Bushwalk Australia

Posted: **Sun 08 Nov, 2009 5:12 pm**

so i have just got back from an overnighter at freycinet with my scouts, did about 16km over the 2 days, basically over to wineglass, across the isthmus, then back along hazzards.

now about 10 mins into it, one of the scouts decided it was all to hard etc etc etc. by the end of the trip, tears had been had numerous times and i ended up carrying his pack ontop of mine.
he was carrying no more weight than any of the other scouts, and he was definatly fitter than most of them, but he just could not cope with it all.

the only girl on the trip, had to carry her own tent (scouts guidlines, girls sleep seperate from boys etc etc. all the boys shared the weight of there tent between them) and is not at all fit, she gets exhausted running the length of the scout hall! she made it the whole way with no hassles, just the odd complaint of sore feet, but it wouldnt slow her down.

so what im wondering is, how much of this walking bizzo is mental and how much is physical?
i dont consider myself to be overly fit, but i am always adament that i will make it to the end and ill damn well enjoy it! and as such, i always make it to the end and i usually feel pretty good at the end of it.
but the people who decide they wont be able to do it, they end up finding it harder than everyone else.... negative thinking leading to negative results?

who really thinks that you need a decent level of fitness for this? mind over matter conquers all, i have believed this in large part for most my life, this walk has made me feel this really is the case now...

Posted: **Sun 08 Nov, 2009 5:35 pm**

Fitness can definitely help - especially with age

I was better prepared due to training at 49 yrs old than my 3 strapping young boys with me - and I easily beat them up moraine A.
However, they bounce back much quicker and were later overhauling me - especially on some mountain goat walks where I was being a bit more careful.
Granted I also had the camera - so odds on I was always lagging behind.

But mental attitude is much more important. I find it hard to do exercise merely for its own sake. But get me on a basketball court and the push is much stronger. Get me onto a bushwalk and the incentive goes way up. You will put up with a lot more pain and inconvenience if you are itching to get to a great view or a magical place. Though over time the interest in the minutia along the track is growing, and that slows you down.

Conversely though - you can also go very fast when you have no interest in bushwalking.
Case in point was a group of young lads with some parents/leaders on the OT last year. Some of them walked each leg as fast as they could - easily passing us at a cracking pace. Reason? So they could get to the next hut and relax and play cards. I think the leaders were scratching their heads as to why the surroundings were not of great interest to them. :lol:

Posted: **Sun 08 Nov, 2009 6:29 pm**

Macca81 wrote:so i have just got back from an overnighter at freycinet with my scouts, did about 16km over the 2 days, basically over to wineglass, across the isthmus, then back along hazzards.

now about 10 mins into it, one of the scouts decided it was all to hard etc etc etc. by the end of the trip, tears had been had numerous times and i ended up carrying his pack ontop of mine.
he was carrying no more weight than any of the other scouts, and he was definatly fitter than most of them, but he just could not cope with it all.

the only girl on the trip, had to carry her own tent (scouts guidlines, girls sleep seperate from boys etc etc. all the boys shared the weight of there tent between them) and is not at all fit, she gets exhausted running the length of the scout hall! she made it the whole way with no hassles, just the odd complaint of sore feet, but it wouldnt slow her down.

so what im wondering is, how much of this walking bizzo is mental and how much is physical?
i dont consider myself to be overly fit, but i am always adament that i will make it to the end and ill damn well enjoy it! and as such, i always make it to the end and i usually feel pretty good at the end of it.
but the people who decide they wont be able to do it, they end up finding it harder than everyone else.... negative thinking leading to negative results?

who really thinks that you need a decent level of fitness for this? mind over matter conquers all, i have believed this in large part for most my life, this walk has made me feel this really is the case now...

G'day Maacca81,
I am a retired Scouter and have found that most kids of Scout age were more than capable of "self contained hikes" and I believe that mental attitude is the answer.
corvus

Posted: **Sun 08 Nov, 2009 8:28 pm**

My best mate in school was a national-level runner, and I was an overweight chain-smoker. I could walk rings around him. I reckon 70% in the head.

Posted: **Sun 08 Nov, 2009 10:10 pm**

I think there is a lot of psychology going on when bushwalking. I have found that when I walk last in line I feel exhausted quicker than walking first. Of course if I walk first I set the walking pace, but I do not walk slow and usually people ask me to slow down, but when the same people walk infront of me I feel like I can't keep up with them. Odd, eh :lol:

Posted: **Mon 09 Nov, 2009 6:30 pm**

I am with you on that one Sam, leading the way I always seem to have a bit extra but if I am anywhere else I need that bit extra.

Roger

Posted: **Mon 09 Nov, 2009 7:06 pm**

That makes 3 of us... I normally walk with my wife, and much prefer leading. We do share though. But if the going is at all tough, being in front makes it seem easier.

Re the scout with the tears, perhaps a pep talk before the walk might have been needed, like busloads of overweight tourists do this walk, it's not difficult, blah blah... Plant the seed before the walk that all will be well, give a bit of self confidence... But clearly aprehension sounds like an understatement. Though, I'm not a psychologist and it's been a long tome since I was a kid.
I imagine it would be hard to judge each persons mental preparedness for a walk if you were their scout master.

Posted: **Mon 09 Nov, 2009 7:29 pm**

tasadam wrote:T
I imagine it would be hard to judge each persons mental preparedness for a walk if you were their scout master.

As a Scouter I could pick out the child who would perhaps struggle (it was mental) but what was I to do ban him from this walk??
No we took him and looked after him like true Scouts and he did enjoy the walk (and may other camps and walks) companionship and " SKIPS real good cooking", one poor kid did eventually end up with a mental snap and I have lost touch with his current situation

corvus

PS Scouters /Scout Leaders have not been Scout Masters for many years

Posted: **Mon 09 Nov, 2009 7:35 pm**

It's all good Corvus, I was referring to my comment about a pep talk, trying to work out the mental preparedness of a youngster that you aren't with day-in day-out, and knowing whether they needed it before the walk. Hardly want to see someone left at home and miss an experience the outdoors has to offer.
No scout masters for many years? Now I AM getting old... :!:

Or is it all in the mind?

Posted: **Mon 09 Nov, 2009 9:21 pm**

this kid is one that i had expected to struggle, but as you say corvus, who am i to tell him he cant come?? at the end of the day, he finished the walk, i dont think he enjoyed it while he was doing it, but he was pleased when he finished.

adam, im not even old enough to have ever called my leaders 'scout masters'... i know of many that are from that time, but it was sure before mine

Posted: **Mon 09 Nov, 2009 11:09 pm**

corvus wrote:
tasadam wrote:T
I imagine it would be hard to judge each persons mental preparedness for a walk if you were their scout master.

As a Scouter I could pick out the child who would perhaps struggle (it was mental) but what was I to do ban him from this walk??
No we took him and looked after him like true Scouts and he did enjoy the walk (and many other camps and walks) companionship and " SKIPS real good cooking",poor kid did eventually end up with a mental snap and I have lost touch with his current situation
corvus

PS Scouters /Scout Leaders have not been Scout Masters for many years

Posted: **Tue 10 Nov, 2009 1:56 pm**

Its got to be around 70% mental. I did Federation Peak with a 60+ leader (his actual age remains a mystery) and he led many sections and often faster than the 18yo 'spring chicken' he had with him

On the other side, of course, walking is not just fitness: it's how you deal with rain, sleeping on the ground, leeches, ticks, mossies, river crossings, eating out of a little pot, not having a toilet, illness... these bits are definitely, 99% in your mind.

Posted: **Tue 10 Nov, 2009 8:57 pm**

Its got to be around 70% mental

At least I rekon. I am overweight and not overly fit,(and 64) but I can usually get to wherever just by a bit of pigheadedness and telling myself to keep going.

Age will win eventually but I wont go down without a struggle.

ff

Posted: **Wed 11 Nov, 2009 12:16 pm**

Content removed by poster

Posted: **Wed 11 Nov, 2009 12:45 pm**

Brett wrote:A team member carrying a tripod must strike dread in a fast moving peak bagging group

Nay, scorn. :wink:

I used to be a sooky kid, but once I realised that pain wasn't real I started to enjoy my walking. I find the more frustrated I get, the less the scrub, pain and weather bothers me as I get into this deep, bl00dy-minded focus. There's not really a word for it, so how about "scrub-rage psycosis"?

Posted: **Wed 11 Nov, 2009 2:17 pm**

ollster wrote:but once I realised that pain wasn't real I started to enjoy my walking.

i like this... it reminds me of a quote i heard once... "Most stop when they begin to tire. Good men go until they think they are going to collapse, but the very best know that the mind tires before the body, and pushes themselves further and further....beyond all limits. Only when all of these limits have been shattered, can the unattainable be reached!"

pain is only a mental thing... granted that it is designed to make you stop b4 your body physicaly fails, it is still only mental. physical pain doesnt exist... (this is bordering on philosophy now i think...)

Posted: **Thu 12 Nov, 2009 6:52 am**

ollster:
There's not really a word for it, so how about "scrub-rage psycosis"?

Vikings had berserkers, we have Ollie

Posted: **Thu 12 Nov, 2009 7:03 am**

As an aside, as much as I've tried to use the same mental technique to deal with my fear of heights, ledges more than 2m off the ground still un-man me.

Posted: **Thu 12 Nov, 2009 8:23 am**

Content removed by poster

Posted: **Thu 12 Nov, 2009 12:13 pm**

Brett wrote: As for heights I hold fear is nature's way of keeping the wise alive

Cheers Brett

Your comment brings back to mind a story I heard in the 1970's from the retired Brisbane Fire Chief about how he developed training systems to sort out the applicants for firefighters to weed out those too reckless or timid ie having enough "fear" to not kill yourself, but a "fear" threshold that would allow you to take prompt action and appropriate risks when required. In the Brisbane fire services HQ they had a training room that had a crawl space constructed around three sides with hinged covers that a trainee had to start at one end with fireproof overalls and respirator. As they crawled through the tunnel, sacks of sand had to be moved out of the way to make progress, and the smoke and temperature were gradually cranked up. There was a "zone" in which the appropriate "fear" rated trainees would knock on the sides to get out having had enough. Knock too soon or too late and you failed. :oops:

Posted: **Thu 12 Nov, 2009 1:12 pm**

Content removed by poster

Posted: **Mon 16 Nov, 2009 9:16 am**

but once I realised that pain wasn't real I started to enjoy my walking.

good one ollie, I can relate to that.
Descending moraine K last saturday after walking for too many hours, I felt like my feet were being destroyed and that it was almost too much. But after checking that my feet were actually ok/not destroyed, I felt much better about continuing. Oh I'm pretty sure they did need a rest, but the fact that I could see no developing blisters was enough for me. Kinda like those kids who only start crying when they see their actual wound, but the other way round

At one stage later on that day (yes it was a long day), I was feeling pretty low as our destination was still hours away. But it was amazing what a short break to cook up some food did to our morale. I hadn't realised how low my energy levels were because I just didn't feel hungry. So yeah keeping energy levels up helps. Heh, we were little more than machines that day. Just put food in and it keeps going..

Starting an indepth discussion with a walking partner or listening to music can be helpful. It distracts the mind from thinking about sleeping/being soft.
So I agree, the mind is definitely the greater factor.

Posted: **Mon 16 Nov, 2009 10:51 am**

Nick S wrote:...I felt like my feet were being destroyed ...

At one stage later on that day (yes it was a long day), I was feeling pretty low as our destination was still hours away. But it was amazing what a short break to cook up some food did to our morale. I hadn't realised how low my energy levels were because I just didn't feel hungry. So yeah keeping energy levels up helps. Heh, we were little more than machines that day. Just put food in and it keeps going..

I do love that burning sensation my feet get around the 7 hour mark on hard tracks. I do find that off track walking is so much nicer on my feel and joints than track walking.

Good observations. I also certainly notice very quickly the effect of a drop in sugar levels. Eating and drinking constantly is a pretty important thing on longer days I find. Nothing worse than a sugar-crash for the state of mind, especially as it usually involves watching people walk off on you. :mrgreen:

I know when I become badly dehydrated or exhausted I usually don't feel like eating or drinking, and it's a dangerous trap! I do find that because your metabolism is cranked up, a quick meal can get you going again pretty fast.

Morale management is a big issue (especially when indoctrinating new walkers)! If we occupy their mind with incessant conversation, then maybe we can control their SCRUB MADNESS!

ILSWT has fairly decent taste in music, and is usually pretty happy to talk about it!

Posted: **Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:48 pm**

Macca81 wrote:now about 10 mins into it, one of the scouts decided it was all to hard etc etc etc. by the end of the trip, tears had been had numerous times and i ended up carrying his pack ontop of mine.
he was carrying no more weight than any of the other scouts, and he was definatly fitter than most of them, but he just could not cope with it all.

the only girl on the trip, had to carry her own tent (scouts guidlines, girls sleep seperate from boys etc etc. all the boys shared the weight of there tent between them) and is not at all fit, she gets exhausted running the length of the scout hall! she made it the whole way with no hassles, just the odd complaint of sore feet, but it wouldnt slow her down.

I think you've answered your own question. All the physical preparation in the world will not help with a poor attitude. Was this the first such outing this boy had been on?

Posted: **Mon 16 Nov, 2009 2:47 pm**

Lindsay wrote:
Macca81 wrote:now about 10 mins into it, one of the scouts decided it was all to hard etc etc etc. by the end of the trip, tears had been had numerous times and i ended up carrying his pack ontop of mine.
he was carrying no more weight than any of the other scouts, and he was definatly fitter than most of them, but he just could not cope with it all.

the only girl on the trip, had to carry her own tent (scouts guidlines, girls sleep seperate from boys etc etc. all the boys shared the weight of there tent between them) and is not at all fit, she gets exhausted running the length of the scout hall! she made it the whole way with no hassles, just the odd complaint of sore feet, but it wouldnt slow her down.

I think you've answered your own question. All the physical preparation in the world will not help with a poor attitude. Was this the first such outing this boy had been on?

first overnighter as far as i know... but then i found out this weekend just gone that both his parents do a fair bit of walking, so i couldnt be certain that he hasnt done it outside of scouting.

Bushwalk Australia

It's all in the mind, you know...

It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...

Re: It's all in the mind, you know...