48g Kathmandu stove ripoff

[Tony]

Sometime ago I posted about a 48g gas stove that was available from DE-Martitime China, the stove cost US$35. Kathmandu now market this stove and they are asking A$120. Unfortunately the stove is temorarily unavailable from DE maritime.

I feel this is a typical Kathmandu ripoff and I thought I should warn unsuspecting buyers that the stove can be purchased for around a third of the Kathmandu price.

Tony

[ollster]

I feel this is a typical Kathmandu ripoff and I thought I should warn unsuspecting buyers that the stove can be purchased for around a third of the Kathmandu price.

Tony

Caveat emptor Kathmandu!

[Nuts]

Well it does have a brand name logo

I wonder the price by the 000's? :

http://www.dinodirect.com/Fire-Maple-FM ... um%20stove

[Tony]

Well it does have a brand name logo

I wonder the price by the 000's? :

http://www.dinodirect.com/Fire-Maple-FM ... um%20stove

Thanks for that link, A$53.30 delivered.

Tony

[corvus]

Just like the Headlight I previously mentioned $5.95 landed with batteries (no logo on strap), $9.95 with logo in local Allgoods shop, $39.95 with Kathmandu logo
c

[Nuts]

Well it does have a brand name logo

I wonder the price by the 000's? :

http://www.dinodirect.com/Fire-Maple-FM ... um%20stove

Thanks for that link, A$53.30 delivered.

Tony

I'd still hold out for you to storm the market with that low profile 'tiny tony' on your blog. Thats a work of art

[Tony]

I'd still hold out for you to storm the market with that low profile 'tiny tony' on your blog. Thats a work of art

I could do some stoves to sell but I would have to put a few extra zero's on the price.

Tony

[ninjapuppet]

wow! and this looks like my crux, but 1/5 the price
http://www.dinodirect.com/Fire-Maple-FMS-109-Portable-Camping-Butane-Stove-currency-AUD.html


Thanks for the link Nuts

[corvus]

Yes thanks Nuts I guess my stove collection has just grown
corvus

[Tony]

wow! and this looks like my crux, but 1/5 the price
http://www.dinodirect.com/Fire-Maple-FMS-109-Portable-Camping-Butane-Stove-currency-AUD.html


Thanks for the link Nuts

Buy these Chinese stove copies with caution, I have read stove test reports and some of these copy stoves do not perform anywhere near as well as the original, especially with CO levels.

That said the 48g DE-Martime stove has been tested for CO levels and is OK.

Tony

[Nuts]

Ive wondered before about buying stoves from OS. Will they not have passed regulations here, do Kathmandu stoves...? I did read someones mention of Fire Maple as one of the biggest (and better?) manufacturers. Perhaps their stoves are just re-branded. What determines the level of CO output difference between two identical (looking) stoves Tony?

The Dino link has been given before, think I bookmarked it from here? Adam maybe?

I like the Brunton base idea but was actually looking for something that will end up low profile (enough) to sit inside a Caldera (U/L) base..

[rucksack]

Fire Maple and Bulin are the two most prominent 'local' stove brands in China. They are both made in the same factory in Zhejiang Province, nearby to Shanghai. Both were wholly outsourcing manufacturers, that is, they originally only made stoves for others, primarily US & European brands. Of more recent years, first Fire Maple and now Bulin, have started putting out stoves under their own name and trying to build their own brand. Many of these stoves show their design 'origins', (i.e. the US & European brands that they have long produced stoves for), but lately Fire Maple, in particular, has started putting out some more orginal designs, though both still continue to produce for others, especially for wholly on-line stores, (which many members have already found). The prices of Fire Maple and Bulin stoves in the outdoor shops within China are very competitive and the quality of the Fire Maple stoves is becoming quite good. As far as I am aware Coleman, Brunton, Optimus, Primus and MSR, as well as some lesser known Japanese brands, still have manufacturing done in mainland China, Taiwan or Korea. Many of you will know, for instance, that MSR have their Pocket Rocket manufactured by Kovea in South Korea, whilst making all their other stoves in the USA. I was recently informed by Optimus' agent in Hong Kong that the Nova and Nova+ were being manufactured in China (although I don't know if that is still the case after the recall of these two models), whilst their reintroduced 123R is being manufactured in Taiwan. Kathmandu have simply joined a long, long queue, choosing from the very many models of butane gas stoves now being manufactured in China. The prices of all these stoves (which are all available in China, of course), fluctuate wildly, but are a lot less than Kathmandu's asking price. US and European brands are the same price in China as they in Australia. In Hong Kong, prices are generally within a few dollars of US store prices for the same stoves.

I think that it is a case of buyer beware. If the re-branded stove that you are buying on-line is a Fire Maple, you will probably be fine. If it's a Bulin, the quality will (in my experience), often be a lot less than you might desire. So, buying these stoves on-line can be risky when you won't know which is which. As I say, caveat emptor.

rucksack

[johnw]

Interestingly a few months back I bought a Fire Maple brand windscreen from Adventure Megastore in Kent St in the Sydney CBD. I haven't used it yet but hope to in a couple of weeks. Anyway, I think at the time they did have a few Fire Maple stoves but last time I was there I didn't see any. So if a local retailer was/is stocking them can we expect that they should meet regulatory requirements?

http://www.adventuremegastore.ashop.com.au/p/1180484/fire-maple-fms-109-stove.html

[Tony]

Ive wondered before about buying stoves from OS. Will they not have passed regulations here, do Kathmandu stoves...? I did read someones mention of Fire Maple as one of the biggest (and better?) manufacturers. Perhaps their stoves are just re-branded. What determines the level of CO output difference between two identical (looking) stoves Tony?

Some good questions, I have yet to check if the Kathmandu stoves have passed regulations, but I know that if not they will be made to, BTW when I checked it was $2k -10k to get a stove passed in Australia. The stoves purchased over the net do not have to pass Australian regs.

I will have to check, but my memory thinks that some Chinese copy stoves have small differences to get around patent laws, I recall reading a report that tested two similar stoves one branded and one Chinese copy, the copy had a much higher level of CO, I will do some research to where I read this tonight and post.

Tony

[blacksheep]

in short, all stoves imported en-mass and legally into AU will have passed standards test. It is not a voluntary test or certification, it is a legal requirement. Individual imports/purchased via the www of course will not be tested, (although they may actually meet standards). The cost of the test process is amazingly high (circa 10k), but not high enough to justify some of the variations in pricing cited here when amortised over a decent quantity.

[Tony]

in short, all stoves imported en-mass and legally into AU will have passed standards test. It is not a voluntary test or certification, it is a legal requirement. Individual imports/purchased via the www of course will not be tested, (although they may actually meet standards). The cost of the test process is amazingly high (circa 10k), but not high enough to justify some of the variations in pricing cited here when amortised over a decent quantity.

Thanks for that information Blacksheep, it is appreciated.

I hope things are going OK in Christchurch for you and Macpac.

Tony

[wander]

What a priceless story, comparing the Fire Maple with the Kathmandu the difference would have to be the price and some small differences in pot holdery arms.

And why do we have to certify it in Australia if is certified in say the USA or Europe? We are special.

The Department Of Ever Changing Names Thas Looks After Planes spent a few million dollars certifiying an aircaft from the USA that had passed all their requirements and been in operation for a couple of years. After some time and lots of money teh recomendation was to provide a pocket behind the seat for the Flight Manual, otherwise good to go in Ozzy skies.

We are so special.

And the ironic thing is there a lots of drugs and food addatives that are banned in other parts of the world (soem for many years) that are all good to go here.

So the "must be certified to meet Oz standards" does not wash with me if it has been already been certified to a standard, lets say and ISO or DIN or similiar. Seems to work OK for NZ that treats a lot of things this way.

[Tony]

I will have to check, but my memory thinks that some Chinese copy stoves have small differences to get around patent laws, I recall reading a report that tested two similar stoves one branded and one Chinese copy, the copy had a much higher level of CO, I will do some research to where I read this tonight and post.

Seems my memory is not quite as good as I thought, I found the BPL report Made in China - A State of the Market Report and the Fire maple stoves are very similar in performance and CO levels to the name brands that where copied but on some the CO levels are very high at high power but this is the same as the similar brand name stoves.

With the FMS 109 and FMS 116 the problem with the CO levels are with the very low pot supports, this does not allow enough time for the air to mix, according to the article if the pots are raised 20mm the CO levels drop to acceptable levels. The stated boil times are much faster than the test show but this is STD practice with most western stove manufactures.

Citation: "Made in China - A State of the Market Report," by Roger Caffin. BackpackingLight.com (ISSN 1537-0364).
http://backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/bac ... china.html, 2009-09-10 00:05:00-06.

Tony

[Lindsay]

I have used one of these Fire Maple stoves for some time now and have had no problems whatsoever. Cost me $54 including shipping but still a great bargain. A great bit of kit I would reccommend to anyone. Kathmandu does seem to be ripping people off.

[rucksack]

If anyone wants to peruse the Fire Maple and Bulin stove and cookware catalogues, here are the URLs.

Fire Maple English language web site URL ..

http://firemaple128.diytrade.com/sdp/59 ... talog.html

Bulin English language web site URL ...

http://www.cnbulin.com/en/product.asp

rucksack

[corvus]

Big price reduction it is $110.95 in my local Kathmandu Shop so with discount it will only be $ 30.00 more than I paid for mine
corvus