Canyoning - what are people doing for lilos these days?

[skibug]

Hi all,

I know this is not strictly a bushwalking question, though it involves a bushwalk to and from the canyon ;>) I gather there is just no buying the old style durable rubberised lilos that were commonly used 20 years ago for liloing, camping mats and cheap beach mats - so what are people using for canyoning canyons like the Wollongambe these days?

thanks,

Skibug.

[DaveNoble]

Search for "rubberised cotton airbed" on Google. You should get a few merchants including eBay. Eg - https://www.mitchellsadventure.com/5-tube-airbed-ab0000 although ones like this - https://www.budgetcamping.com.au/product/single-quilt-air-bed-with-pillow/ are more stable for paddling (but this one is listed as out of stock, but you may be able to track down some).

[ribuck]

Earlier this year Clarks rubber had the proper rubberized canvas red/blue lilos, but only in 1.2 metre length. Out of desperation, I bought two.

I thought the shorter length would be OK for my wife, who is fairly small, but it was much less stable and the constant rocking made her seasick. On the Wollangambe! Not recommended.

[Lizzy]

Wow 2.1kg- that’s close to a packraft. You’d think there would be something better these days....

[Moondog55]

I did a bit of Li-Lo'ing as a kid and I've thought about this. If packed bulk wasn't a problem can you sew something up using a CCF pad and some pool noodles?
I had a mesh pool floatie here as a PIF a year or two ago and nobody wanted it so I Op-Shopped it Check those out at Clark Rubber too

[oldpiscator]

Talk about a blast from the past. Just looked in a cupboard and found a made in Hungary Palma Li-Lo probably up to 40 yr old. Have inflated it and looks OK so might get some use in the future (but not canyonning).

[johnw]

I bought one (specifically to do the Wollangambe One canyon) about 18 months ago from here http://www.militaryandcamping.com.au/camping-equipment/rubberised-cotton-single-5-tube-air-mattress.html. Currently shows out of stock - I got mine from the physical store in Smithfield, might be a slightly different model, and was a fair bit cheaper then. If convenient might still be worth a call/visit. Also re Dave Noble's post earlier Mitchells have a store in the city. I was in there the other weekend but wasn't looking for lilos, can't say if they have stock but might be worth ringing them.

Wow 2.1kg- that’s close to a packraft. You’d think there would be something better these days....

They're cheap Lizzy , well compared with a packraft at least. And they take a fair bit of abuse, scraping them over rocks etc. When I did the Wollangambe trip a lot of people were using the cheap Big W and K Mart inflatable one man boats. And quite a few were using pool toys, blow up animals etc .

[michael_p]

Xhunter has a 5 tube Lilo for $42: https://xhunter.com.au/products/heavy-d ... d-mattress

This seller is also on Ebay and has this Lilo for $45 inc postage. There is also a 5% off coupon available till 31/12. Link: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Heavy-Duty- ... SwhqhaDkag

A friend of mine grabbed one of the short ones from Clark Rubber. Overall it was well made except for the non-return flap in the valve wasn't cut properly and we had to perform some surgery on it.

Michael.

[michael_p]

www.militaryandcamping.com.au...Smithfield

Is that the place with the green tank out the front. Driven past it and always wanted to stop and go in but I've never had the time.

[Moondog55]

My Li-Lo days were well before CCF pads became cheap and easy to get so the Karrimat was never used for flotation purposes but how would gluing/bonding a CCF pad to that Li-Lo go to protect it from abrasion?
Rolling a CCF pad inside your pack is a standard river crossing technique after all

[johnw]

www.militaryandcamping.com.au...Smithfield

Is that the place with the green tank out the front. Driven past it and always wanted to stop and go in but I've never had the time.

Yes that's the place Michael, worth a look. It's one of those stores with stuff all over the place but had some unusual things that I haven't see elsewhere.
Bought a couple of collapsible Source water bottles last time I visited.

[Wollemi]

No one has answered the OP's Q...
from what I have seen in the past two years on the Wollangambe, more people are using nylon/plastic inflatable lilos.

Almost the same size as a Palma-brand. Faster to inflate, and two are lighter than one cotton-impregnated-rubber type to carry. And if holed, simply dry off with a towel and tape it up. You can't do that with a rubberised lilo.
Easily sourced from the likes of Big-W and K-Mart, a plastic is what I will move to. They are a bit slippery, though.

Skibug refers to lilos as a camping mat - the large air cell always results in cold sleeping, unless car-camping - where you can place a folded blanket on top.

[rcaffin]

Ah, but those Palma Lilos were TOUGH! They could take an awful beating.

LiloJumpS.jpg (82.22 KiB) Viewed 39110 times

My wife like to leap into the Wollangambie off a high rock on hers. Made a lot of noise too!

Cheers
Roger

[DaveNoble]

The Palma brand lilos had a very simple design feature that made them superior to all the modern lilos I have seen - and that was the internal corners were rounded. The modern ones have rectangular corners (on the inside) - and this makes the corner a major stress point that leads to it wearing there quite fast.

Also - I understand the first brand of rubberised cotton air bed sold in Australia was the "Lilo" brand - and that became the generic name.

Dave

[Echidna not]

www.militaryandcamping.com.au...Smithfield

Is that the place with the green tank out the front. Driven past it and always wanted to stop and go in but I've never had the time.

Yes that's the place Michael, worth a look. It's one of those stores with stuff all over the place but had some unusual things that I haven't see elsewhere.
Bought a couple of collapsible Source water bottles last time I visited.

Definitely worth stopping into that shop, some very interesting and bizarre items in there and good prices on some stuff , the guy that owns it loves a good old chin wag.

[jmac]

I used a large number of lilos for river travel (not so much canyoneering) from about 1980 until the availability of the modern packraft in the early 2000s. Over that 20+ year period I also found that the quality of lilos available gradually but significantly deteriorated, as described by others above. The early Eastern European ones were reliable and strong, the Chinese ones of more recent vintage were pretty dismal.

In answer to the question "what are people doing for lilos these days? They're certainly doing packrafts for rivers of any size, but it's not a direct or perfect swap, particularly for tight canyons. Something quick to jump on and off, and hand paddle (such as a lilo) still has a place in your gear room, and occasionally in your rucsac.

A couple of years ago I asked the main people behind the leading brand of packraft to develop a modern lilo-style packraft, a model I'd thought of as "the slab", shaped just like a lilo, with internal baffles and able to be used as a sleeping mat, but made from modern high strength polyurethane coated fabric or Vectran. They're not interested, don't perceive there's sufficient market for it. But I still think it would be fantastic for canyons and for tight small remote streams.

J.

[Echidna not]

Aldi are selling single and double blow up mattresses, they look like what my old surf mat was made of, rubber covered with red cotton fabric .
I don’t know if that’s what people are using for lilos these days, just thought I’d mention it incase your looking to buy .
Similar to what is in the picture above .

[BlackCoulaMtn]

Try Mitchells Disposals. 81 York St Sydney. They had them in stock last year. I know people who bought them through the stores website. Here is a link to the Melbourne store's website

https://www.mitchellsadventure.com/camping

Regards
BCM

[Moondog55]

I remember the cotton really soaking up water and taking an age to dry. Would coating the outside with diluted silicon have any great benefit?
I don't swim so well and I am a natural sinker and in my early years had one or two scary moments, do people now wear a PFD or minimum flotation aid when canyoning / Li-Loing these days?
Those old style airbeds were very comfortable

[jmac]

"do people now wear a PFD or minimum flotation aid when canyoning / Li-Loing these days?"

Depends on what you define as "canyoning/liloing". For tiny streams in small narrow canyons where you just want to float over still pools between rock sections, it's arguable that a full packraft setup may be more a hindrance than a help. This is where something basic like an old-school lilo might still be a useful tool.

For streams any larger than that, these days people should use proper packrafts, pfds and helmets if there is any hint of a rapid. All the equipment is readily available and there is a wealth of information at our fingertips. Packrafting is now a growing global movement, presenting limitless opportunities to combine water travel with foot/bike/ski/whatever for innovative and exciting routes.

If you're interested in exploring the combined wilderness bushwalking and paddling opportunities of packrafting, come to Australia's first international packrafting meetup in January:

https://australianpackraftingmeetup.com/

There's still a few spaces left available to register.

John

[melinda]

Hi Skibug,
I use a cut down pool lounge mattress from toyrus.
I've been using this for a few years now in places like the Wollongambe and the Colo.
Amazing how tough this plastic is!!!
It sits pretty high out of the water so you don't get very wet.
I've had the old red and blue lilos puncture, but this hasn't failed so far.
And much lighter than a traditional lilo.