Bogong "rescue"????

[andrewa]

Saw article in Age today about a chap on Bogong who been "holed" up in Cleve Cole and unable to get off due to weather. Article says he rang police, who have subsequently effected a rescue, or something to that effect.

Presuming the report is reasonably accurate..........!........I'm amazed that anyone going up Bogong at this time of year would not contemplate the possibility of being stuck for a day or two in bad weather, and would have facility to accommodate this - ie, if stuck in bad weather, perfectly reasonable to ring your NOK/ work and explain that you may be a day or two late home, but to ring the police and effect a rescue, when you are safe in a hut......?

How do people think about this? We had a family chat this evening about all this. Somewhere the sense of personal responsibility seems to have gone out the window, and that is such a strong reason for spending time in the "bush" in the first place. Aren't we spending time in the wilds to get away from everything - or have I lost something here? I remember trips out onto the Main Range in Winter 20yrs ago, when we had no facility to contact anyone for a week, unless we skied /walked back to civilization. We survived. Again and again and again.

A

[alanoutgear]

[corvus]

Understand where you are coming from it is too easy to call up for rescue however better a weak reason for rescue than a death I believe. I can remember an incident 50 years ago when one of our party fell down a cliff ,we descended to the riverbed checked out his injury (he really complained),constructed a litter out of branches and coats carted him across the river and up a really steep slope to the nearest Farm House (he was a heavy bod too) turned out he had only badly bruised his back and could well have walked out !! we were miffed but "did a rescue" and learned a lot,better to be safe then sorry .
What price a Life
corvus

[Strider]

And here is the article....

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/snows ... 20z7u.html

[andrewa]

Yep, read the article several times. Isn't that what Cleve Cole is there for??? Sort of- it is a long way from the summit.....top of Staircase/is where a lot of the problems seem to happen, in my viewpoint.

Over my years, I've prob been up Bogong 50 times in winter., over weekends. My opinion is that you just have to accept crap weather, and deal with it. It's a remote mountain. Don't exect help.

Nowadays, I rarely go over to Cleve Cole on weekend trips, as it may compromise the trip home. I normally camp at the junction of Eskdae and Granite Flat sour, which alllows a rapid egress if weather is crap. It's all in the planning of the weekend ( and having some backup).

A

[TerraMer]

I always wonder what the full story is when I read about rescues. Sometimes it's just inexperience on the part of the hiker/s, sometimes it's fear especially if the hiker is not used to being out alone and is unfamiliar with the area and sometimes police and search and rescue rush in without full details of the situation. I know of several situations over the last 10 years in the mountains where hikers who didn't need rescuing, who were simply notifying emergency services of their delayed return and they were okay, were forced to evacuate at the risk of emergency services crew. Another ridiculous situation was a group of very experienced hikers had one injured group member who needed evacuation but the entire group was forced to leave against their will and they were reported to national news by SES as irresponsible and inexperienced.
From my personal experience working in search and rescue, there are a lot of rescuers who over estimate their fitness, abilities and their own survival skills. I've watched teams put themselves at risk while completely failing to execute a rescue. When I lived in the national park I watched the winter police training in the mountains and not one single officer managed to get even remotely close to the rescue site and it wasn't even in snow.
I need to know more about the hiker/skier's situation before I can make judgement on whether they did or didn't need rescuing, if they asked to be rescued, just asked for help or simply tried giving a sitrep to an over-excitable officer.
Most of us know how and why to use our EPIRBs/PLBs or making an emergency call from out phones but not everyone does. For the untrained and inexperienced recreationalist this could have felt like a life and death situation.
Corvus is right, it is better to respond to an urgent situation with emergency potential rather than wait for a full blown emergency with potential loss of life. To use another emergency example, would you feel better having been to hospital with severe chest pain only to find out it was gas or die at home of an heart attack assuming the pain will pass? You may feel like a fool later but at least you're still alive.
When we make judgement on these things we need to remember everybody's ability to improvise and cope in any given situation can vary a great deal, just as the person who makes the call to launch a rescue may measure the seriousness of the situation on a different scale.

[Son of a Beach]

Once the situation becomes an emergency, for whatever reason, then calling police and effecting a rescue is the sensible thing to do.

However, people ought to take responsibility in the preparation of bushwalks to minimise the possibility of such emergencies from occurring. In particular, when walking to a snow-prone area in winter, people should be prepared with enough gear and supplies to last a bit longer than the actual trip plan, in case the trip doesn't go according to plan. It's pretty basic stuff.

I can't be sure if there was more to this particular case or not, or even if he really did request a rescue, but it is disappointing in some cases when people put themselves at risk to the point of needing rescue which could have been easily avoided with a little forethought.

[Earwig]

Once the situation becomes an emergency ...

I have been 'stuck' on a mountain because bad weather set in. It sounds similar to this case (based on what has been reported - the tructh may be different) but it wasn't what I would have called an emergency becasue I was aware bad weather could happen and prepared for it with a bit of extra food and so on.

One of the wonders of mobile phones is that it can be easier to call for help than take responsibility for a situation.

[Earwig]

http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/82452/no-snowshoes-no-skis-and-no-idea/?c=15

Now we know what the rescuers thought about the situation!

[andrewa]

Um, maybe there need to be questionaires at the base of Bogong etc and a magic password to get through a locked gate?

Or just believe in Darwin's survival of the fittest theory?

It's really sad if places like Bogong need a sign stating that if you're going up there in winter you need either snow shoes, skis or crampons ( or all of the above, which is what we always take). There's also a good argument for an ice axe, but I don't take one, hoping that self arrest stocks will be sufficient. Having just thought about what I've written, i think I'll find a light weight axe. I'd hate to be coming down the top of the Eskdale/Staircase when it was iced up, although stocks and crampons should get you down.

A

[jimmyharris]

I've just arrived back from Mount Bogong and met the police and Tim on their way down Eskdale Spur yesterday morning. Time was uninjured and able to walk down without help (other than snowshoes and crampons provided by the police no doubt). Conditions were shockingly icy but visibility was very good and there was only a light wind blowing.

From reading his entry in the Cleve Cole hut (I stayed their last night) it sounds like he had a bad time on Saturday and Sunday and was probably in a panicked state when he called the police. He was perfectly safe at the hut with water, (some) food and fuel but it would have been very difficult to leave without snowshoes or crampons (of which I understand he had neither).

The police questioned me about my gear on the way up which is completely understandable given that there were already escorting one person down. I had MSR Lightning Ascent snowshoes which were great but I wouldn't have wanted to be climbing in something less aggressive like Yowies. The whole mountain was one big ice cube after the recent rain froze over.

[capelsound]

Terramer,
I think your comment about "over excited officers" is pretty disrespectful and somewhat naive. The problem police have is that if the bloke a Cleve cole rings for help and the police say "just hold tight and wait for the weather to turn" and he dies for some reason then the coppers will be hung out to dry. This is a problem with society in general. Commonsense does not come into it any more. The family will blame the police, the media will say the police did nothing while the 'poor man' froze to death, the coroner will recommend that hikers should walk in pairs and the fat beer swilling, chip eating couch surfer will laugh at us all.

[Ent]

Calling for rescue is not an easy call and I am with Corvus. Much rather get the person home safe and sound and leave it up to the rescue services to make any comment. Also I am am happy for a trained and familiar with the terrain professional rescuer (not a call centre operator) to make the decision on what is the appropriate plan for rescue.

Given all the above it appears that the person made a bad judgment call and as a friend is fond of saying, "if you can not be an example then at least be a warning to others" and the latter role he has succeeded. Winter has hit and recommended walking time have gone out the window. My personal experience is what that takes minutes in summer can take hours in winter depending on the snow conditions. And also snow can make for faster progress over scree but that is something that a person only familiar with an area can make a judgement call on.

Cheers

[Miyata610]

His call to 000 may have been to ask for advice. It could be that he was with a telephone company that had no coverage, so 000 may have been his only choice for communication.

The article that quotes the police rescuers is interesting. Clearly they think an ice axe is an essential piece of kit. Forum members have already admitted to hiking in alpine areas without carrying one.

[matagi]

“But he phoned triple-0 about 2.30pm on Sunday to say visibility was poor, there were strong winds and he couldn’t get down,” he said.

Nowhere in the article does it say he asked for help. It is implied in the above sentence, but he could just as easily have been calling to let someone know he was delayed and possibly (ironically) to avoid a rescue team being mobilised.

[jimmyharris]

Judging from Tim's log book entry in the hut, he was in a panicked state and I believe he did ask for rescue. To respect his privacy, I won't repeat too much of the entry (you'll have to go to CCH to read it), but he does talk about ...if the worst happens...and...last thoughts...which indicates to me he wasn't thinking clearly given the comfort and safety of where we was.

Visibility was great on Tuesday when he was walked out, so navigation would not have been a problem. The fact that he was lacking snowshoes or crampons (and possibly his mental state) was the only thing stopping him walking out on his own.

[trule10]

Hi everyone, Tim here, the ill-equipped hiker as one report put it. I had no idea my hike would create such a story. I'm glad some of the guys who went up after I had just come down were able to post about the icy conditions. The plateau and rideges down were a sold block pretty much, well they were at least for the time I was up there (may have thawed and melted a littl ein the sun on Tuesday). It's true that I did not have snow shoes which was a bad error and that without the ones Police Search and rescue had supplied I most likely would not have made it down, at least not on the Tuesday when the weather was conduscive to doing so. I am an experienced hiker and I only say that to clarify that I was not someone simply fgoing off half-cocked with no idea. But yes, I concede I underestimated the ice - I guess this was on the basis that I have done the same hike before in Winter with no problems. I don't think I was complacent, just made a poor judgement call. But it was the wind on top that made me call 'ooo. I have never experienced wind like that and I'll be frank, it was terrifying. I was blown over several times and really all I wanted to do was sit down and turn my back as just balancing was incredibly tiring, let alone walking. But wind the wind chill it would have been quite a few below on top and I think hypothermia would not have been far away had I chosen that option, although I was well-prepared in terms of having good warm clothing. So when I reached the hut I was pretty psyched out I'll admit, hence what i wriote in the log (love to partner and family 'just in cae' - that sort of thing). I guess it is fair to say I wasn't thinking 100% straight. Did some walks out toward Cairn Ck hut and back up to the top of the plateau over the course of Sunday and Monday but wind was still strong and snow deep and I was I'll admit gun shy after the experience of Saturday. I feel pretty humbled, a little stupid but I guess I made probably 2 poor decisions, or perhaps one poor decision (not to take snow shoes) and one poor judgement (about the weather) which I had studied before I left but I just misjudged it - badly. But the other decisions I made were good ones - to keep going through the blizzard, to ring 'ooo and wiat in the hut. Yes, I agree, we do need take responsibility for ourselves when we undertake these activities and for 20 or so years of hiking and trekking I have done that and never had to rely on anyone else. Hopefully, I won't again and I have certainly learnt some lessons. One person commented that if you can't set an example, be an example. Hopefully, at least I've done that, even if only for myself and maybe for others so the media attention will hopefully turn out to be positive thing. I feel lucky and very thankful that PSand R were available and willing to help me. At the end of the day, they told me that escorting a live hiker out on his own 2 feet was much easier and required far less resources than looking for a body somewhere and carrying or sledding it out. Sadly, they indicated that for many of their callouts, this is often what they are required to do. Be safe everyone, Tim Rule

[muddy99]

Me & my mate were on Bogong that Saturday. We went up Eskdale and down the Staircase. We saw a line of single footprints (sans snowshoes) coming up off the staircase, heading in CC direction. We commented on it because it looked like they totally ignored the summit. Visibility was just OK for about an hour that we were above Micehell Hut, but started to detiorate as we were descending. There was a lot of snow, and a really strong wind coming from the west. We didn't have snowshoes, but probably could have done with them. Normally dropping off the summit onto the Staircase offers some protection from the wind, but not that day. There were quite a few other people around, 1 guy with snowshoes we passed on Eskdale, looked like he went to the top of the pole line then returned. There was a solo guy with skies near the top of the Staircase, and two more young ice-climbers snow-camping near Pollux. A group of 4 tourists (Germans?) were planning on staying at Bivouac, and we passed two separate couples just out for the day, though both were making fairly late climbs, and both would have ended up coming out in the dark if they'd pushed to the top. The amazing thing when we got to the bottom, was how few people actually used the intentions book - just the ice climbers, us, and one of the couples. I've attached two shots to illustrate visibility and snow cover. One is from the summit ridge, you can just make out the Staircase pole turn-off in the bg. The other is from Eskdale.

[Son of a Beach]

Hi everyone, Tim here, the ill-equipped hiker as one report put it...

Thanks, Tim, for having the guts to come on here after all the criticism and offer us the opportunity to learn from your experiences.

It's also fantastic to hear the inside perspective from the horses mouth, so to speak. We often hear of rescue stories on here, but we very rarely get an explanation of what really happened - usually just the media beat ups.

[matagi]

I have been blown off my feet by wind. I was on Hamilton Island at the time, so the temperature was much milder, but I vividly recall the experience. One minute I was upright, next minute I was on my hands and knees wondering what on earth had just happened. It was not a pleasant experience and I was in the relatively civilised surroundings of the Hamilton Island marina. I cannot imagine what it would be like on top of a mountain in the conditions Tim would have been experiencing.

[andrewa]

Thx, Tim for the 1st hand response. A rare occurrence!

Bogong (and Feathertop) can be scary mountains in winter. The tops of the Staircase and Eskdale can seem v exposed, particularly when icy and visibility is down. It's a long way to slide if you miss your footing and it's icy. It's one of the reasons I nowadays always camp on the top of Eskdale, so I know ill get back down, as , in my early years on Bogong, we have had some pretty unpleasant trips back across the top on Sundays.

You had some bad luck. Whilst I do carry the full kit in winter, I've only ever had to use instep crampons once (when climbing out of Cairn gully! - before I had snow shoes), but I do remember once watching ( from Eskdale/Granite Flat) some skiers have a really horrible time coming back to their camp at Castor/Pollux after freeze up at 4.30/5.00pm. I was so relieved when they made it back to their tent without taking a long slide.

Enjoy your winter.

Andrew A

[trule10]

Thanks for the pics Muddy99, it provides some idea of the wind storm that was building up on the plateau. I can assure you it continued to deteriorate. I had actaully traversed below the staircase ridgeline to avoid the wind that was buffetting the ridge. I mistakenly thought that wind was only coming down the valley and hitting the ridge but that it would be better once up on the plateau. Unfortunately, once up top and finding the wind many times stronger, it seemed too dangerous to then turn around and try to descend the ridge hence ploughing on into a worsening storm. A lesson learned the hard and scary way, but a lesson learned none the less.

[corvus]

G'day trule10 ,
Despite all it is really good you were able to post your response and who amongst us have never made an error of judgment.
corvus

[Pongo]

Thanks for dropping by Tim.
I can happily report that I'll take something from you trials as I'm new to this hiking caper. Great you weren't harmed and now you have a great pub story to tell.

[Ent]

Hi Tim

Great to read your report and more importantly that you could write it. Conditions sounded rather average to understate in typical Aussie style. Anyway full marks to Search and Rescue. Me thinks you might be happy to buy a few raffle tickets from them but do not expect to win a prize as you have likely used up most of your luck for the next couple of years.

Cheers

[jimmyharris]

Tim, thanks for posting here and glad you made it out safely. I was the the last person you would have passed coming down Eskdale Spur with the police. You said something like "I could have done with you guys being at the hut earlier" - at the time I had no idea what you meant as I wasn't aware of what had happened until I chatted with two others at Cleve Cole Hut that night. It all makes sense now!

[bernieq]

Thanks, Tim – good on you - both for your survival and for your posts detailing the experience. Certainly, a hard way to learn a lesson.

I would think many others have ventured into the winter alpine environment without snow-shoes/ice axe/crampons – me included and a certain State Tourisim Minister too :)