their own

Anyhow, as far as options go, here are those I know of that could be in the realm of what you are after:
- Locus Gear offer various mids in different fabrics (silnylon, tyvek, event, etc). All at a low weight and varying price points.
- Mountain Laurel Designs silnylon offerings
- Black Diamond make a pyramid style shelter called the Mega Light
- Oware produce a couple pyramid shelters available via their site bivysack.com
- Seek Outside produce a few tipi style shelters that may fit the bill? They look pretty cool but might not be what you want.

[Mark F]

As you are no doubt aware most mids add a separate inner when a floor/bug protection is required. Also consider the ZPacks Altaplex which is effectively a mid with floor. For some reason people don't see Zpacks as a manufacturer of mids but Joe's Hexamids and now the Altaplex are mids.

[Giddy_up]

When I was looking I nearly went with Locus Gear. Very well made and a lot of attention to detail, so if you go that way you won't be disappointed.

I went for HMG as it was bigger from memory than all the rest, not sure if that's still the case. You give up a bit of area with the sloping walls.

On snow, dig down and you can make a very spacious area.


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[jakeyarwood]

When I was looking I nearly went with Locus Gear. Very well made and a lot of attention to detail, so if you go that way you won't be disappointed.

I went for HMG as it was bigger from memory than all the rest, not sure if that's still the case. You give up a bit of area with the sloping walls.

On snow, dig down and you can make a very spacious area.


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Locus Gear's options look pretty spectacular! They're releasing a fully bonded version of their Khufu soon as well, but think I'll probably opt for their standard method as the new bonded shelter is quite a bit more expensive.

Fair enough - Locus Gear and most other manufacturers now offer their mids in comparable sizes to HMG's options I think. By the way... How much does yours weigh in the heavier cuben and what model is it?

Ah awesome!! With enough time you could make a pretty palatial dwelling with any mid in deep snow!

Hope some others can chime in with their thoughts on mids relative to the OP's requirements too.

[Gusto]

Cheapest might be Luxe found on Ebay

Best is subjective but I think designs like this is are very effective. http://www.mountainhardwear.com/hoopla-4-OU9615.html

[davidf]

Thanks all, and more advice and opinion is always welcome.

Has anyone ever put nrs patches on silnylon? The oware looks good but it seems not to have higher guy attachment points. i am about to get some patches for the packraft and would like an opinion, lower footprint is valued. Otherwise the duomid sil is the other front runner

[jakeyarwood]

The Hoopla looks pretty awesome Gusto. I've seen it before but never looked at the specs properly.

I have no idea regarding your question David however maybe drop Oware an email, they may be willing to add extra tie outs for a small fee
Can't go wrong with the MLD Duomid either, it looks truly epic and is tried and true to the fullest. I believe MLD are now using their new silnylon for all shelters too which is a bonus.
"Mountain Laurel Designs’ new 2016 Pro SilNyon is in stock and shipping. It is 30% stronger, 15% lighter and has 3X the waterproofness vs older versions. The WP is well above 5,000mm and this new coating will dramatically increase overall performance, durability and longevity of our shelters in the harshest conditions."
via: https://hikinginfinland.com/2016/02/new ... -2016.html

[earthairfire]

Glad to find this discussion - I'm in the middle of the same decision making vortex at the rest of you appear to be; I'm spinning between MLD solomid vs duomid vs Zpacks hexamid. I'd love the HMG ultamid2 as I love their gear and it's amazing quality, but the price is really out there compared to other options.

Nobody has yet mentioned Six Moon Designs, they have a few options too (not sure if they are strictly Mids?)

What are your thoughts on floor vs floorless? Adding an inner net and bathtub really ups the weight and the cost. Is floorless viable in Aus? I'm concerned about poisonous things coming to visit during the night, but have no experience going floorless, so not sure if it's just stupid paranoia, or an actual risk (I'm in Vic, and grew up in the UK?).

[Giddy_up]

I use mine without a floor and just use a bivi bag if needed. Only once have I had a bug run over my face and he was going pretty fast haha.

If you where in really wet camping conditions a bathtub floor would be a nice addition but a ground sheet will suffice and on snow in really high winds it would be nice to help stop spindrift.


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[jakeyarwood]

Glad to find this discussion - I'm in the middle of the same decision making vortex at the rest of you appear to be; I'm spinning between MLD solomid vs duomid vs Zpacks hexamid. I'd love the HMG ultamid2 as I love their gear and it's amazing quality, but the price is really out there compared to other options.

Nobody has yet mentioned Six Moon Designs, they have a few options too (not sure if they are strictly Mids?)

What are your thoughts on floor vs floorless? Adding an inner net and bathtub really ups the weight and the cost. Is floorless viable in Aus? I'm concerned about poisonous things coming to visit during the night, but have no experience going floorless, so not sure if it's just stupid paranoia, or an actual risk (I'm in Vic, and grew up in the UK?).

Vortex is an apt description. I still haven't made up my mind entirely yet
I'd say go with the Duomid over the Solomid though. Mostly because you get more usable space for a minimal weight gain. The foot print is still fairly small, especially compared to other more standard 2P shelters. Typically (solo) folk setup in the back half of the Duomid, using the front half as a vestibule. It seems that when you're opening the door on any mid you're exposing a fair chunk of your interior space to the elements so the larger size means there's less chance of critical kit getting wet in a downpour. That being said, this guy has over 6000 miles on his Solomid
http://bobcat-tracks.blogspot.com.au/20 ... n-big.html
There are various threads over at http://www.backpackinglight.com regarding all these shelters which could help (or confuse) you... I figure you have probably already browsed BPL though?
It's hard to advise further as you haven't given any details as to what you want to get out of the shelter. In any case, you cant go wrong no matter what you end up with IMO.

Good point re: SMD! I'm not sure if they're strictly mids either but they have a few shelters that are definitely a similar style to a conventional mid.

As I mentioned above, I personally feel like floorless is the way to go. The modular thing really has appeal to me anyway. Site selection is real important if you go floorless as you have a lower margin of error if it does end up raining.
I'm also from the UK, been here a couple years now... I've cowboy camped more times than I can count (i.e no protection, just ground sheet/pad/quilt etc) and have never had an issue regarding creatures. Mosquitoes can be problematic but no creepy crawlies or slithering friends have decided to keep me company at night yet

[earthairfire]

Thanks for the thoughts.

I mainly camp in a hammock with cuben tarp, but need (would like) something for winter and alpine adventures, plus for when there are no trees! I have a Terra Nova Ultra Quasar from my pre-ultralight days which is bombproof, but the thought of carrying a 3.6kg tent for me to sleep in alone just depresses me!

I figured the mids looked like a great option for 1) ultralight, 2) high wind and snow, 3) modularity.

I'm leaning towards the silnylon duomid at present, unless I stumble across a 2nd hand cuben mid in the next few days (or most likely take the plunge anyway and then have guilt pangs for spending so much cash on a tent!).

Do any of you have experience with mids and spindrift? I'm considering getting a snowskirt fitted, but know the extra grams will annoy me for the 9 months of the year when I don't need it.

Cheers,

Tim

[Giddy_up]

Spindrift get in everywhere. I would spend 20 minutes each afternoon digging my mid down and then back filling against the sides of the tent to avoid or mitigate spindrift. One very bad night I had a guy line just become slack a little and it allowed the tent wall to wobble in the wind and this movement allowed pushed the snow I had around the bottom of the tent away and made a small gap. I woke in the morning snug in my bivy bag to the inside of the tent being covered in spindrift. I should add that it's just part of the game of snow camping. People with double wall tents who have to leave all their gear in the vestibule will suffer the same fate.

Most of the time I was fine and very successful but when Mother Nature decides to turn it on, you will get spindrift. I'm just working on a solution with a floor now which will fit in with my style of walking and won't penalise me with weight too and will allow me to remove the floor when it's not needed. When it's really bad you need all your gear inside with you as it will freeze pack straps and buckles, stuff sacks, stoves, boots and laces etc,etc........you get the idea.

You will learn so much about your gear and what you need and don't need after you do an extended walk on snow of 6 or more days as you're pretty much guaranteed some bad weather in that time frame. If you survive that all other walks seem easy

[earthairfire]

Has anyone used an 8 sided pyramid? Any thoughts on pros vs cons?
I've been offered a Cuben version of the Locus Gear Apollo at a pretty decent price, but can find very little about it online.

(not intending to hijack this thread; happy to move if anyone thinks this is off topic)
Cheers,
Tim

[Chezza]

An 8-sided pyramid is approaching a tipi shape, so it should be more aerodynamic that a 4-sided pyramid. Not sure how much by, C_d figures for tent shapes are hard to come by.

It will also be heavier and have a larger footprint than a 4-sided mid of the same shape.

The Apollo is 270 x 270 x 170 (cm). For comparison the HMG Ultamid 4 is 280 x 280 x 190. So the Apollo should be better in wind but has significantly less useable space. It's a palace for one, should take two people easily. You'll need a long pole or straps to lash poles together.

If you're happy with the weight and large footprint I'd say go for it. Locus make good gear and if it's bonded it should be strong enough.

[jakeyarwood]

Glad to see a fellow hanger on here! I ordered a Hammock Gear cuben tarp last week. Exciting stuff. Anyhow...

Chezza makes numerous good points.

I'd say that overall the Apollo, even in Cuben, will come out a little heavier (or significantly so, depending on the configuration you opt for) than any of your other options with all things considered. How much does that CTF3 model weigh though? I'm intrigued!
I assume the minimum number of stakes to set the shelter up is much higher than a regular mid too. Perhaps double the amount? Then consider the extra stake weight for any panel pull tie outs you wish to use. If you're going to be using this in snowy conditions then those snow stakes/anchors add up the grams pretty fast (typical titanium snow stakes are about 18 grams each [via dutchware]).
A dedicated pole of that height ought to add 364 grams (this is how much the Easton pole weighs that LG stock), or if you're strapping two hiking poles together then I guess there may be some extra fiddle factor, however minor. The standard inner for the Apollo is also 545 grams. Alternatively a lightweight bivy would be around 200 grams give or take. The added complexity of the tipi style design also means there could be more to go wrong? I doubt anything would ever fail though as it's probably a quality bit of kit from a highly regarded manufacturer. Just saying anyway

Nonetheless, it would definitely weigh much less your current Quasar and it does look truly rad. Heck, I think even with all of the above you'd still have a very respectable 4 season setup that could endure anything at a reasonable weight. I spoke with one of the folks at Locus Gear about their CTF3 Khufu and it withstood an overnight blizzard in February in North Spain. Regarding wind speeds, I quote from the email: "According to the local weather report, it was 100km/h and 27m/sec." So I imagine the Apollo could easily withstand such conditions. It seems to fit the bill and it certainly would be amazingly palatial too!

For any technical info I'd recommend reaching out to Locus Gear if the seller can't fill you in. They're quick to respond and real helpful. Maybe inquiring as to why they no longer offer the CTF3 model of their Apollo would be a good idea? In terms of construction, I feel like it'd be mostly sewn with bonding around the apex and zipper seams (going off what they told me of their current building techniques for their cuben Khufu). They've never had any reports of seams leaking by the way, it would appear they use a really specialised method for sewing cuben.

[Giddy_up]

Something that might help all mid users. If you are going to use hiking poles to support your tent you generally need two and lash them together or carry an extension.

Leki make a pole that's called their Photosystem Carbon. This pole will extend to 170cm which I think makes it the longest pole possible and negates the need for straps or the extender. Worth considering when using taller mids.


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[earthairfire]

Glad to see a fellow hanger on here! I ordered a Hammock Gear cuben tarp last week.

I have their 'standard with doors' - it's awesome and weighs nothing. You'll not be disappointed!

How much does that CTF3 model weigh though? I'm intrigued!

Me too. I'm waiting to find out.

those snow stakes/anchors add up the grams pretty fast (typical titanium snow stakes are about 18 grams each [via dutchware]).

good point!

For any technical info I'd recommend reaching out to Locus Gear if the seller can't fill you in. They're quick to respond and real helpful.

Great to know, thanks!

Maybe inquiring as to why they no longer offer the CTF3 model of their Apollo would be a good idea?

They never have offered it; it's a one-off custom.

I feel like it'd be mostly sewn with bonding around the apex and zipper seams

Apparently they are sewn and then have had mylar tape applied over them

Thanks for so much detailed feedback. Not sure it's helping me climb out the vortex, or fall deeper, but it's really interesting either way!

[earthairfire]

An 8-sided pyramid is approaching a tipi shape, so it should be more aerodynamic that a 4-sided pyramid. Not sure how much by, C_d figures for tent shapes are hard to come by.

It will also be heavier and have a larger footprint than a 4-sided mid of the same shape.

The Apollo is 270 x 270 x 170 (cm). For comparison the HMG Ultamid 4 is 280 x 280 x 190. So the Apollo should be better in wind but has significantly less useable space. It's a palace for one, should take two people easily. You'll need a long pole or straps to lash poles together.

If you're happy with the weight and large footprint I'd say go for it. Locus make good gear and if it's bonded it should be strong enough.

Great observations. I don't have the weight of the Apollo yet; looks like this is likely a deciding factory!

[earthairfire]

Something that might help all mid users. If you are going to use hiking poles to support your tent you generally need two and lash them together or carry an extension.

Leki make a pole that's called their Photosystem Carbon. This pole will extend to 170cm which I think makes it the longest pole possible and negates the need for straps or the extender. Worth considering when using taller mids.


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Cool, thanks will check it out. I specifically bought fixed length poles as they are lighter, but now have the challenge of fixing them together which I never considered at the time I bought them!

[Aushiker]

Given the discussion here of the Locus Gear, I just checked them out. Had not heard of them before. The Khufu CTF3 looks a possibility maybe in combination with a bivvy. Does anyone know what the pack size is by any chance? Also on the Khufu CTF3 page it states "In addition, the optional parts DPTE makes inner space more comfortable and allow 2 persons to use." Can someone explain the DPTE reference?

Thanks

[earthairfire]

Can someone explain the DPTE reference?

"Double Pole Tip Extender"
This site mentions it in their review: http://hikeitlikeit.com/2012/locus-gear-khufu/

The same site also mentions that the packed size is approx 4.5 x 11"

[Aushiker]

Can someone explain the DPTE reference?

"Double Pole Tip Extender"
This site mentions it in their review: http://hikeitlikeit.com/2012/locus-gear-khufu/

The same site also mentions that the packed size is approx 4.5 x 11"

Thanks. I hadn't see the review.