Value of bushwalking clubs

[mikethepike]

Hi! Those who followed the previous topic "Is off track walking dying?" will recognise that it evolved into discussion on the changing demographics of bushwalking club membership and I thought that this was a subject worth following up.
I started bushwalking with a University 's bushwalking club about 40 years ago and it was a wonderful experience that had a pivital influence on my life. I've kept up the bushwalking ever since with friends or solo but I joined a bushwalking club a few years ago mainly to get amongst like-minded people. Generally I have to say that the experience has been disappointing and I still do more walks outside the club than with it. While I've put several extended walks on the club program, they have been poorly supported and I've been told that people won't go on trips with leaders they don't know. I'm not sure if that's the nature of older people in general (club membership has an average age of probably just over 50 years old compared with 30 years old back in the 1960s - my estimates only) or the club's culture.
Maybe things have changed in society but I find that the club puts too much emphasis on protocols (leader endorsement, walk plans in duplicate etc) and has too few extended trips on the program. Newer club members with no prior bushwalking experience could be years waiting for any of many fantastic walks to be on the walks program because the older members have already done them and the younger ones (40 to 60 years old) don't seem interested enough to make them happen. For these and a few other reasons, (e.g slow walking pace, too many rest stops, short walking days, bushwalking rarely seems to be a topic of conversation), I continuue to question whether the membership is worth the annual fee (a third of it for insurance) and the time spent travelling to/from and attending meetings. In the end though and at least for the present, I continue on as a member because I think that even one good trip you do in a year that you wouldn't otherwise have done, can make it worthwhile and I continue to be an optomist and believe that things will get better and of course you do start to make new friendships.
Certainly, due to club demographics and some of the other things mentioned, I don't see existing clubs having much appeal to young people even if they showed initial interest in joining.
I would be interested to read other people's expriences and thoughts on this topic.

[Julafreak]

hmm.. I would be in no position to make any useful comments as Ive just started picking up bushwalking not long ago. Ive also just recently attended my first walk with the university's bushwalking club. But from what you've described, if you ask me, I wouldnt be interested in joining a club if that's the case. I would have had more fun doing informal walks with people on this forum!

[DonQx]

Interesting topic this, makes for great debates around the fire (or stoves, as the case may be)

I've been member of a large walking club for maybe close to 20 years. And I organise club walks reasonably regularly ~3-5 times a year.

Things have changed hugely ... we used to have at least 1 if not 2+ overnite walks on the program every weekend. Not any more. 1 or 2 per month is more like it now. The average age has gone up, young members rarely join. Used to have families with kids on walks.

The above are just observations, not complaints or whatever. Life/society/etc. is changing and maybe the traditional style of club is dying out. Maybe to be replaced by networks, like this forum?

People knowing you makes a big difference in organising walks. I tend to get 4-8 coming along on my style of trips (cruisy, sometimes somewhat obscure location ... like my current obsession with 'micro-exploring' Southport Lagoon). We have one organiser in the club who often does fairly 'iconic' walks (Walls of J, South Coast, Central Plateau, OT, ...) ... he's often booked out within days of listing his next walk.

Is it worth being in a club? Yes for me, coz ....
- I've met quite a few really great people that way over the years
- I appreciate the option of joining a walk at short notice
- I appreciate the knowledge base we have in the club

... there's more ... have to go ...

a.

[tasadam]

Personally I like to walk with just my wife and myself. Even with the strollers walks I have been tempted to come along for the social experience - it's not that I don't like people, just that when I walk I like to do things in my time, in my way. One of these things is photography, so if I was walking with people, I would be more mindful of long pauses while I took a photo, I would probably be inclined to not stop for a photo when walking with other people because of the time I take.
(I don't point-and-shoot, I set up the tripod, consider right angles, lighting, which lens, all sorts of things, so it takes a bit of time).

Regarding clubs in general, I do believe they have their place. When I was in Hobart I considered a walking club, indeed went on a day walk with them down the peninsula once.
I can see their benefit for like-minded people - someone to walk with for the security that someone else is there (particularly when gaining experience), where to go, transport (shared) to location, all sorts of reasons - meeting people with similar interests is probably the biggest benefit I would imagine clubs would offer.

It's interesting to learn more about the changing age groups in clubs. Perhaps they need to build a member-drive plan and push it on places like facebook or wherever it is that the younger folk hang out these days.

I can see the benefit that meetups like the Strollers offer too. Some of the benefits of a club, without the responsibility / overheads / etc... Perhaps that is more the way of the future, though actually taking the step of meeting people that you type to is the most difficult (are they a psycho / vested interest / whatever). You get to learn people are friendly and decent at meetups (trying not to call them "groups") such as the Strollers, then the "non organised club / meeting people on internet" barriers are broken down. You do need to be responsible for yourself though, and I think this is where clubs have both their benefit and their problems. All the liability issues, hence all the rules etc, a certain level of responsibility, insurance, etc. Some would see these things a club offers as a good thing and would prefer to walk in a club, others might just as well be happy to meet a few people that like to walk and tag along with them.
Information on how an inexperienced person might prepare ones self is not hard to find any more, you used to have to either get that info from a Chapman book or a walking club or people you know that are experienced, or go out and make lots of mistakes with gear purchases and incorrect use etc. Now it's all here on the forum.

[Son of a Beach]

I think clubs vary a lot, and can be excellent.

I've only done a couple of club walks but it was a very informal 'club' which didn't actually have a concept of membership. I thoroughly enjoyed both walks, even though we got a bit lost in the fog on one of them.

[Julafreak]

IInformation on how an inexperienced person might prepare ones self is not hard to find any more, you used to have to either get that info from a Chapman book or a walking club or people you know that are experienced, or go out and make lots of mistakes with gear purchases and incorrect use etc. Now it's all here on the forum.

Agreed.

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[Michael_Kingston]

When I was at uni I was a member of the Uni of NSW bushwalking club and loved it. It was laid back, provided me with a chance to meet three other guys willing to ride the Birdsville Track (among other things), and was a way of getting the use of decent gear.

When I moved to Tasmania (Hobart) I went on a couple of walks with a large club (not Tas Uni) and found it to be a less than pleasant experience. One walk was on the Tasman Peninsula and I turned up in volleys (rather than my Scarpas) when every one else had gaiters and boots on (it's really not that wet down there on the Peninsula people). i received a "lecture" on appropriate walking attire and was basically treated like an idiot. It also seemed to be very 'clicky' - if you hadn't been a member for 30 years you really weren't part of the group.

Since then I have either walked alone or with friends.

[PeterJ]

..... When I moved to Tasmania (Hobart) I went on a couple of walks with a large club (not Tas Uni) and found it to be a less than pleasant experience. One walk was ...I received a "lecture" on appropriate walking attire and was basically treated like an idiot. It also seemed to be very 'clicky' - if you hadn't been a member for 30 years you really weren't part of the group.

That is very interesting and I think I can guess the club as it was most likely the one I was once a member of. It had been many years since I had been with on a walk with the club and a friend suggested I go on a walk with them again and said there wasn't going to many on it. Well in turned out to be 15 (which was far too many for me) and I could feel the pressure to conform. I decided that the club did not suit me.

If I had received your treatment I would have been pretty cranky.

[corvus]

Only ever went twice on a walk with a BW Club first and last ,much prefer our "Strollers" type group,no boss no egos nor the need for insurance just mates having a really nice time .
corvus

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[walkinTas]

I agree with comments above - DonQx, tasAdam - the Internet (and this forum) mean that club membership is not as necessary as it once was. Most Club walks and organised walks that I have been on have had a single purpose which involved getting to a set goal in a hurry and then coming back in a hurry. That is not my idea of a good walk in the bush. Like tasAdam I very much prefer to take my time when I walk, take photos and enjoy the surroundings, so I walk alone a lot.

[Robert]

Clubs do ensure safety in numbers and you do get the oppotunity to visit beautiful places that you may not have the confidence to go by yourself, especially for longer trip destinations. It is a great discussion item and reading others point of views is interesting

[Steve]

Its good being in a club, though could be better if I wasn't the only member in my 20s.

[Robert]

Yes, that does make it hard for you Steve. It is easier to settle into a group when ages are more compatable. Don't give up though, those harder walks will come up and be available to you all in good time.

[corvus]

tt

Its good being in a club, though could be better if I wasn't the only member in my 20s.

G'day Steve ,
Not a Club just a group who Stroll together ,our youngest is now 25 and oldest 64 however most are in the 30+40+ age range .
Check out or last Stroll and Pics, Mt Claude Mt Van Dyke and Roland ,we are a happy mad bunch but do take safety seriously .
I am sure you would be most welcome in the BWT Strollers and comfortable in our company.
corvus

[juju]

When I was single twenty five years ago I joined a Sydney bushwalking club and did one overnight with them. A great walk that I was to take various friends on a further seven times in three years. The people in the club were not the friendliest, and I wonder if it's the 'casual' factor - ie no-one gets to know a casual in the workplace until they become permanent as it's not worth putting effort into a friendship when the casual might not be around for long. I think perhaps you have to put in a bit of walking time before people get friendly. I didn't do anymore walks with them. The members of these clubs (20years ago) were 20ish to 30ish.
I also walked once with a Women's bushwalking group - which was the oddest day I've ever spent in the bush! I didn't walk with them again either.
I now walk with friends but they are not into more adventurous and difficult walks, which my son 13 and I would like to do more. I'd feel more safe with a third or fourth along. Have looked into bushwalking clubs recently, walked a couple of times with a local one (mid north coast NSW) and yes, they do seem to have a membership of 60ish to 70ish even. Mind you boy these guys can walk (barefoot Bob's eighty!) - on and on and very spry, but mostly on fire trails and no overnights. Some clubs have a 'trial' period where you have to start on easy walks and progress to hard and carry an overnight pack on a day walk before you're allowed to overnight with them.

[ollster]

I also walked once with a Women's bushwalking group - which was the oddest day I've ever spent in the bush! I didn't walk with them again either.

Oh, please do tell! Seriously, I'm curious.

[Steve]

G'day Steve ,
Not a Club just a group who Stroll together ,our youngest is now 25 and oldest 64 however most are in the 30+40+ age range .
Check out or last Stroll and Pics, Mt Claude Mt Van Dyke and Roland ,we are a happy mad bunch but do take safety seriously .
I am sure you would be most welcome in the BWT Strollers and comfortable in our company.
corvus

I've contemplated tagging along, maybe one day.

[Hobby]

I first joined a club in 1966 and I found that I was about the average member age. Today I find I am still of average member age??????

Clubs are groups of volunteers and you get out of it what you put into it. While some posters have criticised clubs I wonder if they have ever tried fixing what they think is wrong with them. This can only be done from the inside. (being a member and participating)

I believe there has been a major shift from being a participant member to to just being a consumer and expecting someone else to provide and taking no responsibility for one's own welfare and satisfaction in the activity.

Hob

[davidmorr]

I first joined a club in 1966 and I found that I was about the average member age. Today I find I am still of average member age??????

And that's an interesting fact that my club has observed too. We had one of the founder members talk to us a few years ago about the early days of the club (1960s). Someone wondered why there were young people in his pictures, but none in the club now. One fellow offered the fact that the people still in the club had been young people at the time the pictures were taken.

So, is a love of the bush and bushwalking a characteristic of a particular generation which is steadily getting older. And what is it about subsequent generations that made them uninterested in the bush? Playstations, mobile phones, McDonald's?

Clubs are groups of volunteers and you get out of it what you put into it. While some posters have criticised clubs I wonder if they have ever tried fixing what they think is wrong with them. This can only be done from the inside. (being a member and participating)

I cannot help wondering whether the people who found clubs not receptive to them went along expecting people to take them at face value as experienced walkers? We see enough people who think bushwalking is a doddle that we tend to be sceptical of people claiming to be experienced. Most often, they aren't as good as they claim!

I believe there has been a major shift from being a participant member to to just being a consumer and expecting someone else to provide and taking no responsibility for one's own welfare and satisfaction in the activity.

Yes, very true.

My club is actually experiencing a flood of new members attracted to the social aspects of the club. They don't generally do backpacks, but they are keen on day walks and camping. And in fact we have put a lot of effort into encouraging these people to plan and lead walks, offering mentors and other support. Many of them have taken up the challenge and now seek out walks to lead, and are even keen to try out backpacking.

Cheers

David

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[davidmorr]

The question I often wonder is do many club members have a "been there done that want new challenges" outlook not tempered by "I love bushwalking and come with me and I will show you is out there at a level you can enjoy"? I note the social program comments and the success that they have been so maybe I am being a bit harsh in just zeroing in on that comment. Just have a friend that holds the view that "passive aggressive" personalities do seam to abound in bush walking with everything having to be a challenge or competition rather than a means of enjoyment, ie fast, toughest, longest, rather than most enjoyable, relaxing, scenic? Just a thought.

I didn't say anything about the walks they come on. We encourage people to come on a few easier walks until they work out how our rating scheme tallies with their fitness and experience. (We put a lot of effort into our rating scheme.)

We have had passive aggressives join, but they don't stay long. When there is no-one to compete with, it's no fun for them.

Most of us do it for the "enjoyable, relaxing, scenic", and you can also add the social and intellectual aspects. We meet twice a month, and 50-60 people turn up. Our total membership is about 160. There are two or three new faces at every meeting.

And I'd also observe that in any type of organisation, if you are convinced they are all a particular personality type, you will always find them like that, which will justify your not joining....

Cheers

David

[Lindsay]

While I do enjoy a small group walk, generally I consider bushwalking a solo activity, therefore a club is not for me. The idea of 50-60 people making their way through the bush together sends chills down my spine While there are things you could learn from club members, you can also learn things from forums such as this without the crowds and politics of a bushwalking club.

This probably makes me sound like some anti-social recluse but that really isn't the case (I hope )

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

[geoskid]

The idea of 50-60 people making their way through the bush together sends chills down my spine

I think David was referring to 50-60 people present at the twice monthly 'clubroom' meetings.
I happenned to be walking to Mt Beecroft alone when they had there recent day walk there, about 19 or so of them. Had a bit of a chat with a few of them along the way and again up top - seemed like a good bunch.

[Lindsay]

Yes, re-reading Davids post I see thats probably what he means.

[davidmorr]

While I do enjoy a small group walk, generally I consider bushwalking a solo activity, therefore a club is not for me. The idea of 50-60 people making their way through the bush together sends chills down my spine

I said 50-60 *at a meeting*. Walks are as few as four, and average 6-10 on harder walks, 15-20 on easier ones. Some easy and more social events have more.

Going back about 20 years, we used to run a public bushwalking course once a year. Heaps of people came along, and we would sometimes have over 30 people on the daywalks. It took ages to get anywhere. Whenever we had a break, the stragglers would be still arriving when the early ones were itching to move on. Wouldn't do that nowadays.

[davidmorr]

Walking clubs tend to be a bit "objective" focused as typically shown by the photographs, i.e. one at the start, couple during snack break, few at lunch which generally coincides with the objective, and then none until back at the bus. Sometime the trips back have the characteristic of a forced march as the job has been done.

I was told once by a very experienced walker (Sydney Bushwalkers) that it takes about half the time to get back as it does to go to a destination. This is because in the morning, everyone is fresh and interested, stopping to look at things and explore. But once you get there, people are a bit tired, they have seen everything on the way, and just want to get home.

In my experience, it is not half, but it is about 2/3 of the time.

Now about photos. If you want more interesting photos, run a photo comp each year. Have a few categories so that people have to think about pictures with particular types of subjects, eg, plants, landscapes, people. It actually makes the walks more interesting, as you start to look at things that would make a good photo that you might not have bothered with before.