Mt Bogong rescue

[icefest]

About the only extra equipment they could have taken is avalanche airbags - and I don't know of anyone in Australia taking them.

Is upsetting to see how even well prepared boarders can be taken unaware. My condolences to the families and to the child.

[perfectlydark]

Sad news. Cant say they did anything wrong though. 'It happens' as forest gump would say

[bushy123]

I feel a bit concerned that some may view this as just plain ‘unlucky’. From a couple of decades in adventure sports eg skydiving, when deaths are analysed, bad luck does not often seem to play a part. I am just trying to help prevent future problems.

Going over the 4 points previously mentioned

S lope:
Were they carrying and using a slope meter to help them stay on less than 30 degree slopes, especially as there was

N ew snow:
From the general weather there seemed to be a lot of fresh snow around; were they on this?

O ne at a time:
Did they snowboard one at a time with the first finding a ‘safety island’; was there one in the area? It was good they had a beacon, but would have needed to keep apart for one to be able to rescue the other.

W ind driven snow:
There were high winds in the general area; snow dumped was likely to be unstable; again local knowledge would help on this.

(The headings form the word S N O W, just to help remember the points. These do not cover everything, but provide the basics)

The following seems to be one of the best web sites about avalanche awareness, with some short videos of skiers being caught in avalanches; presumably they got out OK..

http://www.fsavalanche.org/Default.aspx ... ntLinkId=2

I thought it would be good keeping all this in mind so we are on the lookout for any bits of information that may come out soon; otherwise it probably might be a long time to a coroner’s report, which we might miss.

[icefest]

I very much agree with you, bushy123. Preventing these disasters is important.
As far as the SNOW acronym goes,

Few skiiers/boarders ski on <30° slopes,
Powder tends to hang around for a very short time in Aus.
One at a time. Nothing else to say. If they were both caught in the same avalanche then it is unlikely they had followed this.
Wind driven snow, even less to say, other than what you've said already.

From an academic point of view, I really would like to know which gully they were in.

[bushy123]

Thanks for the positives icefest.

Obviously most skiers snowboarders etc would be on steeper than 30 deg slopes, if they are in the groomed areas or near the frequented ski slopes. It becomes a worry if they treat deep new snow in remote areas the same way.

[sim1oz]

So sad
Are more people skiing and snowboarding backcountry this year? Or because we seem to have more snow this year than we have for a while. I've never been aware of so many searches and fatalities before. It could be because we are planning to join MD in August and so I'm thinking a lot about safety, especially if our 8&10yo come along.

Not that we are planning to go anywhere 'really dangerous' with our kids but all the advice above is appreciated. I think I'll pick up this snow study kit while I'm away: http://www.rei.com/product/807502/backcountry-access-snow-study-kit#specsTab. MD can give our family some lessons on snow and safety... I'll put the cost down to science education.

[andrewa]

Like Icefest, I'd really like to know what gully they were skiing.

I've never carried a "slope meter"....we have often just skied the steepest slope that was "suitable" for the day....which is a poorly defined term. I've skied the gullies off the East side of where Eskdale and Granite Flat spur join, and off the east of the upper Eskdale spur, but I've normally been focused on whether they were icy, and the risk of sliding to death, rather than the avalanche risk. Now is a good time to refocus on all this, as avalanche risk has not really crossed my mind much on Bogong, despite about 60 winter trips over 25 yrs (seen one lot of avalanche debris over this time).

My personal feelings are that they were unlikely to have been taken out boarding down the gully, but more likely to have set off a slide when walking up....

A

[DarrenM]

It's been a fairly good start to the season Sim1oz in terms of snow depth. Consistent fronts with lots of wind which has deposited snow in larger than usual amounts in a shorter time frame. The storms are very normal during an average season but have come with more consistency this year.
Providing you have a decent weather forecast and aren't skiing or boarding steeps in the more prone areas, you will be fine.

Understanding the snowpack is an art and by digging around camp you can build up a very basic idea of the layering that occurs with each new weather event. It's fun and can help you learn more about snow conditions that have occurred before your arrival.

[GPSGuided]

What's the rule there at Mt Bogong? Off piste skiing/boarding allowed? Is it a defined ski area or anything goes area?

[neilmny]

Mt Bogong is not a resort mountain so it's all back country skiing and boarding.

[north-north-west]

Like Icefest, I'd really like to know what gully they were skiing.

I ran into one of these chaps up Bogong a couple of years ago. At that stage they were tackling this area:

Plenty of potential for disaster given the amount of snow up there currently.

[andrewa]

That must have been Spring NNW. Too many rocks showing!

These photos were from end Sept/early Oct last year...

[GPSGuided]

NNW, what explains the two shades of snow in your photos? Never seen anything like it. Muddy snow comes closest but can't imagine it'd be that patchy and in that pattern.

[icefest]

I suspect, from the winds forecast over the weekend that they might have been on one of the east facing gullies off of eskdale.

I'm sure that the information will be released, come time. Just like the other two previous avalanche deaths described at cleve cole hut.

[north-north-west]

NNW, what explains the two shades of snow in your photos? Never seen anything like it. Muddy snow comes closest but can't imagine it'd be that patchy and in that pattern.

Wind-blown silt from the exposed patches up top. It was September, fair bit of clear ground over on Audax and Lendenfeld.

[Azza]

There is a lot to the whole avalanche thing. More than just the factors of angle, accumulation and wind loading.
I've done a bit of mountaineering and they teach you this stuff in the courses.

Temperature affects the formation of snow crystals and different conditions can affect how the snow bonds together. Then you need to consider the already existing layers of snow.
You might get a freeze the snow will ice up, and then you get fresh snow on top of a layer of hard snow / ice.
Go through a few weather cycles combined with some melting and consolidation, a large dump of fresh snow can create a layer of loose ready to slide stuff on top.
Then a warm day can loosen everything up.
Given time the layers can bond together better and thus the risk decreases.
Then there are different types of avalanche - from memory the slab avalanche is the nastiest where a big chunk breaks off, they are larger in volume. A loose snow avalanche is like sand sliding, but it can still build up.

As DarrenM says normal practice is to dig a pit to analyse the layers of snow. So if you find layers that aren't well bonded, then its probably a good idea to play it safe.
In Australia we really don't get hit with enough snow most of the time to create dangerous conditions so most people are unaware of the dangers or think that this kinda thing only happens on real mountains.
So its really easy to ignore the risks and think well that won't happen here.

[GPSGuided]

So many technical factors. Sounds like that for most, it's a case of avoiding the main factors and hopefully reduce one's risk. To get to zero, can only get off the mountain.

[GBW]

It seems that "bad luck" plays a big part in this type of accident...like walking along a track and a tree falls on you...no matter how experienced you are, if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time there's not much you can do about it.

[GPSGuided]

Might of Mother Nature is to be respected. Soon I'll start to get into those Dreamtime tales.

[bushy123]

Thanks andrewa: 60 visits over 25 years; that puts things in perspective a bit; why would you change what you do? I guess I would have just said 'yeeha!' and gone down the slopes as I had done for the last couple of decades. You must have thought 'that could have been me'? I agree about the ice too; scary stuff.

Well, as they prophesied over 20 years ago with climate change, we are to see more extremes with weather; we've noticed it with the heat; maybe this another effect with the cold...

PS: Thanks for the photos too, and NNW

[icefest]

Well, as they prophesied over 20 years ago with climate change, we are to see more extremes with weather; we've noticed it with the heat; maybe this another effect with the cold...

I doubt it. It's more likely that we've gotten used to crappier snows and rainy slush, so that a season of what was once average seems record breaking.

In fact, it's been warmer than the long term average:


Here is a comic describing what you're feeling: