How do you pack enough gear for 25 day unsupported walk

[Giddy_up]

I have been following and read just about all the information about the failed attempt to walk the New River Route, both good and bad. I've google earthed the terrain and look at all the pictures posted here and on the net of what it is like in there and it looks like hell and like nothing I've seen in my walking. I know Dave is planning another crack at it and he might already have one taker and as such I don't want to debate the rights and wrongs of a second attempt but the sheer scale of this walk is enormous.

People on here who have walked similar terrain do a kilometre a day roughly from what I can gather. Based on that, you might require 25kg of food alone per person just to complete the journey and if the weather turned you could run out. Add to that your need for water under huge duress and then your basic shelter requirements and you end up with a pack weight of more than 35kgs and probably closer to 40kgs. I find that staggering.

So my questions are:

1. How do you carry a backpack in excess of 35kg through this type of terrain for such a sustained period?

2. How much weight is to much for the human body?

3. How would you do this walk, if at all?

For what it's worth, I'm pretty strong and I doubt that I could carry that weight without getting some sort of chronic injury pretty quickly. Especially given the need to do so whilst crawling, sliding, pushing and scrambling. I still can't get my head around it!!!!!!!

G_U





"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[wayno]

you have to condition yourself gradually to carrying that sort of weight and on rough ground.
nepalese are small people and carry massive weights, its part of their normal life...
if you've had a sedentary life in your younger years i wouldnt attempt a trip like that, you'd ideally want years of conditioning to make sure your bones, joints, ligaments, tendons and muscle are all tough enough and up to the strain.... getting fit isnt enough in itself... anyone can get fit in a few weeks but you cant strengthen yourbody properly for that sort of load in that amount of time, injuries most commonly happen in fitness regimes at around the six week mark because people have developed a gereater ability to exert force , but they body hasnt had time to strengthen up to cope with the forces , so all sorts of injuries happen, stress fractures, ruptured and displaced vertebrae, and soft tissue injuries...

[Giddy_up]

I just found this little bit of information.

A Swiss military report suggests that everyone has a backpack weight threshold at which they become significantly more encumbered. They determined this weight by measuring how much it takes for a person's balance-time to degrade by 20%. You can determine your balance-time degradation by measuring the time that you can stand on one foot without your pack, and then compare that to the time you can do so with your pack on. Apparently the Swiss military sought to optimize the performance of 'light fast' special-forces types. They found that for their typical soldier, balance degraded by 20% when wearing a pack weight between 8% and 10% of their lean body weight. The degree to which the pack carrier's balance degrades directly relates to the rate at which they'll become fatigued. This study suggests ways to improve your backpacking experience. The traditional guideline of 25% to 40% given by some how-to books on backpacking would seem quite high by these standards, so you should try to go lighter. Experiment with loading your pack to minimize the degradation of your balance time.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[wayno]

my bad ive asked moderators to delete my previous post, in wrong thread,,,

[Nuts]

Good topic.
How much food though? Will it be a full kg, with dehydrated mostly- maybe 7/800g's?
I'd think 30-35kg would make the chore so much harder from the start.

[wayno]

fat has two and a half times as many calories as carbs or sugar for its weight, i wouldnt suggest going entirely fat for carbs, but it can help offset some of the food weight, everyone varies on how much food they need, the bigger you are the more calories you need, some cope better on less calories than others.... depending on how i feel i've varied from two thid to a kilo of food a day, mainly on carbs with a small amount of fat, i don't go well on high fat diets....

[stepbystep]

These sort of trips were traditionally made with air food drops which is illegal these days. I've packed and carried for 14 days(27kg) and suggest I could have packed enough for 18 if I excluded some luxuries, beyond that I don't think I could make such a trip and carry all the required food/safety equipment I'd want. It is far more difficult to carry large weights when pushing/swinging/falling through thick scrub.

I know of someone that can carry up to 45kg but he has worked up to that level over years and only carries this on tracked walks. And he's a freak! Everybody is different in terms of what their body can carry so it's a bit hard to say how much is too much.

As far as Dave's trip is concerned, I wouldn't bother, there are dozens and dozens of more interesting off track adventures to be had in Tasmania, but each to their own. If I was to do it, it would be in the opposite direction...

The only 20+ day trip I've ever considered(in my dreams) would be YoYo tk - Eastern Arthurs - Western Arthurs - Port Davey tk to Melaleuca - SCT to Prion Beach - exit over Southern Ranges. There are plenty of options to make food/fuel drops in that trip.

[tasadam]

Obviously you would need to allow for rest days of whatever, but on average, how many days from leaving the recognised track at the lagoon, to picking up the next track?
Supply porters at each end?

[GPSGuided]

Any option in eating off the land? What's to eat in that area of Tassie if hunting/fishing/gathering is allowed?

[stepbystep]

Any option in eating off the land? What's to eat in that area of Tassie if hunting/fishing/gathering is allowed?

Apparently there is good trout in NRL. I suspect the time and effort involved would be more than counter productive. No hunting/guns allowed in the WHA(thankfully). Other bush tucker would require very specific knowledge and shouldn't be encouraged in the WHA either.

[GPSGuided]

Sounds like elvan Lembas bread is needed for these trips.

[Giddy_up]

The food weight is the killer here I think, allowing 25kgs of food with no contingency allocation is huge.

Here is a link on what food is required per day to haul a 50kg sled across the Patagonia Ice Pack.

http://www.ousland.no/trips/patagonia-2013/#tab_5

I googled the products and the total dry weight is about 0.600g a day, which sounds a little light on in that cold weather, but these guys do it for a living so they should know.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[frenchy_84]

Dave may be able to shed some light on his plan and itinery but I think you are a fair bit off regarding days/food needed and the total pack weight for the trip. I would have thought total pack weight would be 20-30kgs depending on the groups decision regarding light weight/durability.

Jmac and Matt have a lot of experience in this kind of terrain and they manage to carry many kilos of camera gear as well as everything else that is necessary to survive. But they are also ridiculously fit as well.

[Giddy_up]

Dave may be able to shed some light on his plan and itinery but I think you are a fair bit off regarding days/food needed and the total pack weight for the trip. I would have thought total pack weight would be 20-30kgs depending on the groups decision regarding light weight/durability.

Jmac and Matt have a lot of experience in this kind of terrain and they manage to carry many kilos of camera gear as well as everything else that is necessary to survive. But they are also ridiculously fit as well.

Good point frenchy_84,

I did just use rough numbers that I cobbled together on google earth. As best as I can measure it, its around 25km from the top of the lagoon to Federation Peak and I just took a punt on average daily rate of travel. Not withstanding though its still a lot of days in terrible conditions and you would have to plan on getting bad weather somewhere in that trip that would slow or stall progress. You also have to walk in and out either end as well so that adds another week of travel. I'm Not sure how you will get that food weight down?


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[stepbystep]

Could be wrong but I seem to remember Dave had thought it would be 21-22 days total??

[frenchy_84]

Well with the fitness needed to do a trip like this it should only take 2 days to get past cavern camp and one day from federation to the carpark, so that's 3 days plus 25kms of puss. How hard can it be?

[Giddy_up]

Well with the fitness needed to do a trip like this it should only take 2 days to get past cavern camp and one day from federation to the carpark, so that's 3 days plus 25kms of puss. How hard can it be?

I will wait for your trip report to find out............


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[frenchy_84]

Haha not a chance to many nice walks to do first not to mention they are going in the wrong direction.

[David M]

nepalese are small people and carry massive weights, its part of their normal life...

It is not without a significant health impact. No matter how acclimatised they are to these loads, the human body is simply not built to handle them without significant wear and tear. See also an article about portering here http://www.himalayanclub.org/journal/lo ... lu-khumbu/

[GPSGuided]

It is not without a significant health impact. No matter how acclimatised they are to these loads, the human body is simply not built to handle them without significant wear and tear. See also an article about portering here http://www.himalayanclub.org/journal/lo ... lu-khumbu/

Not too different to so many rugby players and elite athletes. By the time when age catches up to them, the long string of health problems.